Another obscure topic from the bubbling and seething depths of obsucrity...
In the article "Thus Spake Gary Gygax: Ye Secrets of Oerth Revealed" (Oerth Journal 12 pp. 3-11), Gary indicates that some dread manifestation of the EEG was located in the depths of the ToEE (in his original version [which apparently included many more levels], EEG was excised due to "heftiness" before being handed over to Mssr. Mentzer).
If such was the case, how does Tzuggtmoy fit in? Is she interested in siphoning off power from the EEG? Does she have some sort of agreement with EEG? Gary indicates that releasing the EEG would counter the release of Tzuggtmoy, why?
I suspect that Tzuggtmoy (what a great name for a demon!) was attracted to the shards of the EEG because she (and her followers) could get an awesome amounts of power for a trifle (whats a few more human sacrifices to a demon princess?) i.e., a great amount of bang for her buck. With the power she gets from the EEG, she can create her empire on the Prime, thus incresing her status in the Abyss.
If the EEG is released, I suppose he would take Tzuggy to task for "using" him for his power and not trying to release him?
What do you crazy canonfire cats think?
I know my pet pixie likes the soft tasty goodness of the marshmellows in Lucky Charms cereal, especially the blue diamonds, and could care less for the crunchy part, if you catch my drift...
FL _________________ Nixiespixies and grigs OH MY!
Zuggtmoy does not know about the EEG. The temple is built on the location of an ancient EEG temple of some sort. The EEG shrine where he could end up being released was to be located in a secret location on deeper levels that didn't make the published version. The original idea was that if the PCs would end up releasing Zuggtmoy, they could check her power, and save their own a$$es, by also releasing the EEG.
Scott
First off, you are a fountain of information that sustains many of us lesser canoneers, and don't forget that you are appreciated tremendously.
Second, hot dogg
Third, (free association to follow) Suppose our pal Iuz, in the late CY 490's was turned on to the exsistance of the shards/old temples of the EEG by his minions that have been scouring the width and breath of Oerth for powerful magic (this is stated in Iuz the Evil or somewhere else, can't remember). Iuz recognizes the chance to gain power from these sites. The most powerful site however was already "staked out" by some Tzugg worshippers. Iuz teams up with Tzugg (who is unaware of the former EGG temple/shard) to create the ToEE, making it possible for Iuz to access the hidden EEG temple, using Tzugg as a pawn. As things stand in 579CY, Iuz is in a great position: Tzugg is trapped and Iuz has free reign to access the power of the EEG. I would guess that the ToEE site is very important to Iuz (he has sent a powerful minion, Hedrack, and invested gold in rehabing the major temple) who may or may not realize the importance of the EGG temple.
If the PC's release Tzugg, she already knows about Iuz's deceits--He has not lifted a finger to help her, and she knows that he is after something at the ToEE site (perhaps including the EEG temple). She would be very angry. If Tzugg is fully released, she will prolly destroy slay everything in her path, and make her way to the EEG temple. The only thing for Iuz to do, and avoid having to deal with an irate demon princess, is to "kill" her--by releasing the EEG(!) or should I say the PC's release the EEG, keeping Iuz's paws clean (providing ultimate deniability) and causing moral problems when the PC's finally patch themselves together after that Armageddon.
Other powers may be VERY interested in this; Cuthbert and a host of others.
What do you Canoneers think?
Your Fairylover
PS ScottyG, have you ever seen the original EGG ToEE manuscript? _________________ Nixiespixies and grigs OH MY!
Thanks for those kind words Fairylover.
My view of Iuz and the ToEE is a little different:
First, I’ve changed the timeline a bit. Iuz and Zuggtmoy first conceived of the ToEE before Iuz was imprisoned. Together they create the Orb of Golden Death. Before moving forward, Iuz is captured by Zagyg. At the time of his imprisonment, Iuz is in possession of the Orb, and has it hidden away for safe keeping. It’s hidden away so well, that even Zuggtmoy doesn’t know where it is. With the sudden disappearance of her ally, and the loss of the Orb, Zuggtmoy puts the Temple plans on hold. Years later, in the 560s, one of her followers locates the Orb, and Zuggtmoy decides to move ahead with the Temple without Iuz.
The location for the Temple was originally chosen for two reasons. First, strategic, it needs to be in a location that will draw forces away from Iuz’s borders. Second, Nulb, the presence of an existing evil community makes it much easier to establish the temple and attract followers. What Iuz and Zuggtmoy don’t know is that evil folk are drawn to the place by some evil pulse emanating from the long forgotten temple of the EEG.
Iuz’s main interest with the Temple is drawing forces from Furyondy and Veluna south and away from his southern border. From the very beginning he wanted the ToEE to fail since he didn’t want to contend with another powerful demonic kingdom on the Flanaess.
In 570 CY, Iuz is released. The following years are spent reconsolidating his holdings, and then preparing for war. The Temple is now the perfect tool. With little investment, he can turn the ToEE into the threat to Furyondy and Veluna that he needs it to be, and with Zuggtmoy bound, there will be little trouble in sweeping the Temple away after his conquest of the good nations to the north.
Into this mix come true followers of the EEG.
It is noted in the text of T1-4 that after the first fall of the ToEE, many drow visited the Temple. This happens to be around the same time that far to the south and deep underground, Eclavdra’s plans were ruined. Eclavdra and her followers are forced to flee the Vault. They make their way to the location of one of the EEG’s temples, only to find a new temple built on the site. They feign loyalty to the Temple, but still venerate the EEG, and secretly establish a small cult within the ranks of the Temple followers. They also discover, or create, an entrance to the shrine of the EEG that lies deeper than the lowest level of the ToEE.
What happened to the Drow? Either Iuz chased them out, but their cult still has followers, or they are still there and Iuz and the Temple leaders know about them, and believe they are true devotees. In the latter case, the drow may be on a secret level the Temple leaders know about, but the presence of an additional level, where the shrine of the EEG is located, is still unknown to the powers of the ToEE.
Most of Gary’s ‘manuscript’ made it into T1-4. The problem is, the manuscript wasn’t very complete. When Gary was writing the temple, he was staying one step ahead of the low level party he was DMing it for. Then along came Robilar, who bulled ahead, forcing the action much faster than Gary had expected. Gary had notes and ideas, but for the most part, he was winging Robilar’s adventure in the Temple.
Scott
Yes, the EEG is imprisoned. Originally, Gygax planned to have the EEG released as part of the climax of the GD series, but the final adventure was given to someone else. Then he was going to have the EEG released in the ToEE, but he never got around to finishing the adventure, and the idea was dropped when FM finished the project.
Scott
But can we claim that the EEG (or one of the EEGs) is possible to had been imprisoned beneath ToEE given Greyhawk orthodoxy as defined by Greyhawk sources like GDQ series for instance? _________________ "It is easier to milk a cow that stands still." Tzeliobas-Aristomenes, General Cleaning, Greyhawk Construction Company.
But can we claim that the EEG (or one of the EEGs) is possible to had been imprisoned beneath ToEE given Greyhawk orthodoxy as defined by Greyhawk sources like GDQ series for instance?
I'm not claiming anything myself, just passing along Gary's original idea.
Scott
Scotty, thats some fascinating information and certainly helps tie together some of the campaign themes. You have some great inside info., any steer on how EGG intended to progress Greyhawk. Any thoughts would be welcome as I have had to chance to meet or discuss this with the maestro himself, being rooted in the UK.
Well, there were quite a few adventures planned, most of which are common knowledge. As far as the direction of the campaign, Gary was planning his own Greyhawk Wars, as was obvious from Dragon Articles, and the story line started in Isle of the Ape. Gary shared his plans for the war, but I can't find where I saved them. I know that Iuz, the Horned Society, and the Fists were going to be allies. I think there may have been some nomads, or one of the Baklunish nations as an ally as well. Mordenkainen's forces were to see some action also, emerging from the Obsidian Citadel on Iuz's western front. Robilar was to be involved too, but I don't recall how since he lost everything after the ToEE adventure.
Rob K. was responsible for events in the east, and the war that had just started there, but never fully developed.
Scott
Scott thanks for the update. Some interesting thoughts regarding EGG's own take on a Greyhawk Wars storyline. I remember the early Dragon articles which dealt almost exclusively with military issues in the Flanness... I'll probably start a thread regarding some of the potetial outcomes of this.
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