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    Canonfire :: View topic - Gran March Project
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    Gran March Project
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:29 am  
    Gran March Project

    Hello All, I hope everyone is well. Recently IvorMac and I began a Gran March project that we have been discussing for a year or so. This was initially a detailing/mapping of Hookhill and an Adventure Arc that would take characters from initial levels through Epic.

    It has grown into a general Gazatteer for the whole of Gran March, and several other CF members have kindly agreed to provide their services. We have illustrators, map makers, writers and fools (the last being me). I love the internet.

    With that said, communication is clunky, as these persons are spread around the world and in a multitude of time zones. Actually, I dont think anyone is in the same timezone. Therefore, I want to open this formun to allow us to communicate. Obviously, this will be open to everyone, but considering the scope of the project we have laid out, two cents from others will probably be a good thing.

    I realize it is an unusual to post a semi private thread, but I think it is fitting for this area and the purpose of the project. After all the hope is to post it to CF!

    BTW, for all of those who have written on Gran March, The Knights of the Watch, and related countries, we will probably be contacting you soon to ask permission to use part or all of you posts/articles/works. I image that we will be seeking quotes, paragraphs and the use of names rather than entire articles. Odds are, articles are already posted here. Regardless, be kind. Its all for fun.

    I won't speak for Ivor, but I don't have a vision for the project other than to do a quality presentation of Gran March as a place to adventure; one that new DM's will find inviting and useful (and Old DM's too, but we are a picky lot). I want to keep to Canon when it is reasonable and fun. If your vision of Gran March varies, well thats what red pens were made for.

    Oh, yea, I asked LG Gran March to let us use some of their material, so that a new DM could find information that corellates throughout the web. Wanna guess what the answer was?
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:34 am  
    First Request

    Hello Team,

    I thought I would follow up the opening with my first request...

    I need all references to Gran March and KoW in canonical works that you can think of/ find.

    We have already discussed N1, Against the Giants LOG, LGG and The Queen of Spiders, and Quadriparte (Dungeon Adventure). Anything else. Again, we are not constrained by Canon, but we do not want to willy nilly violate it.

    I think the optimum final result would be an article that stays within the bounds established by the Canon, and make it an original but narrower focus. All thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: May 13, 2004
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    From: MS Gulf Coast

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:01 am  

    Hey there Anced. Just wanted to say that I like the idea of this thread. I also wanted to make a note that it would be nice as this project starts rolling, to perhaps organize some kind of group chat where the entire team could get together. I understand, of course, the constraints of work, availability, time zones etc. Perhaps sometime in the future the team could suggest times, and a chat...such as an AIM, YIM, ICQ or even the thursday chat room.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 20, 2002
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    From: England

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:15 am  

    Just checking in, group communication is a great idea, BUT most of the group are in the Former Colonies which means ppl like me in the Motherland are gonna have some very late nights Shocked
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:33 am  
    Actually

    Tedra, I think that is an excellent Idea. I use AIM, and also we can chat during the GreyTalk sessions. Dethand recently showed me how to set up a seperate room there, may be more people can be invited in?

    Actually Yab, you are part right.

    One of your fellow Imperialists, Wolfing, has agreed to help out and I am going to post our communication right here: I apologize for it being long, but, well thats what it is. I think his artistic flair has allowed him to take the first good stab at pinning down the flavor of GM.

    I believe Ivor has done the most actually work to date on the mechanics/ institutional realities of GM, and I will try to get some of his available soon. He got yanked in for several really late nights at work recently, and I am not sure when that will be available.

    From: Anced_Math
    To: Wolfling
    Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:01 am
    Subject: Illustration
    Hello there. I enjoyed your post about illustrations. Myself and several others are attempting to pursue a Gazatteer of Gran March. Though there are several goals among the group, I would like to create a 3rd Ed., introduction to GH. One that any new DM can download and start.

    Gran March is a country that has as many published adventures in and around it as any in the Flaness. I have noticed in the last 2 years that repeated Dungeon adventures have been placed in and around it. Yet it is one of the vaguest places on Oerik.

    Therefore, we are going to try to stitch all of this togeather, published and dungeon adventures, articles, et. al. Where there are holes, we hope to fill them with new and original work. When it is done, a DM should be able to sit down and read it, and have a clear image of what Gran March looks and feels like. ALso, they will have at least one campaign arc they can use to go from 1st to 25th level.

    Thoughts?

    From: Wolfling
    To: Anced_Math
    Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:45 am
    Subject: Re: Illustration

    That sounds interesting. I must confess I don't know much about the Gran March. In my mind it's very Knights/military based but that's about it. I'll look at my Gazateer tonight to get a better idea. My idea of Greyhawk is that it has a strong high medieval feel and Gran March with its knights is perhaps where this image fits strongly. I'll do some reading tonight and get back to you with some thoughts but I like the idea of a book that would be a good introduction for players into Greyhawk.


    From: Anced_Math
    To: Wolfling
    Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:54 am
    Subject: Re: Illustration

    Wolfing, I think you hit it square on the head. Your summary is excellent. The Crusaders or The Pale (the real world nation) is exactly how I have been describing them.

    I think that the Templars are a good starting point for the KoWatch. However, I think that, due to the determined military stance of populace, the prejudice is very seasonal. i.e. they are a militant group, with a fairly aggressive personality overall, but practical none the less. So, when they are at war, they do not mind a halfling walking beside them. In times of peace, who ever is on the other side is the ultimate evil. Next year, they could be friends. But they always have an enemy. The KoW may be responsible for this mindset.

    Within the KoW, I think you are correct, there is an ingrained hatred/hostility of the Baklunish. However, I think that the recent war/onrunning conflict with the Giants is changing their role, though they may not beleive it, and will not want it. At the very least it has split their ranks into the watch and the dispatch. I think it will lead to a lessening of their role in politics. After all, there are only what 2500 of them left, and 18,000 military troops.

    As to the medieval flair, I will say a qualified yes. However, as Ivor and I were discussing, these people are at a higher level of technology than the medieval kingdoms. They have more social order, and a more educated/competent populace. In social interactions/systems they appear more like the Romans. However, they definately use a medieval military form, with knights on horses with lances. This has never worked well in D&D, and as I generally run a mounted campaign, my group has spent a great deal of time working on why. We have decided that the mounted combat rules are simply broken, tacked on by the game designers as a last minute bow to traditional imagery. We have a heafty revision which I would like to include in this package. I will have those in print soon for review. Simply put though, the lance simply does not do enough damage. Transfer the analogy to real life, I would much rather be set on fire that hit by a pointy stick in the hands of a skilled combatant on the back of a 2,000 lb horse in full armor.

    I also think that we will be integrating a new OGL base class (the noble, by yours truly and posted here) and a new Knight of the Watch. RPGA has a Knight of the Watch PrC, but as I do not play Living GH, I have been unable to obtain a copy. I will say this, the Living Gran March Site has a wealth of well written info on the society, and I would like to use what they will allow, and which does not directly conflict with Canon, some of which does. I do not mind at all changing canon, but as Erik pointed out in a recent post, to do so limits the utility to many people.

    Ivor believes that Hookhill is to look a great deal like Edinborogh, a city/fortress on a hill, and we will probably use a historic city map to form the basis of the Hookhill map. However, where the water/harbor is will be a broad plain, under the theory that the site was selected solely for it's defensability(?). I like his idea here.

    There is no water source, so we envision a network of aquaducts from the Lortmils. I think the Gnomes and Dwarves would have a great deal of influence on this, but describing the Marchers as inept in engineering (as i have seen in some places) is silly. They are military off shoot of Keoland, and no one has yet implied that they were technologically backwards. And no good military ever lacked for engineers.

    Our (Ivor and I) thoughts have been running to the idea that Gran March is an emergent regional or superpower, held back in the past only by obligation and tradition. Their role in the recent wars has removed some of this mentality, but currently military commitments are holding them back, as they are stretched out over the continent. However, the leadership and the populace have become aware of the "Manifest Destiny," so to speak.

    I do not envision Gran March looking like England/Scotland though. Honestly, I think it looks more like Central France. I could be swayed in many directions on this, but visually, i see more dust than the moist climate of England usually provides.

    The American South (where I live) might work as a model, and honestly we are often like the Marchers. Militant, agressive, determied, often ignorant, pious, orderly, and friendly. We have a unique culture which we defend diligently, but I do not see this, yet, in the Marchers. Their independent identity is emerging, not established.

    Then, we are going to have a villan. The ultimate stirrer of the pot, so to speak. Do you have Liberation of Geoff? If not, you will want to pick it up. I think it is an excellent supplement, and I am going to pick up Queen of Spiders. Both are available from SVGames for $4.95 (thats about 1 pound now isn't it :-).
    This villan is a rather interesting combination the villan in my game and the plotline in Ivor's campaign. I think, when we finish combining our story lines, in a week or so, you will laugh at who the "instigators," of the Giant raids turn out to be. They are the most unlikely of villans . I will say this, after three years of running a campaign centered around this villanous race, no one has figured out that they are the ones who originally said "maybe we should get the Giants to invade?" It has been right in front of them. At one point a party member postulated that it could be so... but they were laughed down by the rest of the group. If I can get a regualr email, i can send you the word file, but I think it is too big to go over Canonfire mail.

    Oddly, none of it will conflict with Canon, which should make some of the more stringent parties happy, should they even bother to read such an abominable thing.

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    Anced Math - Confused Elven Wizard

    From: Wolfling
    To: Anced_Math
    Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:17 am
    Subject: Re: Illustration
    Hey hey

    I'm liking your ideas of the Gran March as an up and coming power. I see this based on its strong military stance and probabaly very organised mind set. Yes I totally agree in the France comparison...this is how I was seeing it. Many years ago I visited the Dordogne and Perigord regions of France and visited a number of chateaus and castles, all surrounded by large plains, quite dry and very Gran Marchesque!

    I would agree that I see Gran March as slightly more advanced in their technology but this again I attribute to the martial and organised nature. I would place them somewhere between Roman and Medieval standards. In the later stages of the Medieval Era I think things did get quite advanced and so I would make this comparison - Roman to Dark Ages to High Medieval as compared to Keoland at its zenith to a 'dark age' for the region to the resurgence of the Gran March. I have been giving thought to the general period of Medieval history I see as fitting appearance wise...now I feel that Greyhawk is more in the lines of the later Medieval period but to be honest I don't like the clothing and appearance of that time so I would suggest an image closer to the 1300s perhaps? Simply for aesthetic reasons. Anyways - it's not like we are bound to follow this tightly - its fantasy and we can take what elements we like - I think a combination of all eras would be fine. I see Keoland and especially Gran March as having a more Oeridian style of dress and appearance - the tunic and hose kind of style. Maybe court and noble wear have some Suel elements.

    I do own Liberation of Geoff and the Queen of Spiders series so I will have a look through those. I'm intrigued to hear of the indentity of your enemy behind the scenes!

    I can check emails at work but for some reason I have a problem with my work computer that wont allow me to reply so I can do that back home in the evenings.

    Okay I am going to put some thoughts down onto paper!
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:22 am  
    Here is my recent correspondence

    Here is my recent correspondence with the Royal Cartographer:

    He had asked was I still interested in his services

    From: Yabusama
    To: Anced_Math
    Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:34 am
    Subject: Re: What are the chances

    Anced_Math wrote:
    Absolutely!!! What I want to do is get a very clear vision of what it to be done. To be honest, the size of the project has grown to more than we originally envisoned, and I am wrestling with the best place to post information. I think that we may begin with a thread in the Greytalk/Publications section.

    I think that there are, ideally, 5 maps that we would like done.

    1) A map of Hookhill. This will be based on Edinborogh, though there will be plains to the north, not water.

    2) A Province/Road map, which can also be modified to show trade and hotspots.

    3) A map of Lortenford, a small city on the river.

    4) A map of e, the province of Deiren, in which Lortenford is located.

    5) A map of Farvale, the province between the Dim Forest and the Rushmoors.

    In light of the quality of your work, I realize that this is probably a massive amound of time; therefore, I will happily and gladly accept all that you can and will offer.

    IvorMac has already begun a map of Hookhill, using the citymap, and this is what he will tie his key/storyline too. Also, two CF members have agreed to provide illustrations.

    Finally, be aware, that considering the size (a complete Gazatteer, with historic, political, cultural, religious and adventure details) that this project will probably not be ready to post until the fall. I think we may even take a run at the OJ.


    No probs with the requests for mapping and given the time frame of the autumn I am happy to oblige. To run thru your requests;

    1. Hookhill. Did you mean Edinburgh (Scotland) as a basis for the map? If so I have access to a vast vast archive of historic maps thru my workplace ( I work for the UK mapping agency btw).
    2. Province map, no problem at all.
    3. Lortenford, again no probs.
    4. Province of Deiren, easy
    5. Farvale province, yet again easy.


    The province maps are only about 3-4 hrs each to get a draft ready for you to amend, the city maps obviously take longer, but most medieval cities are not enormous, infact Hookhill is in the region of 4,500 or so I believe. A "city" of this size doesnt take long to do, but if Ivormac is already working on it, then I wouldnt want to tread on his toes.
    My only concern would be continuity across the gazetteer.

    Anyway ley me know what you think, and if you want I could start with the province map (number 2 above) when and if you can give me the go-ahead.

    Happy to help

    Andy


    As to the Province Names, LG Gran March has declined our request to use any of their information, so we will need to detail any and all provinces on our own. Silly, time consuming and what we will have to do.

    Thanks All
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:47 am  
    From Yabusama

    Anced

    Feel feel to distibute this to others in the project if you see fit.

    I have just been looking at the LG map of Gran March, and the provinces they have. As you mentioned, the use of their provinces is verboten, and a good job too. Since when did medieval provinces have right angles and run in straight lines, take it from me medieval boundaries follow roads, rivers and landmarks, so I think a more fluid, natural boundary alignment is called for. The richer farmlands around the Sheldomar river would have smaller provinces, those consisting of more moorland, forest and mountain would be bigger.

    What about Shiboleth? That is a 'canon' loation and open to devlopment? And Orlane, again a module location? Would you want maps of either of these as well?

    Anyway just some initial thoughts

    Andy aka Yabusama

    Oh, and in defense of LG Gran March, they are probably not professional cartographers like you, or real estate planners, like me. So, their understanding of provenical development can be forgiven. However, your points are well taken and [/i]
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:55 pm  
    Thoughts on the Races

    Wolfing forwarded me the following in an email, so I thought I would post it. Anyone with differing thoughts, please let us know.

    "I have been busy and haven't drawn anything yet. However, I did send my mind drifting out of the Gran March and around the Sheldomar though. I just wanted to give myself and idea of the typical appearance of the other peoples of the region.

    I will share my views with you even though it's not specifically Gran March;

    Bissel (OSB) - a fairly tan people but with eveidence of a honey colour to
    their skin from Baklunish blood. dark haired due to Oeridian and Bak blood but a more slender folk due to Suloise and Bak blood.

    Geoff (FSO)- sturdier in build, curly auburn hair of varying shades, fairly
    fair skinned with a tendency to freckle - when they do tan they go quite
    dark.

    Gran March (SOf)- curly auburn hair of varying shades, tallish and slim of
    face but with a strong jawline, grey / hazel eyes are most common.


    Sterich (OFS) - curly dark hair, average height and slim of face, lean and
    light bronze or olive skin, grey eyes are common

    Keoland (SOf)- as Gran March. Commoners are darker of hue and the nobles show more Suloise traits.

    County of Ulek (OFS) - similar to Sterich

    Duchy of Ulek (Sfo) - fairest of all the SHeldomar groups. Tall and lithe,
    blue or grey eyes are common, freckle in the sun but like many in the
    Sheldomar they tan a nice olive colour. Hair tends to be lighter...honey
    blonde, lighter auburn.

    Duchy of Ulek (half-elves) - those with high elf blood are fairskinned and
    freckled with brown hair of various shades. Those with wylvan elf blood tend to have coppery red hair or honey blond, fair freckled skin and hazel eyes.

    Principality of Ulek (SO) - similar to Gran March

    Yeomanry League (SOf) - as Gran March

    Flan blood where fainter tends to manifest in stronger bone structure of the cheeks and nose. These are just the most common appearances - obviously there can be much leeway and many of the regions look pretty similar...the Duchy of Ulek is most obvious for its fairer coloured folk.

    Okay so that was a bit of a side diversion.

    Could you let me know the links to medieval arms and armour that you
    mentioned?

    I feel the Sheldomar has quite a western european vibe to it. France and the UK, maybe even a hint of Spain in the areas with Baklunish influence?? The influence historically of Keoland throughout the Sheldomar means fashion and dress is quite similar from region to region. Medieval garb, tunics and hose. The Ulek states may have had some influence from the demihumans...especially amongst the ruling class....human nobles in the County of Ulek may wear garb influenced by Yolande's Court.

    The Gran March would be less about fancy jewellry and garb and more about items inspired by warfare, ceremonial blades and armour for example. I would imagine the Gran March court to be very rigid and stuffy - savoir-faire and etiquette are crucial. The commandant as a wizard may especially be pedantic about ritual and detail?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 19, 2004
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    From: Edmonton, Canada

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    Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:17 pm  

    This may seem a bit trivial given the size of the project, but Anced, I am still concern over the water for Hookhill. Aqueduct seem to me in a military sense a prime target so would the builders allowed themselves to be so vulnerable? Is there canon on adding to maps? Could smaller rivers not been seen because of the scale of the map?
    Anyway I was just telling my kids about this project and how I am collaborating with people around the world. It is great and I am quite looking forward to it.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    From: Edmonton, Canada

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    Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:52 pm  

    Oerth Journal 2 has a good piece on the history and fauna of the Lortmil Mountains. I kow it is not canon but it adds to the history of the area. The Lost Flan City of Haradaragh sound like an interesting story as well not that I am trying to add to the project.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    From: England

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    Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:48 am  
    What have the Romans done for us?

    Okay so talk of aqueducts and their security led me to do some research, I have posted below the best bits (sorry its long, but worth it)

    Aqua Appia
    Built in 312 BC, during the Roman Republic, by Appius Claudius Caecus, the Aqua Appia is Rome's oldest aqueduct. The source, a series of springs, was discovered by Caius Plautius Verox. The Appia, sixteen kilometers in length, runs mainly underground only to expose itself at its terminus, in the Forum Boarium, and at an arcade bridging the valley between the Caelian and Aventine Hills. The water system pursues this subterranean course, only to emerge within the Servian Wall, for considerations of security. For during the time of the Appia's construction, Rome was burdened by frequent warfare with the Samnites. A people who could have, in an attempt to siege the city, cut the water lines in order to paralyze their enemy.

    The Aqua Marcia along the Via Appia
    Between 144 and 140 B.C. praetor Q. Marcius oversaw construction of the Aqua Marcia. Although finished in two years, water did not flow through the aqueduct to the city until 140 B.C. A conflict arose because the Sibylline books that said water from the Anio Valley, a source, should not flow into the Capitol. Marcius Rex managed to convince the Senate otherwise and the Aqua Marcia was aptly named after him
    The Marcia provided a source of clean water to the city that was experiencing growth from recent military successes against Carthage and Macedonia. A series of springs located on the right bank of the Upper Anio, several underground channels and run-off from the slopes of the Simbruini ridge gave the aqueduct its foundation. The Aqua Marcia was the longest aqueduct spanning 91 km or about 57 miles and yielded 190,000 m3 per day.
    Of that, 50 miles was underground with the remaining seven miles being made up of arches or substructure. The Marcia was built this way in an attempt to prevent the water supply from being cut off. The majority of the channel travels mostly underground to protect against invaders

    Construction
    The word aqueduct comes from the Latin words aqua, meaning water, and ductum a verb meaning led. It is a channel by which water is led from its source to the user. Most aqueducts ran underground, however, if it became necessary to cross a valley or river, the aqueduct was elevated on a bridge of stone arches to enable the water to flow at a constant rate. Depending on the landscape, an aqueduct may have had to be constructed with multiple tiers of arches. These structures were functional and also architecturally impressive.
    There are three main types of aqueducts: masonry conduits, lead pipes, and earthenware pipes. The most commonly built in Rome were masonry conduits. The nucleus of the masonry aqueduct was the specus, or the water channel, which was about the size of our present day doorway. With stone walls, stone floors, and a stone roof, regardless if it ran underground or was built upon tiers, the specus was always covered. Constructed of one of three types: flat slabs, twin slabs with a pointed arch and a half-round arch, the original purpose of the covering was to shield the channel from the sun. However, with the possibility of enemy intrusion through poisoning the water, the covering later became an important means of defense.
    Once complete and running, aqueducts had long working histories. They were maintained, inspected, repaired, and improved. For example, chalk deposits built up and would decrease water supply and eventually block the aqueduct. Consequently, the channels, as well as the traps, had to be cleaned regularly for sediment deposits. It was necessary to build accesses at regular intervals to facilitate the cleaning. When the wars in Italy ended it was no longer necessary for the channels to be secret. Many were marked with milestones called cippi. Cippi were used to locate specific points along the aqueduct making these repairs practical.

    Conclusions

    1. Most aqueducts were underground where possible
    2. Access to them was hidden.
    3. Most only surfaced where they met the city walls.
    4. Large settling tanks were needed within the city to purify the water. These would serve as reserves in the event of war.

    Err thats about it.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:08 am  
    Aquaducts

    Well, Ivor, I think that considering the size of the project, our motto should be Quality, Quality, Quality. So, lets do it right the first time.

    Your observation, though is an apt one. I doubt there is any canon reference on such a thing, but I am going to put up a general post asking for all known 1e, 2e, 3e, Dungeon and Dragon references. Abyss or someone similar will probably produce 100 in 6 minutes, or so.

    However, Yabusama's reply seems pretty sound. Lets take Roman history, and transmorgifty it to a fantasy world. Who would operate a aquaduct... the Gnomes of the Lorrigdes? who would construct it, maybe the dwarves? I have no doubts that the Dwarves would be responsible for defending the secret source, giving them a minor influence in politics.

    Thoughts?

    BTW, overall, i think the tenant for this project is the same for a fantasy movie... we do not want real, we want realistic. This is what could be/should be. So, there are no minor points. Every detail is critical.
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:33 am  
    A quick observation

    A quick observation on Canon, for this project.

    Ivor and I discussed the use of Canon in this project last night, and bounced around what could be described as a Constitutional basis for the project. This means that Canon, as defined by TSR, EGG, RK, etal., is the widest interpretation. Anything within those bounds are open to us. We can narrow the interpretation, detail it, put it through loops, but we will not go outside the bounds. This project is to create a tailored campaign setting for us and as many other DMs as possible. Its also fun, or has been so far.

    Thus:
    1) Canon is not to be our guiding light, just the outer darkness we dont go beyond.

    2) Non Canon sources will be treated as Canon. The Sheldomar Timeline is probably going to serve as Canon for us, because it is such a good reference point. If they would just finish the darn thing. Happy

    3) What ever our final product, I want it to be enjoyable, but not forgetable.

    Finally, Ivor, I told my daughter about the project, after you mentioned it. My older daughter is 3 1/2 and has studied the Globe in school, but never the internet. So, she would like to know how you get all the way from British Columbuia, and Yabusama gets all the way from England, to my computer, and back Smile And she wants you to show her how Happy
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:52 am  

    IvorMac’s concerns were mine too, but Yabusama cured that. More than that, he highlighted some excellent opportunities.

    “3. Most only surfaced where they met the city walls.” I would avoid that. Have a few outlying weak spots. Protect them with forts. That is adventure waiting to happen.

    Indeed the whole aqueduct system is an adventure waiting to happen. Is there a wererat infestation, or some other bugger of choice? Is there a connection to the Underdark?

    And Anced, “Dwarves …minor influence in politics”. Maybe not so minor. Keoish Brandy is for drinkin’, waters for fightin’, as we say in the Wild West (well at least the dry parts). Cross referencing CruelSummerLord’s recent post “Upon Knightly Rivalries and Their Origins, Part II” for the Watch’s demihuman relations would absolutely be worth it.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:26 am  
    Yes

    Yes, Yes, Yes... oh, and the "minor influence," was a specific understatement.

    I will be away at Mardi Gras through Monday. Hope you all have a good time this week.

    Happy
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:45 pm  
    Hello All

    Well, I would like to say it is good to be back, however, Mardi Gras was a blast. Best year ever from my perspective. It was really early, so most Spring Breakers were not there. We go every year.

    A few pointers: Unless you have family or friends in the City, Mardi Gras is a disaster, avoid it; the city is all closed up, you cannot move around and it is difficult to do anything. Jazz Fest is more fun, and you can see the city.

    However, if your wife is from there, and you have friends and family living just off of St. Charles Ave... well, you will not want to come back.

    Back to reality, or Greyhawk at least. The Gran March project is developing and an adventure Idea has come up that I thought was worthy of discussion (and maybe much more). As you are aware, our puppet master villan is/was the Grand Vizier of the Isles of Woe. He has bargained with a diety for a Demi Plane, from which he helps plot the Deity's Oerthly conquests.

    As an Epic Level adventure, the party must go to his Demi Plane and defeat him? He has created the Demi Plane into the Image of the Isles of Woe before their fall.

    This could be an enormous wealth of knowledge and a non time travel method of exploring Greyhawk's Past. It could also be a way of exploring the full extent of the Isles of Woe without raising them or unleashing their horrible magic on the world.

    Thoughts?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 19, 2004
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    Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:17 am  

    I do not know deep into the history of the Sheldamor Valley we want to go however we may want to include Venca since he seems to have had some effect on this region. After reading through Vecna Lives! there a couple of references to the Ancient Keoland empire and Vecna interest. I have seen in one of the post suggesting that Vecna's old kingdom or sphere of infuence may have based near or in Gran March. This is worth exploring to see if there is canon enough to support it.

    Kirt - Recent Vecna thread
    Quote:
    Debatable. Pre-GH Wars, there was no set location. Pre-LGG set it in rumors as being around the Nyr Dyv. LGG places it clearly in the northern Sheldomar, centered in present day Gran March.

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    CF Admin

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    Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am  

    Moved this thread to the Gran March Gazetteer.

    Have fun!
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    Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:26 am  

    Hi Guys

    Just checking in with an update. Mapping is continuing on Hookhill (Anced has seen a few screen shots) and on regional map of Gran March, however real life and work are hitting me pretty heavily at the moment.

    I will endeavour to get something to Ivor ASAP but that might be a few weeks of Confused

    Yabu
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    Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:47 pm  

    Hey all,

    I am a friend of Anced's IRL, and I am interested in getting in on this project. If there is anything specific that the project needs, I'll do my best to contribute. I think my strengths are fiction and all things military (I'm a bit of a history buff).

    Please let me know what needs to be done so I can assist.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:26 pm  
    Hello All

    Hello Team!

    We have been slaving away for about 2 months now, and it is starting to shape up! I am impressed at the overall quality, and it is soon that we will need to start turning an eye towards drafting material for others to review.

    So here is the bare bones of a schedule i was thinking about:

    Milestone 1: May 30

    Have all general discussion over and general scope of project established and discussed. This includes general outline of final product, as distinct from the Idea outline already posted. There is a lot to do here. We have wandered far afield, to our great benefit, but we need to begin coalescing into something tangible. By this time, not only should general assignments be spoken for, but specific tasks assigned.

    Milestone 2: June 30

    Have turned in to the general board (which I am hoping Dethand and PSmedger will have established by then) 1 page summaries for review. These will be of each section to be included in a table of contents. This will allow overall format to begin and illustration to be assigned.

    Milestone 3: August 30

    Draft of each section to be submitted. This will allow all participants to add comments and suggestions as we near to the completion of the text portion of the project. At this point the general content should be determined and thoughts of sidebars, extras and notations of conflicts with canon, special feats, spells, items, creatures

    Milestone 4: October 30

    A good draft of the whole document should be complete. It should include all sections, in a nearly complete form. Illustrations should be complete and only last minute additions should be necessary. All NPC stats should be complete for the Roster, and all sections should be in proofing by the group as a whole.

    Milestone 5: November 30

    Final Document ready for final edit.

    Milestone 6: December 23rd.

    Publish the document to Canonfire, with the document hopefully being posted at the beginning of the New Year.

    Thoughts?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:02 pm  

    Hey AM

    I recieved your request for a couple of sketches via Kalem. Not a problem. Also wondering if there were any specifics you had in mind. As in any specific mode of dress or station you are wanting to see first. Also, I am wondering if there are any NPC's that anyone may want a beginning sketch with as well. I'm open for suggestions and ready to go in that case as well should the need arise. All I need is their info.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:32 pm  
    Common Merchant Woman

    I would like to start with a common woman. A common woman who is the financial center of her home, who runs the household and the business, who guards the fort when her husband is off fighting Iuz. You know, what we are modelling as the typical GM woman.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 19, 2004
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    Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:40 pm  

    Hey Tedra I have some NPCs, let me know when you have some time and I'll send you their info.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:18 am  

    I'm on it AM, and Ivor, feel free to send me the NPC's as soon as you wish. I'm ready to go. I believe my email is on my info page. Happy
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