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    Canonfire :: View topic - R.I.P. Carl Sargent (Sept 12, 2018)
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    R.I.P. Carl Sargent (Sept 12, 2018)
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    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Barony of Trellwood, The Great Kingdom

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    Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:30 pm  
    R.I.P. Carl Sargent (Sept 12, 2018)

    It is with a sad heart I bear the news that Carl L. Sargent passed on Sept 12, 2018. His sister has reached out to several folks in the Greyhawk community and Michelle Toscan has posted up in the Canonfire! Facebook group about it. Drew Griffiths was able to track down the obit (which matched the date given by Carl's sister).

    I think it is safe to say that Carl Sargent was the 2nd greatest influence on the World of Greyhawk setting after Gary Gygax. His work was built upon by such folks as Roger Moore, Sean K. Reynolds, and not a few members of this body.

    Here is a link to his obit:
    https://www.funeralzone.co.uk/obituaries/53734?fbclid=IwAR0M6vS-44kYAC0Dp-pHG_O4WoWMMgxh2zr6FNJlYekDRg-ECqRwNHlSRfY
    Novice

    Joined: Nov 14, 2018
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    From: Sheldomar Valley - GB

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    Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:23 am  

    Loved his stuff.
    Thoughts with family and friends.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:54 am  

    Condolences and Respects
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:48 pm  

    Very sad news. He is my favorite D&D author of all time. Condolences to his family
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Barony of Trellwood, The Great Kingdom

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    Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:55 pm  

    Hey all, you can send condolences directly to the family at the link in the original post, it has a virtual guest book and you can donate to the Macmillan Cancer Support charity in his name from there. I did both...
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:14 pm  

    For the heck of it, I just sent an email to drivethrurpg informing them of Carl's passing and asking if they might consider a new POD release of From the Ashes or Night Below, to honor Carl's contributions and appeal to all of the fans talking about him this week. We'll see.

    Drivethru was quick to reprint Monster Mythology when I emailed them about the binding errors on the original print run, so they seem pretty open to such suggestions.
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    Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:19 am  

    I'd been reading up on Night Below recently and hadn't realized that he was gone until just now.

    My condolences to his family and friends.
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    Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:25 am  

    A great loss. Perhaps the single most talented setting writer of all time. Certainly, my personal favorite; some of you might recall that my very first screen name in the D&D community was "Ivid"; this was also in honor of Sargent and his book.
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    Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:07 pm  

    Le Noir Faineant wrote:
    A great loss. Perhaps the single most talented setting writer of all time. Certainly, my personal favorite; some of you might recall that my very first screen name in the D&D community was "Ivid"; this was also in honor of Sargent and his book.


    Very cool. Yeah if I could have one Greyhawk thing done, its an official printing of Ivid.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:56 pm  

    mortellan wrote:


    Very cool. Yeah if I could have one Greyhawk thing done, its an official printing of Ivid.



    I have been wishing for the same thing (as I'm sure many are). What would it take? I assume Wizards/Hasbro owns the rights to it.
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:41 pm  

    xo42 wrote:
    mortellan wrote:


    Very cool. Yeah if I could have one Greyhawk thing done, its an official printing of Ivid.



    I have been wishing for the same thing (as I'm sure many are). What would it take? I assume Wizards/Hasbro owns the rights to it.
    Just speculating, of course, but I donít think Carl Sargent was ever a TSR employee. The commission for Ivid the Undying may have been contingent on releasing it, meaning itís quite possible he never was paid for it (or at least was paid only a modest base fee plus a percentage of the non-existent sales). Hasbro may need to pay Mr. Sargentís estate to release it for sale.

    (Iíll stipulate that my only experience in the area of RPG contracts was my brief work for Trigee on the Yggsburgh town modules, so I may be totally off base.)
    CF Admin

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    Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:13 pm  

    Chunks of Ivid were first published in Dragon Magazine from March 1993 to August 1994:

    Carl Sargent in DragonDex wrote:

    "Campaign Journal" 191(64)
    "Campaign Journal" 195(94)
    "Campaign Journal" 204(52)
    "Campaign Journal" 206(34)
    "Fiend Knights and Dark Artifacts" 206(42)
    "Campaign Journal" 208(48)


    I haven't done a comparison to see how much of that content appears as-is in Ivid (vs. having been edited, added to, subtracted from, etc.), but my recollection is that the articles were pretty long and definitely overlap with Ivid content, I just don't recall to what extent they overlap.

    Allan.
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    Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:43 am  

    I know PDF versions of Ivid have been released (both official and unofficial copies), so I wonder if a company like DriveThruRPG could offer it for sale in a printed version. Ultimately I assume whoever has the rights to it is the only one who can authorize its publication. If it was printed I think it would sell at least modest numbers.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:54 am  

    Again, I could be totally off base. I just recall that the Trigee contracts for Yggsburgh were tied to sales figures. If TSR never formally published Ivid for sale, then a release by Hasbro now could trigger some sort of ďfirst publicationĒ payment to Sargentís estate.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:36 am  

    I'm going to be lazy and respond to lots of comments without quoting anyone...

    Yes, Sargent was never a TSR employee.

    TSR owns the Ivid rights. The copyright text in the modern fan-formatted version isn't just for show, it was in the original 1995 PDF. Standard corporate work for hire.

    Ivid WAS officially edited and released by TSR, just freely and slapdash, without art. We may never learn how freelance commissions for free releases worked on the nascent internet in 1995, but I'm going to assume TSR wasn't just grabbing Ivid from Sargent and Savage Coast from Tim Beach and gleefully screwing their regular authors by releasing them free on the newfangled internet.
    Sargent completed his work. TSR accepted it, edited it, completed cover art (shelved), and released it, in a fashion. He probably got paid.

    It's safe to assume Ivid was written in 1993, before TSR discontinued GH. The fact Sargent went on to do Night Below after that indicates he still had a good relationship with TSR and TSR paid him for Ivid. (On the other hand, Sargent was originally slated to write Bigby's Curse in the 1995 product catalog and he DID NOT...)

    The Dragon articles only scratch about 10% of Ivid. No word content was added, just maps and art. IF Sargent didn't get paid for the online release, we can assume he got paid for the Dragon issues.

    It's unlikely Drivethru would release such a rough product as Ivid. There's no art. There's no layout (the fan version ain't bad, but it ain't professional either). The cover was canalized for a Birthright product currently available on POD. There's no map, just three partials made for Dragon mag and a low-res fan mockup from the mid-Nineties. No way.

    Trigee is an unusual company and I wouldn't assume their practices are entirely standard. The company was basically created to lock down Gygax's IP and ensure he never got screwed again after the TSR fallout. Even the first Gord novel wasn't owned by New Infinities, it was owned by Trigee. I've always gotten the vibe that Trigee operated from a position of survival, scarcity, and fear (understandably so) and was probably less generous with its hired help and licensees than most companies in the biz.... just speculation. I wouldn't doubt that Trigee's post-TSR trauma and subsequent tightfistedness laid the groundwork for Mrs. Gygax's current insane ramblings about tripwires outside her backdoor... ANYWAY, interesting discussion.
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