Canonfire!

Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:05 am Irongate in Dragon 351

Wow - finally. I have had a Greyhawk campaign set in Irongate for more years than I care to think about. Now finally something more than the few paragraphs provided in official material.

I was always going to be unsatisfied with the amount of material and I certainly hoped to see certain areas covered.

What was there was great. I loved the artwork for the city - I had no idea it was perched on top of a mesa - very dramatic. The depth of the undercity also surprised me.

Two dwarven clans were mentioned by name, one from Irongate and one from the Iron Hills.

No light was shed on Cobb Drag's heritage, just what I have seen on the boards here previously. I'm going with the dragon theory myself. I dont get the dwarven heritage theory. Either he is a dwarf or not. There are no half-dwarves so I dont see how a human could have dwarven heritage.

The deep doors idea is great. I have seen some unofficial underdark maps for greyhawk which showed none anywhere near Irongate, so I guess I assumed there was no connection to it in Irongate. I love the fact that there is.

Oerthblood is covered by another topic, but I like it.

Tuaren Leedstit: I thought that Exp9 seems a little low for a world class geology sage. I would add more levels.

Some questions:

How many Greyhawkers out there care about stuff to do with Irongate?
I love it, but I figure it is not one of the most popular areas of Greyhawk.

It seems as though the authors would have a lot more information generated for Irongate. Any chance of seeing a "city" article in Dungeon along the lines they have done for other cities, like Sasserine? Or better yet an adventure arc set in or around Irongate. I figured this could be possible since the area is not covered by Living Greyhawk. And the city and environs lend itself to some great adventures.

What do other people make of the article?

I believe the authors read these boards - so thanks a lot. Really enjoyed seeing something on "my" corner of Greyhawk.

Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:55 pm

You can find some of the preliminary stuff that the Irongate article was based on here: http://www.melkot.com/locations/irongate.html

You will note that the creator of the site is one of the authors of the article.

You may also have noticed that the letters in the name of this same author are those of the geologist. The author is a geologist too by the way. 9th level is fine for a specialist of this sort. I imagine that maxed out ranks of 12 and the Skill Focus feat, and maybe even the Trivial Knowledge gnomish feat from Races of Stone(roll twice for Knowledge & bardic lore checks and choose the better of the two) would make him quite knowledgeable about his specialty. Besides, Maldin/Denis/Tuaren isn't 10th level yet, so he remains at 9th level until further adventuring takes place (i.e. he creates more maps and/or writes more material for Irongate, or anything else for that matter). Wink

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:39 am

Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:06 am

Perhaps he didn't spend his entire time in a library?

:)

Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:20 am

Lol - well yes but why does gaining experience from killing monsters HAVE to be a pre-requisite for a sage gaining knowledge? Some people might learn that way but surely a scholar who has never picked up a dagger in his life should still be able to have high bonuses to his knowledge skills?

Hmm maybe the commoner class with the Education and skill Focus feats might fit the bill more than an expert. Still not a perfect solution though!

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:24 am

If it helps, I dropped the expert to weak BAB and the warrior to medium. End result, experts can't fight any better than adepts and commoners and aristocrats and warriors are basically no different except for money and skills.

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:32 pm

PaulN6,

I have developed a system that will be submitted shortly, where NPCs gain xp as they age. You may find it more appealing than the adventuring sage model.

Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:02 pm

I guess I don't understand why sages, commoners, and other such NPCs need levels at all. Or necessarily even skill ranks. Are you actually rolling to see if your NPC sage knows the plot information the players are seeking from him?

I usually give them skill ranks just for my later reference (ie, so I don't forget what he's actually good at if I don't use him for a year or two), but otherwise who cares what his stats are? If he's an 80 year old non combatant and ends up in a combat, there's not really a lot of reason to need stats to determine his fate.

The age based system I'll need to see before I can properly comment. But I will say based on the preliminaries discussed in other threads that just being older doesn't mean better, even in purely knowledge based skills. Talent matters. A 60 year old mediocrity isn't going to be as high a level expert as a 25 year old budding genius.

Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:41 am

Ars Magika uses a point system based on age. Wizards start out very powerful, but they are kind of the focal point of AM. The main difference in AM is that points are used to buy everything, even attack and defense ability. If you make the mistake of NOT specializing whatsoever, you will be very ineffective at most things. The older you are the more skill points you have (to start with), but you can gain skill points by adventuring. You don't really go up levels in the game, just become more skilled. There are no hit points, but wound levels instead. A character with a low defense score and no armor, like a sage or most other Experts, is likely to be hit very easily, and get seriously wounded very easily.

If you like to study rules mechanics, I strongly recommend picking up a copy of Ars Magika. The magic system is great too, and is probably my favorite of any game.

That being said, the topic of npc power levels and abilities should be the topic of its own thread. This one is supposed to about Irongate, so back to that...

There is a chance, a *CHANCE*, that there may be a web enhancement for Irongate(other than Maldin's site that is). We will have to wait and see though.

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:28 pm

Actually, I'm quite familiar with Ars Magica (2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition). While it does have an age component in its exp calcs for NPCs and starting characters, its not a level based system so its not really comparable. Not to mention the lifestyle of ArsM Magi is just a teensy bit different from that of D&D wizard PCs :P

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:07 am

There is actually a very recent thread that discusses npc's. It is here:

http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2336.

Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:28 pm

I had been thinking of starting a new WoG campaign in and around Irongate for some time, and the article in 351 has certainly got my mind working on it again (even though it gave only the smallest bit more info!). I hadn't really thought about Cobb Darg's race or abilities, but I like the idea of him being a dragon in human guise.
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Greyhawk is dead; long live Greyahwk! It is not heresy; I will not recant!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:10 am

Is there any info on the nearby dwarf kingdom - I can recall only a few articles on magical sites in the hills...

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:29 am

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:16 am

Well in that case Holgi's realm sounds like it's ripe for a Canonfire article! Any takers? I bet the Onnwal Triad has useful information Idea

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:58 am The Iron Hills

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:40 am

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:17 pm

If I recall correctly, Dethand workd up an article on the migration of the dwarven clans, their history, and their relations. Perhaps he'll post a link to it here, or will put it up on Canonfire if he has not done so already.

Here is a link to one thread on dwarves, with links and other sources as well:

http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=927&highlight=dwarves

Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:34 am

LG Onnwal didn't really get into the details of the Iron Hills too much actually (though, like a hundred other things, I often meant to).

P.

Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:18 pm

Another thread, dredged from the depths!

I've never run adventures in Irongate, but I've always wanted to. I'll have to get Dragon #351 one of these days.