Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Touring the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly Denizens
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Rime of the FrostMaiden in Greyhawk?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Rime of the FrostMaiden in Greyhawk?
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:58 am  
    Rime of the FrostMaiden in Greyhawk?

    Hello,

    I've searched the forum and either my search-fu is terrible, or I didn't find a single mention of this on the forums. So, I am hoping to perhaps get some help from the good folk of Canonfire!

    The premise is that the FR deity of Cold/Snow/etc. has fought an alliance of other deities and fled to the mortal realm to lick her wounds. She's wrathful, hateful, and wants to be left alone. When she does this, she catches this section on the edge of the world that has 10 small towns on the tundra that is collectively known as "Ten Towns" in a grip of eternal winter. While sounding like a Christmas special, I do want to try it in Greyhawk.

    I figure Telchur is a perfect replacement for the Frostmaiden. So, we can call it Rime of the Icebrother! I might need some help as to why he might be hiding and/or banished to the mortal world. In the original, the Goddess of Storms didn't like her freezing the chaotic water and started an alliance against her. Kind of weak, but I can at least come up with something better. I have come up with either the rest of the Harvest Church wants to try to oust him, which doesn't seem wise for a group of gods. The next idea is that a group of humans tried to "banish winter" and this is the ill effects. I wouldn't mind some advice on that, but can figure something out.

    Location is kind of important. It should be at the edge of the civilized world and in a general tundra type area. I figured above the old Great Kingdom would be good. I don't know that area too well, to be honest, as I'm more of a Sheldomar Valley or Furyondy kind of guy. The people of Ten Towns are generally civilized with some barbarians nearby (and some who live in the town). I would think somewhere up near the various Suel barbarians would be good. Maybe even somewhere near a couple tribes would be great!

    Any help or suggestions on locations?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 540
    From: British Isles

    Send private message
    Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:25 pm  

    I think Telchur is implicated in the imprisonment of Vatun and he also has some dodgy allies like the Archdevil Belial who most likely aided him in dealing with Vatun. As a result Llerg and Dalt are very anti Telchur and I think his sister Wenta doesn't like him either. Maybe Llerg (popular amongst the Suel Barbarians), Dalt and Wenta are the deities that have caused him to hide out or maybe whatever deall he made with Belial has finally come to bite him in his icy posterior?

    If you want a civilised region in proximity to barbarians then Ratik might be a good location?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 21, 2013
    Posts: 335
    From: Minnesota

    Send private message
    Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:39 pm  

    I am sorry that I have not read the backstory for the adventure arc but am just throwing this out there anyway.

    Could it be that Vatun has been freed from imprisonment and the resulting effect on 10 Towns is just the side affect of his re-appearance.

    Or maybe 10 Towns is Telchur worshiping folk and Vatun had chosen them as the recipients of his initial retributions.

    Not sure if it fits but am curious now because Vatun could very well be freed in a campaign I am running and might have to pick up the adventure if it fits in well . . .
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3152
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:06 pm  

    Blackmoor seems like the obvious place to put Ten-Towns. It's to the extreme northwest, one of the coldest places in the Flanaess, on the edge of civilization, barbarians nearby (the Zeai), plenty of tundra but also some small towns. Part of the Great Kingdom before the nomad invasions cut it off. I suppose you could also put Ten-Towns even further north, beyond the Land of Black Ice, if you wanted to flesh out an entirely new region beyond the Darlene Map free of earlier canon. It could even be in the northern continent of Telchuria.

    As for Telchur, Dragon #265 gives us a myth that Velnius once gave him dominion over the winds while he, Velnius, visited other worlds, only for Telchur to create an ice age while Velnius was away. Velnius was infuriated, and tasked Telchur's younger siblings with watching over their brother and ensuring he never again got enough power to do that. Wenta is particularly unhappy with Telchur for ruining her season every year with bitter winter. Telchur, in turn, is full of bitterness for being given dominion over only the coldest and harshest part of the year.

    From the Ashes suggests that Telchur works to prevent the invasion of god from another world—Loviatar is suggested—via a gate in the Hanging Glacier of Alisedran in the Corusks. If the Hanging Glacier is the gate to Vatun's prison, perhaps this is where Vatun seeks to escape.

    But basically, it's easy to see Llerg, Dalt, Velnius, Wenta, Atroa, and Sotillion allying together, perhaps with Loviatar joining in, and Vatun if he manages to free himself (perhaps Vatun winning his freedom galvanizes the whole thing), to teach Telchur a lesson if he tries to overextend himself once again. Procan might even be part of the alliance, siding with his other children over the dangerous Master of the Ice Wind; he might also dislike Telchur freezing his chaotic water, like his counterpart in the Realms.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:59 am  

    Thanks everyone! It looks good to have the Harvest Church being mad with the Icebrother and he's hiding out around Ten Towns. I'm not even sure that the players figure out why the other gods are mad, but I can spin it with Vatun or something else. I appreciate that.

    Overall, in the plot, you eventually fight the weakened avatar state of the Frost Maiden (or Icebrother for me). She spent most of their power building the eternal winter around the Ten Towns area. Antagonist is weakened from the fight, as well as confused and angry. It's an epic fight with three levels of avatar to destroy (think there is a non-combat way to get through it). Vatun is too sympathetic to be someone you have to fight. I'll stick with Telchur.

    Location seems to be the next thing to deal with. The thing is that it SHOULD NOT be around civilization. One of the annoying aspects of the FR is the lack of nation states, but basically Ten Towns is the edge of the world. There are no towns beyond them. Besides the odd mix of barbarians and those that have settled this far lands, it's a place where desperados go to hide out from anyone and everyone. So, it has to be outside of all known nation states. I am OK with it not being the most northernly human settlement, but having it somewhere outside of normal human civilization is key, but not too far.... Part of the trouble with the eternal winter is how they are cut off from the rest of the world.

    If I had to put it somehwere, I would aim for north of Ratik somewhere. Not sure if better with the Frost, Ice, or Snow barbarians. Possibly Stonehold? Without digging too much into things, I might lean towards the Snow barbarians?

    Oh! There must be ocean with moving ice! I just read that this is important in the plot. So, somewhere near the coast.


    Last edited by heychadwick on Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:09 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    Blackmoor seems like the obvious place to put Ten-Towns. It's to the extreme northwest, one of the coldest places in the Flanaess, on the edge of civilization, barbarians nearby (the Zeai), plenty of tundra but also some small towns. Part of the Great Kingdom before the nomad invasions cut it off. I suppose you could also put Ten-Towns even further north, beyond the Land of Black Ice, if you wanted to flesh out an entirely new region beyond the Darlene Map free of earlier canon. It could even be in the northern continent of Telchuria.


    I admit that I don't know much about Blackmoor, but it always seemed filled with so much lore of stuff that I just didn't get, like eggs and whatnot.

    EDIT: Looking at the map, I MIGHT have found a spot, but would love input. It's the area east of the Hraak Forest and west of the Corusk Mountains. Depending on which map you look at, it's separated from the rest of the Schanii for it to be a bit independent. It's on the coast. It's isolated. It looks ill defined by lore.


    Last edited by heychadwick on Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:57 am  

    For anyone interested in the plot, I can summarize:

    - Cold god blocks off Ten Towns with very little traffic in and out. Always night and always cold. Been this way for 2 years.

    - Duergar Warlock wants to take advantage of eternal night to build an empire on the surface.

    - An ancient, flying city of the Netheril (easily made Suel) crashed and is under a glacier.

    - Four wizards from a cut throat wizard build all chasing the lost Suel magic.

    Eventually, after defeating Duergar, they learn of the ancient city in ice. They need to travel to where the avatar of the Icebrother is to get a few items to crack the glacier to get to the city. Eventually, they can defeat the rival wizards and a Suel demi-lich to claim the city as their own. The city has magic effect that can control the weather within 50 mile radius and can break Telchur's spell.

    I'll have to read up more on the flying city, but I'm not so keen on it flying. I figure it can be some Suel that received an omen about the Devastation and fled.... with a city. I will check to see if it can be a city that somehow teleported there or will it have to fly. Flying can work, but might just want it magically transported there. Probably have it that the teleport went wrong and they didn't mean to end up there. If it were flying, they were around there when things went terribly wrong due to scheming between the power players of the city and it crashed. So much for avoiding the apocalypse....
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 22, 2019
    Posts: 41


    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:01 pm  

    If you don't want to use a flying city, how about using a city in a demiplane? That has a more Greyhawk feel to it.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3152
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:37 pm  

    heychadwick wrote:
    I admit that I don't know much about Blackmoor, but it always seemed filled with so much lore of stuff that I just didn't get, like eggs and whatnot.


    Well, that'd be a reason to use the area for Ten-Towns; if the existing Blackmoor lore is too intimidating to use, then here's an alternative that you can use instead.

    Blackmoor is complex and esoteric because it imports some elements of Dave Arneson's original campaign into a setting (Greyhawk) that wasn't really built for it (since Gygax only played in Arneson's game a few times and wasn't that familiar with it). But even if you read the DA series and Judge's Guild's First Fantasy Campaign and Zeitgeist Games' "Dave Arneson's Blackmoor" line, a lot of it is never entirely explained. What exactly is the Egg of Coot? Is he a mutated ancient scientist, a Cthulhu-like elder being, or something else? Even Dave Arneson didn't seem sure.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 485
    From: Dantredun, MN

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:31 pm  

    The cool thing about Greyhawk's Blackmoor is it's almost completely undeveloped. The original Arneson lore can be used a la carte.

    Just read the one-paragraph description in the Folio, the GH wiki, and Frederick Weining's article in Oerth Journal #5, and you're good to go!
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/canonfire/OJ_05.pdf

    "Frostbrother" sounds a little hippie. Andy Miller offers some aliases in Dr265: Father Frost, The Ice Man, The Frostbite Lord, Walker of the Wastes, Master of the North Wind.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3152
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:54 pm  

    vestcoat wrote:

    Just read the one-paragraph description in the Folio, the GH wiki, and Frederick Weining's article in Oerth Journal #5, and you're good to go!


    I'd go a step further (or closer) and only recommend the Folio/'83 boxed set. I'm a fan of Fred Weining's work on Blackmoor (and Dave Arneson's), but those who find those elements too arcane might find it more rewarding to stick purely to the Gygaxian take.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
    Posts: 422
    From: Canada

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:15 pm  

    If you're looking for the edge of civilization with a lot of less-than-moral frontiersmen and roughnecks, with a bunch of nearby barbarian types, then why not use some of the northernmost Bandit Kingdoms? The Bandit Kingdoms have that same "edge of civilization" mentality as Ten-Towns, and the Rovers of the Barrens, the Fists and the Frost or Snow Barbarians could all fill in for the Icewind Dale barbarians.

    The Griff Mountains north of Tenh and the Troll Fens are a perfect place for the ancient city of ice. The duergar warlock can come up from the DeepOerth. As for the four wizards chasing the lost Suel magic, they could be from Iuz's Boneheart or even be Horned Hierarchs, depending on when your campaign is set and whether those states are still active. It's also a good place for the Frost or Snow Barbarians to get involved if you want to make them potential allies or enemies for your players.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:00 am  

    LarethTheBeautiful wrote:
    If you don't want to use a flying city, how about using a city in a demiplane? That has a more Greyhawk feel to it.


    The city has some magic on hit that allows controlling the weather. It is strong enough to break through the weakened magic of the Cold God. At least, that's what I think. So, it has to be on the same plane. It is at the bottom of a glacier and you need a powerful magic do-da to crack the ice enough to go in. Even then, it's pretty thematic.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:04 am  

    For Blackmoor, there is just enough lore and just enough civilization there to have me not use it. I think it's better to grab some spot of nowhere that would fit better.

    CruelSummerLord wrote:
    If you're looking for the edge of civilization with a lot of less-than-moral frontiersmen and roughnecks, with a bunch of nearby barbarian types, then why not use some of the northernmost Bandit Kingdoms? The Bandit Kingdoms have that same "edge of civilization" mentality as Ten-Towns, and the Rovers of the Barrens, the Fists and the Frost or Snow Barbarians could all fill in for the Icewind Dale barbarians.

    The Griff Mountains north of Tenh and the Troll Fens are a perfect place for the ancient city of ice. The duergar warlock can come up from the DeepOerth. As for the four wizards chasing the lost Suel magic, they could be from Iuz's Boneheart or even be Horned Hierarchs, depending on when your campaign is set and whether those states are still active. It's also a good place for the Frost or Snow Barbarians to get involved if you want to make them potential allies or enemies for your players.


    I had looked at this and thought it could be a good spot. What I eventually did was pull up a map of what "Icewind Dale" looks like because there will be maps there and I can use the built in ones (with changed names).

    - Harsh mountains directly to the south
    - Ocean is to the North West.

    I think the spot east of the Hraak Forest and west of the Corusk Mountains works well enough. It's at the edge of the Schnaii and I can see them ignoring the eternal winter enough.

    Thanks for the help!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:41 am  

    vestcoat wrote:
    "Frostbrother" sounds a little hippie. Andy Miller offers some aliases in Dr265: Father Frost, The Ice Man, The Frostbite Lord, Walker of the Wastes, Master of the North Wind.


    Oh, I do have to admit that I couldn't help, but think back to the 80's and see Hulk Hogan calling Telchur "Frostbrother!" I appreciate the aliases...
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 103
    From: Charlotte, NC

    Send private message
    Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:23 am  

    I did find out one thing that I need a little help with. One of the Arcane Brotherhood is neutral and can be a patron for the party. They are from a famous wizard family (Harpell). I'm trying to think of an equivalent family in Greyhawk. They don't need to be good or evil, just famous.

    The only one I can think of is Maure, but I am not sure if they are still active.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3152
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:15 pm  

    heychadwick wrote:
    I did find out one thing that I need a little help with. One of the Arcane Brotherhood is neutral and can be a patron for the party. They are from a famous wizard family (Harpell). I'm trying to think of an equivalent family in Greyhawk. They don't need to be good or evil, just famous.


    Mordenkainen is from a famous family (Glossography: "Zagyg is related to Heward by some distant kinship, and Heward and arch-mage Mordenkainen are likewise kin.")

    Jallarzi Sallavarian, also of the Circle of Eight, has famous family as well (Lady Xenia Sallavarian is her cousin, and Duke Karll of Urnst is also a cousin of the Sallavarians).

    Melf, Prince Brightflame, is a cousin of Queen Yolande of Celene.

    Rary has a brother, Arkalan Sammal, so the Sammal family might work. According to Gary Holian, one of their ancestors, Pharol Al-Sammal, drove Iggwilv out of Ket.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1262
    From: Clarksville, TN

    Send private message
    Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:36 am  

    heychadwick wrote:
    ...I'll have to read up more on the flying city, but I'm not so keen on it flying. I figure it can be some Suel that received an omen about the Devastation and fled.... with a city. I will check to see if it can be a city that somehow teleported there or will it have to fly. Flying can work, but might just want it magically transported there...


    -There's already precedent for a [i]hovering[i] Suel city: The City of Glass, over Lo Reltarma. Maybe related?
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2562
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:21 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    heychadwick wrote:
    I did find out one thing that I need a little help with. One of the Arcane Brotherhood is neutral and can be a patron for the party. They are from a famous wizard family (Harpell). I'm trying to think of an equivalent family in Greyhawk. They don't need to be good or evil, just famous.


    Mordenkainen is from a famous family (Glossography: "Zagyg is related to Heward by some distant kinship, and Heward and arch-mage Mordenkainen are likewise kin.")

    Jallarzi Sallavarian, also of the Circle of Eight, has famous family as well (Lady Xenia Sallavarian is her cousin, and Duke Karll of Urnst is also a cousin of the Sallavarians).

    Melf, Prince Brightflame, is a cousin of Queen Yolande of Celene.

    Rary has a brother, Arkalan Sammal, so the Sammal family might work. According to Gary Holian, one of their ancestors, Pharol Al-Sammal, drove Iggwilv out of Ket.


    Also, Erac's Cousin obviously has family. Cool

    SirXaris
    _________________
    SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1833
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:46 pm  

    The ancient flying city could be related to the City of the Gods, which can be anything from a crashed spaceship to the remnants of an ancient magical steampunk-type civilization. The latter would seem to fit well with what I've read of the city in Rime of the Frostmaiden.
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.39 Seconds