Beyond the Flanaess: The Oerth World-Development Project is dedicated to fleshing out the barebones of the World of Greyhawk Campaign Setting beyond the Flanaess.
I'd like to do a lot more with this and I'm interested in Tal Meta's Sunela Coast as well as Wolfsire's Zahindi work here on Canonfire and plan on contacting them if I haven't already.
We currently have an old overview on file of Oerth which will start us off.
Further, all articles will be added to the Oerth Journal as of OJ 26, which allows for about 6 months of writing and research time for authors. Later this week I will be posting all relveant research material for discussion. Subjects may be discussed in the Oerth Journal Writers Forumsor online using mIRC or the java link here on Canonfire. Simply connect to irc.otherworlders.org at the #oerthjournal or #greytalk channels.
Current projects/ ideas are as follows:
Baklunish West, Rhop "the lost homeland of the Rhennee" and many more!
The current team
Project Coordinator - Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Baklunish West overseer - Ed Healy
Authors -Adam Daigle, Amy Gillespie
Artists - ???
Editors - Dave Coalter, Brian McRae
If you're interested in joining this group feel free to post here or send me an email at oerthjournal (at) gmail (dot) com
We look forward to hearing from you. =) _________________ Cheerz,
-Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
http://www.oerthjournal.comhttp://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
I have some pre-existing work that was for a homebrew campaign that would be excellent for Fireland. I cannot find much in the way of canon. Is there any that anyone knows of?
Hi all -
Rick, is that a map that you've done? AWESOME, whoever did it.
OK, so the names there, we're taking those from the Dragon Annual map I take it. I thought there was some discussions about how sucky they were.
Also, I like Antaria but I don't think I've ever seen the mountain ranges you've produced on the map beforfe. Although, I've been out of CF! and GreyChat for a while now and maybe these have already been discussed.
The Tharquish Empire looks ripe for a Hobgoblin Nation. But the bulk of my question is what determines the basis for a national idea, or even a geographic ideal? Is that the map that has been decided as being the most "Canon" of all of this?
The way I've written my past OJ articles was to have as much "canon" research as possible and to fill in those blanks with my own ideas based upon that canon. When I get off my "getting-fatter" crapper, I'll be writting a Pholtus article for the OJ. From that I'll be using all the canon and generic-WotCHawk there is to set a good example and to have it as accepted as canon as possible.
Thus I'm asking who will be onboard to help determine what is/not as close to canon as possible. I know you as the editor of the OJ itself are defaulted as the "decider" of new "canon" but what about others that are the pillars of the community? I'm thinking the likes of Rich "ChatDemon", Gary Holian, Mortand (is he still around), TalMeta, Maldin (he should do the maps), M:tG (Marc Tizoc Gonzalez), Alan Grohe, even those that are not liked by the CanonFire forces such as Gene Wiegel, and Jason Zavoda (since this new OJ revival was re-started by him). I'm unsure of contact with Roger Moore or other WotC people, even if I don't like them or their works like sean k reynolds. Even if they're too busy to help write anything, skr's concepts with the core beliefs, his Scarlet Brotherhood and such are canon. Roger Moore did an excellent (the best in my opinion) 007, while his namesake maintained a positive stewardship of Greyhawk. Lisa "MegaBabe" Stevens may be busy with Paizo, but could we take away her title if she doesn't at least look at the "new" world of Oerth?
In addition to old people that have helped get CanonFire off the ground (it's been almost/ just past 7 years now), some of the new people that have been doing well with Living Greyhawk. Many do not subscribe to the LG side of Greyhawk (Hug your Heathen{tm} for the Pale?) but C.Broadhurst and whats his name - Stuart (he and I had lots of eLaughs several years ago) have been doing great things with the Mysterious Places (ok, both of them are old people). But remember BluSponge (Tom H), he got busy with another gaming system, but I'm sure he still has stacks of ideas from the old AOL folder days.
Now granted, you're very unlikely to get half of the people's names that I've listed (plus the dozens that I've left off) but attempting to get them would/ should be something. Since you're the project lead (by default, since you're the OJ editor, and the one proposing this), it would fall to you (don't look at me, I just spout Pholtus is Great, and pay some bills) to contact these people and twist their electronic arms (I mean, ask) to get their help or permission to use their crap willy-nilly. To help with this, on GHO (GreyhawkOnline.com, for those not in the know), Scott Casper started work on a "Who's Who of Greyhawk" fame. It's totally incomplete (how could I be missed) and I'm unsure if he ever finished it [another project for someoneELSE to finish if there were/are any takers!].
Be Well. Be Well Contacted.
Theocrat Issak _________________ Theocrat Issak
I agree with you Issak on the sucky names, but I have a simple suggestion for fixing that. The really bad ones are the silly names that explorers and fiction writers. This has a historic parallel: "El Dorado,"... Gold Place, or City of Gold in Spainish.
Then we give the place a name of appropriate uniqueness.
Fireland, for example, is known as Blinvidir by the natives, in the article I am submitting.
Sweet! I'd love to see a full article on Fireland maybe even a joint effort b/w abysslin and Anced_Math. Definitely get together and submit this, in the meantime I'll be posting more info here bit by bit.
Theocrat> Part of my getting ahold of ppl is using the forums here a lot of folks get started here. For writers like Roger Moore, SKR and the link I plan to be sending out emails. RJK has already offered to send me his notes on Lynn in time so thats one hoop I've already jumped through. =)
Antaria is my own creation and a filler for Aquaria, however if someone has an email address for Mr. Mentzer I'd love to contact him for more on that.
Further, I need to get in contact with Tal Meta and see if he can send me the details on the Sunela Coast.
Heres an old bit of info I had saved on my computer and some research material for anyone interested in this project.
GH LOG 14 - Bounds of Oerik
Combined edition with comments from others.
Compilled by Theocrat Issak for CanonFire!.com and GreyhawkOnline.com
Subj: Intro 1-5
Date: 6/16/96 10:47:46 PM
From: Iquander
Posted on: America Online
After a long while of promising the information, I'm finally satisfied with what I have enough to post it here. You'll find that I've takes certain liberties with some of the material, and that I've done a little to spice things up. Before I launch into the prattlings of the wizened old sage of Nellix Town, I thought it might be useful to explain where most of this comes from, and the major flaw inherent to the entire piece (if indeed we can treat a bunch of assumptions on grounds of "major" or "minor" flaws. . .).
In an effort to locate the realms of Oerth other than the Flanaess, I've had to cast my net rather widely, attempting to look into as many places as I could. Primary among these is the Glossography, wherein we first learn that the planet Oerth has four continents. The foremost of these (at least to the scholars there), of course, is Oerik. We know most of eastern Oerik, the land called the Flanaess, because that is the setting in which almost all official TSR Greyhawk products take place. There are a few exceptions to this, such as portions of Vecna Lives! taking place just west of the map of the Flanaess, and Dwellers of the Forbidden City taking place just south of it.
The further one goes from obviously defined "canon," however, the more one learns about the lands of Oerth outside the commonly explored Flanaess. In this way, Frank Mentzer's RPGA modules are invaluable (as are his comments in early editions of this folder), as are Gary Gygax's New Infinities novels and his Sagard the Barbarian "Hero's Challenge" series, co-authored with Flint Dille.
The most enlightening clue to the rest of Oerth came in the very first folio addition of the World of Greyhawk, and appears on page 18 of the Glossography. I refer, of course, to the small map that appears to show nearly the entire continent of Oerik. This map is invaluable in our search for foreign lands.
The first question we need to ask is "what are the four continents of Oerth?" Oerik is obviously the first. Roger Moore explained why he thinks Hepmonaland (of which we can see the northern portion in the two color maps done by Darlene and included in both the original boxed set and From the Ashes) is the second (Oerth Journal #3), and his evidence is quite likely to be the case. The third continent is likely the so-called Aquaria, or Aqua-Aerdy-- several thousand miles east of the Solnor coast of the Great Kingdom settled by Aerdi explorers several centuries ago. This is the realm of Frank Mentzer's current online campaign, and the setting of his RPGA modules. In some way, then Aquaria is official, at least in light of the fact that the RPGA modules were published by TSR, and they include notes on the history of Aquaria in light of the history of Oerth. It also holds the seal of approval of Gary Gygax, who, of course, created most of Greyhawk as we know it.
At this point, I would like to point out that all of this information probably violates what Gary actually planned in his own campaign, but as the man's _own_ TSR work did as much, I'll simply state it as fact and move on.
So, we've got Oerik, Hepmonaland and Aquaria. There has to be one more, but it isn't mentioned in any official TSR source. Or is it? In the conclusion of Dance of Demons, Gygax's final Gord the Rogue novel, Tharizdun returns to Oerth and ravages the entire planet. Gord and his friends Leda and Gellor attempt to outrun the awakened god of all evil. Witness the passage below:
"The three had been chivvied and chased across the whole of the world. From the distant South, through the Moving Islands, across Gonduria's vast continent, and thence across the Agitoric Ocean to western Oerik's shore." (402)
We can surmise a few things here. My guess is that the "distant South" is in fact the southern regions of Hepmonaland, as this would make the three's travels truly an adventure "across the whole of the world." I haven't a clue about the Moving Islands, but I would assume that they are northeast of the Aerdi Sea, perhaps just south of Aquaria.
What is "Gonduria's vast continent?" That's an excellent question, as it's the only time it's mentioned in even the extended canon. Oddly, Gygax's Sagard book, "The Ice Dragon," includes details on the "Gondorians," highly technological aliens allegedly responsible for the creation of humans on Oerth. The last book, "The Fire Demon," mentions a distant people called the Gundanese, who I assume by the context to live on the opposite side of the planet from Oerik. Perhaps all of these things are tied, or perhaps not.
Regardless, it seems likely that "Gonduria's vast continent" is the same place as Aquaria. It's likely that the residents on the eastern coast of the huge continent call it that, just as the Aerdi settled the western coast and brought their own names with them.
All of this leaves an entire continent for development, so there should be room for just about anything you feel like putting on the planet that is not otherwise there. Design your hearts out.
There is, however, a fair amount of information about western Oerik. For starters, let's look at the "Oriental" cultures first. For starters, we know that there are Asian-type residents of Oerth, in part because their dragons have appeared in official adventures. Admittedly, this is a rather weak link given the nature of Greyhawk's early design, in which whatever the designer wanted to insert into the world was generally accepted, but it's always nice to tie up loose ends. The existence of an Asian culture on Oerik (or at least on Oerth) would explain the origins of these dragons. I recently noticed that the heraldic device of the North Province of Aerdy contains what looks to be an eastern (western) dragon, and I'm open to any theories on that one.
The most promising evidence of an Asian culture on Oerth comes in the short story "The Five Dragon Bowl," included in Gary Gygax's "Night Arrant" Gord the Rogue collection. This is our first (and only) introduction to the Suhfang Kingdom, and I've included some information contained in that story below.
Other new countries and places come from Sea of Death (Chomur, Sa'han, Behow, Jahind and Mulwar), while others (the ill-named Hitaxia, Fex, the Vanain Confederation, Davann and more) are taken from the Sagard books. It should be noted that only a few of these are anything other than names, but I have chosen to elaborate only when necessary. I have not refrained, however, from making obvious or likely connections, and I have not always explained myself in doing so. Those curious will just have to do the research themselves.
Having said that, there is a fairly major part of research that I have neglected. I have only been able to locate the first, third and fourth (of four) Hero's Challenge books. While this might seem like a minor problem, that book describes Sagard's journey from Ratik (where the entire first book is told) to some southern realm. I've decided where _I_ want to put these lands in my own campaign, and really the only place they _could_ go, in light of certain maps included in the gamebooks, but the second Sagard book, if I ever find it, may prove me wrong.
Just to allay some fears, it seems pretty obvious that the Sagard novels are meant to be set on Oerth. If this is not the case, and they take place on Yarth, as mentioned by Gygax himself in Polyhedron, that world has at least a dozen countries that are almost exact matches, and calls itself Oerth, as well. I have no doubts that Gygax _meant_ to set his books there. He also _meant_ to publish the City of Greyhawk, Castle Greyhawk, Shadowrealm, and about a hundred other projects. Oh well.
I'm sure that some of the stuff I've discovered (or made up, for that matter) is bound to bend some people's noses out of whack. For that reason, I've presented the information in a way that certain sections, or the whole, for that matter, can be easily ignored. The more visually minded among you may wish to know that I'm am currently attempting to draw up maps of the Sagard areas, linking them to Oerik. When and if I ever finish these, you will be the first to know.
Iquander
Subj: Bounds of Oerik 1-14
Date: 6/16/96 10:50:14 PM
From: Iquander
Posted on: America Online
The Bounds of Oerik
Western and Southern Regions Observed
by Savant Iquander
Society of Sages and Scholars, Nellix
As you well know, my humble abode in Nellix is far from the salty bounds of Oerth's oceans. Landlocked as I am, it's rare that I get the opportunity to treat with those who rely upon the sea as a home, and so the origin of the present treatise is a curious one, indeed.
Nearly a year before the Great War, the month of Wealsun found me visiting a dying scholar in the noble city of Scant, north of the Azure Sea (which those of Onnwall insist on calling the Sea of Yar). While the lessons learned at the bedside of that worthy pedant will be related at another time, it is a tale I came upon quite by accident that forms the basis of this current endeavor.
It began simply enough, with a half-empty glass of Celenese Green and a humble tavern called the Forgotten Anchor (sources confirm, alas, that this establishment was razed to the ground when the Scarlet Brothers invaded last year). Nestled betwixt the quarter of Scant known as the Annals and the city's respectable harbor, the tavern featured an odd mix of well-mannered seafarers, as well as a more cultured, learned clientele, of which I was a member.
Well after dusk, the quiet of the place was upset by a dark skinned sailor, who burst into the place babbling in an unintelligible language at once both guttural and romantic. He appeared a mix of Baklunish, perhaps, and a darker cast, not unlike some of the natives of southern Hepmonaland. Assuming that this strange fellow was, in fact, descended from such savages, the sailors taunted the man while the scholars looked embarrassingly away. I, however, understood the urgency of the foreigner, and I followed him to his ship.
Unbeknownst to my erudite tablemates, a small trinket I picked up in the Bright Desert during my tenure as Duke Justinian Lorinar's personal historian allowed me to transcend the language barrier, and I understood the strange man's tongue. His plea was urgent, for his crew had finally landed off Scant's harbor that night after over a three months at sea. Half of them had died, food was gone, and they had become horribly lost. By his pleas alone, I knew the man as no Hepmon at all, and vowed to discover the secrets his ship might hold.
In retrospect, it would have been wise have requested an escort as I accompanied the stranger, but any confidence scam or mugging with myself as the target would end with little save disappointed and still-poor criminals, so I decided to follow the man, despite the risk.
It turned out to be a most fortuitous decision.
The sailor was a member of the crew of the Shakani Reaver, a sleek (though badly damaged) vessel captained by the privateer Damreeg the Rake. I was brought aboard and introduced to this worthy, who seemed unlike any man I had met before. He was tall and well muscled, and had olive-toned skin and very slightly slanted eyes. At first glance, I took him to be Baklunish (albeit a very large member of the race), but conversation soon proved differently.
In return for a promise of much needed supplies (which I eventually obtained from the Nyrondal embassy in Scant), Damreeg and his crew agreed to tell me everything they knew of their homelands and, in some cases, the lands beyond. Unfortunately, most of the Rake's crewmen were uneducated simpletons, and details often eluded me, despite the simplicity of my inquiries. I have included what information I was able to obtain below, though certain holes will become apparent to the careful reader.
My primary concern is that I have virtually no way to verify the tales of these men. Indeed, a few (such as the Isle of Batmos) seem so outlandish as to be solely the product of an imagination starved by months and even years at sea in a single outing. By this I mean to say that I encountered several strange men from cultures very different from those well acknowledged on the Flanaess, but I have no way, short of accepting the tales in their entirety, to know if what they told me is true.
I have chosen to include all of my findings below, and I leave it to astute readers or the unfolding of time and exploration to prove me incorrect.
Readying, CY 585,
Nellix
WESTERN AND SOUTHERN REGIONS OBSERVED
It is a fairly well-known fact that the Suel Empire, prior to its destruction in the Rain of Colorless Fire, stretched to the borders provided it by nature. On all sides, the Suel found themselves surrounded by mountains--the Southern Crystalmists (later dubbed the Hellfurnaces after the magical chaos of the war set off several dozen volcanoes simultaneously) to the east, the Grandsuels (or Sulhaut) to the north, and ranges to the south and west as well, whose names we of the Flanaess have lost to time. These borders, however, did not stop the expansion of the Suel in all directions. To do that took manpower and strategy. Of all directions, the Suel had the greatest luck exploiting their southern neighbors.
It is believed that the Suel controlled nearly the entire southern coast of central Oerik, and the lands that stand there now undoubtedly hold ruins constructed by that fell empire's eldritch magic. By all accounts, the people of the southern coast are as different from the Suel as could be imagined. They are a dark-skinned folk who stand, on average, between five and seven feet, the latter of whom are seen as more important within their society.
Social station in this land is, and always has been, of utmost cultural importance to the natives. Technologically, they are akin to the Baklunish, and it is said that spellcasting is a rare talent in this area, which perhaps explains how they were so easily subjugated by the Suel. Architecture of this land ranges from stone towers and squared buildings to ornate minarets, often within blocks of each other. The cities of the Southern Coast are said to rival Ekbir and Zeif in sheer beauty, and as architectural artifacts, they put the Flanaess to shame.
The names and nature of these lands has changed significantly over the millennium since the fall of the Suel, and four large nations are known to exist there today. Understand that few travelers from the Flanaess have visited this area, as to do so requires either an extended and treacherous sea quest or an overland trek across the Sea of Dust. Not surprisingly, then, what information we do have comes from daring and lucky mariners.
Beginning due west of the Amedio Peninsula, we find the small nation of Changar that stretches from the easternmost mountains that reach the sea to some 400 miles to the west. This is the most heavily Suel-influenced of the southern nations, and evidence of this can be found in both the racial admixture of the land and the architecture of the Changa's ancient seaport, Hatanagar.
Jahind, Changar's sworn ally, extends from the former nation's border to the next set of mountains that reach nearly to the sea, some 450 miles in all. The kingdoms are very similar (save that the Jahindi had more success in repelling the Suel and are thus "untainted" by pale skin and light hair), and Jahind is said to enjoy the benefit of a successful navy.
Mulwar, the next nation to the west, is a dangerous land buttressed by mountains to the north, east and west. It is said that the land is ruled by a cruel and cunning leader who, many whisper, is in fact an evil spirit, able to change his own form and bend the simple people of Mulwar to his terrible will.
Northwest of Mulwar, the immense Chomur spreads nearly the width of all Aerdy between three distinct mountain ranges. Chomur is more a wild region than an actual state, and many Suel refugees fled here during and after the horrible wars that shattered the Suloise Empire. In fact, the northern inhabitants of this land are nearly pureblooded Suel, even after all of these years. These people often war with their southern neighbors, and are despised by nearly every native resident of the land. It is also said that Oeridians mix openly with the darker natives of Chomur. Little else is known about this mysterious place, save that it is inhabited in parts by several organized tribes of hobgoblins.
West of Chomur, in a small valley, the Suhfang outpost of Behow stands as a gate to the wonders of the Far West. Though largely independent from the Suhfang Kingdom, the Behoise conform strictly to imperial laws and religion, a fact that gains them few visitors from the east.
Due north of Behow, the legendary land of Sa'han claims the title of easternmost holding of the Suhfang Kingdom. Like the empire proper, magic is said to operate on different principles here, and the art of the Wu Jen is practiced widely, as is a complicated from of martial arts that is believed to have been the origin of the forms currently employed by the Scarlet Brotherhood.
Both Western Realms have been adamant in their hatred for the Suel, and while many, many refugees have managed to work their ways into western society, they do so primarily as low-caste workers or slaves. The wars between these peoples are legendary, and animosity flows, still.
Aside from these realms, Suhfang dominates much of the rest of the continent. It is likely that an actual base of power, in fact called Suhfang, exists, but the name is also applied to the greater realm as a whole, and it is all rather confusing. Indeed, it is (quite embarrassingly) unknown whether or not the Suhfang Kingdom itself is even _on_ Oerik at all, as ample evidence suggests that it is in fact on the eastern shore of Gonduria's vast continent, across the Agitoric Ocean. Adding to the difficulty of matters is the fact that the Suhfeng Emperor declares the entire western half of Oerik under his care, despite the less absolute reality of the matter.
The culture of the empire is quite foreign to our own, and places great importance upon mysticism and the elements. This latter fact has caused the most arguments between the severe Suhfeng and the people of the east. Aside from the Bakluni, whose entire system of belief and much of their culture hinges upon the importance and veneration of the elements, the Flanaess views the elements (air, oerth, fire and water, of course) simply as a given part of our everyday experience. There are, certainly, eastern wizards who focus exclusively upon one of the four elements, and the followers of Telchur, Artroa, Sotillion and Wenta are often (incorrectly, I might add) viewed as elemental cults, but the elemental forces are not often considered by the average man of the Flanaess.
Not so with the Suhfeng, with whom the elements play, if possible, a more important role than they do in the Near West. In fact, many of the mages of these western realms are tied intimately to their land, and the inability of their most powerful magi to venture far from the site of their personal elemental connection is often cited as the primary reason this otherwise technologically advanced race has not been able to make itself a serious presence east of the mountain ranges that bisect the continent.
Not only do the scholars of the west place greater importance upon the elements, they also disagree as to the nature of elemental power itself. Westerners hold that, instead of the four elements generally acknowledged in the east, the multiverse is composed of _five_ elements. As proof, they offer the existence of the so-called "Imperial Dragons of Suhfang," apparently outer-planar dragons of largest size and power that come in a variety of five colors, each of which supposedly corresponds to one of the elements of the natural world (this relationship is further elucidated in Scholar Thu Kin Boh's extended treatise, Fo Ling-Ku (Elemental Structures), currently on reserve in the University Library at Rel Mord).
Apparently, these Imperial Dragons each correspond to one of the western elements and are said to live _within_ the elements themselves (whatever that means). Because these creatures reside outside of the Prime Material plane, they visit worlds such as Oerth and her four sisters only when they so choose--or are summoned. Golden is the color of the Fire Dragon, green that of Water, while blue is said to represent Air/Wind. The Imperial Dragon of silvery hue is Metal, and that with a shade of violet is associated with Wood/Nature.
Eastern scholars (myself included) scoff at the conception of the world as defined by five elements (as everyone clearly knows that "metal" is clearly a product of Oerth, and that "nature," as a force of life, simply does not enter the equation). Indeed, extra-planar travel seems to have assured that we of the east are correct, since beings have thusfar failed to locate a fifth elemental plane. This brings up the intriguing possibility that the Imperial Dragons and spirits of the western elements do not allow Suhfeng sorcerers the ability to travel off-plane, thus proving the fault inherent to their entire system of belief. Still, however, the Wu Jen (as most western mages are known) are a terribly powerful lot, and that power _must_ come from somewhere.
It appears that this cult of elemental dragons extends to the boundaries of the Suhfang Kingdom's vast empire (although, disturbingly, Nerull seems to hold some degree of influence, as well), just as do their strict and often draconian laws said to have been drafted over seven thousand years ago.
In fact, many of the Suhfang colonies south of the great bay that intersects southwest Oerik are almost wholly independent from this rule, despite the wishes of the greater government. Most prominent of these is the large theocracy known as Tsing-Chu.
There, a devoted caste of priests diligently follow the teachings of the god Khuzkan (a complicated figure who may or not be Pelor under a different guise), who implores them to scour the world, rewarding the actions of kind men and the dispatching of evil. Of course, Khuzar conceptions of evil often vary significantly from the morality of the rest of western Oerik (especially in the realms south of the Vanian Confederation), and this alone has been the cause of several prolonged disputes. The justice of Khuzar priests is swift and unflinching, and few understand what is happening to them before their sentence has been carried out.
Another spur in the side of Tsing-Chu's neighbors are the Tsongs, large groups of malign humans exiled from their homelands. These men and women prey upon the shipping lanes of the southwest, and are an annoyance to the people of the south, who view them both as a subtle diplomatic weapon employed by the rulers of Tsing-Chu and as proof that the "sentencing" of the Khuzar priests is often less strict within the nation's own borders than it is without.
One nation that has had particular problems with the Tsing-Chuans is the Vulzar Kingdom, a highly magical realm populated (if sailors tales are to be believed) by pale white humans with white hair and pink-to-crimson eyes. All descriptions of the inhabitants of the kingdom match exactly with descriptions of albinos of the east, and we can only assume that the entire population of the nation (or at least the majority of them) are likewise afflicted.
By all accounts, Vulzar is the most resplendent and decorated of all the nations of Oerik. It is situated in the western valleys of the Slate Mountains (the range that reaches southmost in all Central Oerik) and stretches to the warm equatorial waters of the Agitoric Ocean. The beauty of the Vulzar Kingdom is perhaps most evident in the architecture and local flair of Wii Shangazza, literally "Home of the Gods," the capitol and main port of the kingdom. It is said that every god in the multiverse holds a cathedral in this place, and while the truth of that statement is questionable, the city is said to have as many temples as residences.
While this echoes of Innspa, here on the Flanaess, Wii Shangazza is supposedly different in that each temple is thought to be the largest and most ornate of each god in the Flanaess. Vulzar legends claim that the gods themselves rested on their fair shores in the months following creation, and that the pure-white cast of their skin and strange eyes come from the blood of the gods themselves. Certainly, the land of the albinos is favored by some higher being, as they have resisted absorption by no fewer than three empires of antiquity.
To the east of the capitol, in the heights of the Slate Mountains, the barbarian people of Davann eke out a living by taming the wild mountain goats, bears and (supposedly) smilodons. According to legend, many creatures long-dead to the east flourish in the lowlands of the Slates, and one valley in particular is said to play home to several hundred dinosaurs, most of which have been trained by the Davanians, who have an affinity with beasts of all kinds.
The most common of their trained animals is the Davanian Bat, which they raise by the hundreds and sell to the highest bidder. These bats, large reptiles with a wingspan of over ten feet, provide excellent and (relatively) inexpensive short-range air travel for the rulers of the Vulzar Kingdom and the lands to the south. Just as Greyhawk has it's griffins and Enstad brags of Hippogriffs, so too does Wii Shangazza boast a company of Davanian Bat-mounted knights.
The relationship of the Davann to the Vulzars has ranged, throughout history, from total and complete peace to open warfare. Currently, relations seem to be strong, though the unflinching support of the Davann to their leader, whomever he or she may be, means that a veritable army changes philosophies each time a ruler passes away.
It is certain that the land east of Davann, between the Slate Mountains and the southwestern border of Chomur, supports at least a handful of small nations, though nothing is currently know of the region.
At -5 degrees latitude, the land east of the Slate Mountains cuts dramatically westward, forming the Gargian Bay. Within the southeast "border" of this bay, explorers will find the Hydrianian Island chain. The easternmost island, called the Isle of Slith, is inhabited by a foul humanoid race with many of the serpentine traits of the Yuan-Ti prevalent on Hepmonaland. If this is the case, the Slith represent humanity much closer to the base stock than the Yuan-Ti of the south, as snakelike features seldom exist here more prominent than a forked tongue or serpentine eyes.
The rest of the chain consists of explored but unsettled islands not larger than the Olman or Sea Princes outposts of Flotsom, Jetsom or Fairwind.
Due south of the Hydranians, several miles off the coast of the mainland, the Skull Island chain breaks the hostile waters or the Crimson Sea (so named for the blood-red kelp and algae that infest the waters of the entire region). This collection of some 24 islands are home to pirates and brigands of all variety. In fact, one of the most prominent islands, St. Koal, is the subject of myth and legend as far north as the Lordship of the Isles, though it is certain that none of those buccaneers have ever ventured to see it. As seafaring tales have it, when a skillful pirate dies at sea, his spirit travels to live among the legends who dwell at St. Koal. In comparison, the chaotic streets of pre-war Fairwind are stoic and well-mannered, indeed.
To the west of these chains, the mainland of Oerik thins to a peninsula some 1,200 miles across. This continues southward for nearly 350 miles (where rest the lands of the Vanian Confederation), where the land thins to a width of approximately 65 miles. The land continues southward for some 70 miles before widening drastically to nearly 900 miles and continues for 250 miles to the south (the land within being Hitaxia) where it widens to a thin strip of land no more than 25 miles from east to west. The lands south of this expand greatly and are covered below. I will, however, attempt to describe the lands south of the Slate Mountains before continuing too far, so as not to confuse the reader.
Directly southeast of the Vulzar Kingdom, a former empire now wastes slowly away under the gaze of ineffectual rulership. Long ago, after the magical chaos of the wars to the north ceased much of their activity, a powerful ruler from the city-state of Vane conquered the Skull and Hydranian Islands, thus ruling over an empire that extended to Hitaxia in the south to the border of the Vulzar Kingdom to the north. This ruler, Gargus Rex, ruled longer than most men live, but death eventually claimed him, and the wars of succession between his seven eligible sons are legendary. The outcome of these wars was the Vanian Confederation, a union of seven city-states allied in times of war and bitter rivals in times of peace. As the years that followed the wars of succession have, with few exceptions, been relatively peaceful, most of the city-states have diminished considerably in power, and much of the land claimed by one or more of the kinglets is, in fact, a wild region. The time of the Vanians seems to have passed on Oerth, and it can now be said that the confederation has left more ruins of itself scattered about the region than it maintains as livable dwellings.
As a whole, the area is heavily dominated by Hitaxia, which is truly the rising power of the southern realms of Oerik. Hitaxian slavers and privateers discourage Vanian vessels bound for Hatanagar and the ports of the north. For the most part, they meet little resistance, save for a small but dedicated fleet of privateers employed by the ruler of Shaka [of which captain Damreeg was, and perhaps still is, a proud member].
Most of the cities of the Confederation are situated on the coast of the nation, though Yate, the cultural center of the empire during the time of Gargus Rex, has a central location within the nation. Here especially, the citizens downplay the decadence of their realm, ignoring their military impotence and domination by the more powerful Hitaxians.
Religion among the Confederation is a strange mix of the native religion, southern tribal spiritualism and the veneration of a being known as Gak, who seems to have been the official patron of the Vanian Empire. Perhaps these once-proud people cling to his worship as a stubborn badge of the time of bounty that will never come again.
Other states in the region include Talea, Ecomia and Drakosia.
Immediately to the south of the Vanian Confederation is Hitaxia, the dominant force in the southern realms, and the only nation of the lot that is not either newly formed, wholly uncivilized, or in some form of decay. The greed of Hitaxia is practically a measurable constant to the people of the south, and it is this greed that has changed the ways of much of southern Oerik.
Just over 500 years ago, the Sultoon Rahman conquered the entire Hitaxian plain, and bulwarked his land armies against the amassing forces of the disparate Vanian Confederation to the north. He marched on the southernmost city-state of the Vanian Confederation and sacked it in less than a week, taking much of the hard-earned spoils of Gargus Rex's reign south to Tabu-Bel-Abu, Hitaxia's seaport capitol. Nearly all of this money was spent to build up the defenses of the city and improve the standard of living of his countrymen. The Hitaxians found this wealth to their liking, and soon discovered a method by which they might vastly increase the revenues brought in from trade with the south.
In an operation that lasted the better part of a century, Rahman erected a great wall of stone running east to west along the 25-mile-wide strip of grassland that acted as Hitaxia's southern border. This he plated with the finest marble quarried in Nuxes, to the south. The structure was a marvel to behold, but southerners knew the reality of the situation all too well. To start, the Hitaxians salted the fields for miles to the south of the Great Gate, and initiated rigorous tariffs both by land and at sea. The Hitaxian navy, which had always been strong, complimented Rahman's plan, and merchants who wished to trade between the southern realms and those of the north soon saw much of their profits going to the coffers of Tabu-Bel-Abu. While suffering from the disease that would take his life, Sultoon Rahman ordered the construction of a great palace and treasury in the capitol city, both of which still stand today. The nation thrived, and Rahman, after his death, was called "the Magnificent".
In the years that have followed, succeeding Sultoons have been at once more and less influential than that seminal ruler, and the nation is still the major player in the affairs of the southern realms, if not Western Oerik itself. Recently, the Hitaxians have taken to slaving raids on the Wuga jungle and northern island chains. The trade in manpower has been extremely lucrative for Hitaxia, and they have found willing customers in Chomur, Gyptic and elsewhere.
The Kodokii, who live in the Kush Kavi and are in fact exiles from Fex, have recently dominated much of the western jungle. They are a vicious people who are said to hunt humans for sport, and their eating habits are scarcely the material for an enlightened treatise such as this. Curiously, the Kodokii, who are in all other ways unremarkable in terms of technological achievement, seem to have mastered the art of short-term personal flight. It is not known how they manage to do this, since the wooden wings they attach to their arms _should not_ work. They do work, however, and it is perhaps the Kodokii's mastery of this craft that has allowed them to dominate such a large area in so short a time.
Certainly, a jungle so vast as this supports several tribes of humans (and probably a few humanoids, as well), but as the Wuga, Ginga and Kodokii are the most often encountered by civilized explorers, they are the only groups mentioned here.
Strangely, jungle tales tell of a secluded race of intelligent monkeys somewhere in the heart of the eastern Wuga land. These creatures are said to hold the lone Mt. Dolog as a holy site of extreme importance, and the ruler of this tribe is, by all accounts, a hugely powerful white-ape.
Aside from Mt. Dolog, about which little is known, the Wuga Jungle holds geographic beauty unparalleled in the east, recent discoveries in the Amedio and Hepmonaland notwithstanding. A mysterious lake just larger than the Sea Princes' Spendlowe can be found just north of Dolog, and two towering mesas known as the Gates of Death act as a beacon toward the region's unique salt flats.
The most mysterious structures in the Wuga Jungle, however, are those fashioned from human(?) hands. To the south, where the massive Putuma River marks the unofficial border between Wuga Country and Zymbia, a wide road of stone interrupts the wild of the jungle. Crafted from blocks some ten-feet square, the road has survived the centuries since its construction relatively well, considering no other trace of its makers survives. Some claim that this is a part of the colossal causeway constructed by the ancestors of the ancient Momboddo Empire, far to the south. (Similar roads at one time bisected much of Zymbia and Tanzula, as well, until the more aggressive natives there uprooted them from the oerth and used the massive flagstones in the construction of early cities.)
If the road had a destination, per se, it must have been the legendary Sanda-Uul, the City of Ivory. No one knows who built the city, but tales of its treasures, and dangers, have haunted southern culture for more than a millennia. The few madmen who have claimed to have found the city (its location seems to have always been a secret) claim that huge pyramids form the basis of the place, and that gigantic ivory statuary depict the rise (but not fall, oddly) of a great civilization. Remnants of that civilization allegedly still walk the tall battlements of Sanda-Uul. Though a few natives and explorers claim to have blundered upon the place, no organized expedition has been able to find it. Perhaps, in the steaming jungles of the south, some things are better left hidden forever.
To the west, across the Kush-Kavi, the deserts of Fex blow their chaos to the western seas. Originally a land of dark-skinned desert men, Fex became Hitaxia's dumping grounds after the construction of the Great Gate some 500 years ago. What was once a harsh but thriving crossroads between the civilized lands of the north and south is now a pathetic wasteland. In fact, in the years following Rahman the Magnificent, the desert has become even more treacherous than it was before, and many Fexians claim that the Hitaxians are killing their land.
If these people have any leverage over their northern neighbors, however, it is by the sheer luck of geography. Deep within Fexian lands, the Ebon River spills into Lake Ebon, where the Isle of Night stands as the final resting place of Hitaxian spirits. For their part, the Fexains disdain northern religion, and seem to worship a small pantheon unto itself. Whether these gods are unique to the region or merely aspects of the familiar gods of the east is currently unknown.
The Fexians use the location of the Isle of Night to great advantage in negotiations with the Hitaxians. Recently, in fact, they threatened to dam up the Ebon River, thus barring Hitaxian spirits from gaining the Gate of Fahderium, unless a series of concessions were granted to the southerners. While the greedy merchants of the north understood that for Fex to do so meant destroying the ecology of its northern regions, the Hitaxians eventually relented and agreed to let only Fexian traders through the Great Gate from the south. In actuality, however, the merchants have lost little, and they have knowingly employed bandits to raid what few Fexian caravans there are, thus encouraging the folk of Tanzula, Nuxes and beyond to conduct trade by sea.
Being made up of the outcast criminals of Hitaxia and having been strong-armed into poverty, the Fexians are a sour lot, content to raid each other into oblivion. Their despair has led them to several recent conflicts with the dark-skinned Tanzuli, the most recent of which caused the Kodokii to flee into the Kush-Kavi Mountains and beyond.
The folk of the grasslands of Tanzula are less desperate than their northern neighbors in Fex, and they reacted to the aggression of Rahman by sealing their own borders and becoming almost entirely self-sufficient. As the land of this portion of Oerik is much less populated than the Flanaess, there are few settlements of import in Tanzula. In fact, stating that they have any sort of government at all might be an exaggeration. As a whole, though, the Tanzuli protect their borders to the death, and they react to outside aggression as a unified order of savage fighters. They are far from primitive, despite their tribal organization. If there is a leader who presides over all of the tribes of Tanzula, that individual is not known to the majority of southerners.
It is believed by many that the Tanzuli are descendants of the dark-skinned inhabitants of the jungles of Zymbia who fled to this land centuries ago. Since then, Zymbia has been a lush wild region, said to be teeming with life but with death hidden behind every tree. If ever there were a place with more legends of evil, it is not know to scholarship. Given the harsh reality of life in the jungle, it's likely that most of these stories are wild exaggerations, but there is certainly something within the heart of the place that makes even the most brave think twice before venturing within its bounds.
Currently, much of the jungle is said to be dominated by the Ushad-I, an apparently human master of foul southern magics. If tales can be believed, this man, in order to stave off death, has pieced together a body for himself from the forms of captives brought from all reaches of the southern regions. The lengths to which the Usad-I will go in this are astounding, for it is said that he has changed entire heads several times in his long life. Perhaps more frightening, the Ushad-I has entered into a pact with the Fire Demon, Marduk, and now holds the southern tribes (with few exceptions) under his control.
Just off Zymbia's eastern coast lies Rarzuul, a large island that was once a home to a powerful mage said to have traveled to our own lands. Details on the matter, despite repeated inquiries, were not forthcoming.
The Zimbian Jungle ends in rough foothills known as Sala-Nus. South of these hills, the once-great Momboddo Empire is still a site to behold. Its structures are different from any known on Oerth. Some represent a perfect blending of living organic matter and strangely-cut wood, while others have been constructed from an almost impossible amount of metal. Domes are said to be integral to Momboddo architecture, and there is little land not utilized for some sort of farming. The people of the empire have managed even to tame the tropical mountains that act as the empire's western border, and their ocean vessels that ply the eastern and southern waters are said to be second to none.
Strangest of all (at least to our own pretensions) is the fact that Momboddo is a complete matriarchy. Somewhat like our own free-city of Hardby, but on a tremendous scale, women control almost every aspect of Momboddo society. It is to the oldest female child that all property is passed, and it is women who are deferred to in all matters of politics.
This is not to say that the Momboddo do not value men, only that their society is inherently slanted against them. It has not always been so, however, as stories tell of a time in which the male of the empire were nothing more than slaves used for the sole purpose of creation. In almost every way, their culture was, and still is, to a degree, alien to our own. And, as far as I can tell, there is good reason for this.
The Momboddo are, in fact, aliens themselves. Unlike the dark-skinned folk native to the south, they are olive-skinned, have sharply chiseled features, and smoldering, red eyes. There are many tales told in the north about how the people of the empire came to exist on our world. These stories are complicated by the fact that by the time the Hitaxian's ancestors began recording their history, the Momboddo were already in decline. In fact, it is said that Vanian explorers during the reign of Gargus Rex discovered ancient ruins of Momboddo design as far north as the Isle of Night.
The most commonly believed tale of the origin of the empire holds that the Momboddo simply appeared from great gates located on the Isles of Dreams, just south of Rarzuul off Momboddo's eastern seacoast. Those ancient travelers (or outcasts, according to Momboddo's enemies) knew they could not return, and eventually spread to the mainland, where they began constructing what would be the hub of a great empire.
The Momboddo brought with them the secrets of metallurgy long before its discovery to the north. Though the women warriors encountered little organized resistance from the inhabitants of the northern jungles, they soon dominated most of the land. Their rule was strange, for they merely asserted their control over the tribes and moved on, seldom building structures of their own, leaving the dense growth to itself in all save government.
The more or less barren plains that would once become Fex and Tanzula are a different case, and even today several structures stand in good repair in those lands. South of Tanzula, the Momboddo encountered the people of Gyptic and Nuxes, and taught these men and women their culture and technology.
Then, suddenly, the Momboddo Empire withdrew into itself, abandoning the empire at large and returning to the natural borders that acted as the hub of the empire. Without the guidance of the Momboddo, Gyptic and Nuxes abandoned matriarchy, but exploited the technology and artifice taught to them by their alien neighbors to the east.
Using the naval designs of the empire, the two nations began courting northern trade routes and eventually came into conflict with each other. After centuries of warfare, Gyptic lay in ruins, and sold its entire navy to its neighbor for a pittance (many suggest that this was not their own idea). Now, it is a poor nation, though a return to the religion and traditions of the time before the coming of the Momboddo has given it a rich cultural heritage.
The only thing rich about Nuxes is its merchants. Over the years, the renown of Nuxes craft work has spread as far as the Suhfeng, and their merchants eventually dominated the government of this land. For their part, the Momboddo seem unconcerned about the bastardization of their lessons, a feeling that is much appreciated by the men and women of Nuxes. The nation's capitol, Gavvard, rests on the south-westernmost outcropping of land in the Oerik continent, and has a splendid view of Tukotan, some thirty miles across the Gavvardian Channel (which connects the Sea of Rage to the western, Agitoric Ocean--also known as the Sea of Eternity).
It is clear that the Agitoric Ocean is not eternal, however, as there is a fair amount of travel between the far continent (called Gonduria) and south-central Oerik. Between the continents lies the near-mythical Isle of Batmos. There, men train huge fish as mounts, and a Batmosian fishing procession is said to be one of the most beautiful sights in the realm. They are said to be the most peaceful of men anywhere. One of the ways they have achieved this peace is by exiling all children who appear to have an evil streak in them. These individuals often terrorize the shipping lanes of the seas east of the Agitoric, mounted as they are on huge, saddled fish.
Beyond Batmos is Gonduria, a continent fully twice as huge as Oerik. There can be found the ancient cultures of Chadan and Gundan, said to be the oldest humans on Oerth. And who knows? Across that far continent, on the western shores of what we call the Solnor Ocean, perhaps the distant relatives of John Asperman, Aerdi's greatest naval hero, live out the Oeridian legacy fully across the great globe that is the Oerth. Nothing is impossible in the realms beyond the Crystalmists.
Subj: Re:Soon is Now
Date: 6/17/96 4:38:15 PM
From: Emirikol7
Posted on: America Online
Iq,
A great thanks for creating another hulk of information for neural digestion.
I've got a couple of questions on your marvelous(simply marvelous) project.
1. What is the name of the SouthWestern bay/sea jutting into the mainland?
2. Which side of this bay(east or west) are the countries of Tsong and Tsing Chu on?
3. About what degrees of latitude is the Vulzar Kingdom located at?
4. How far west does Mulwar extend? Is it just in that mountain valley?
5. What is the continent north of the 'Suhfang' plains?
6. What is the name of the Mountain range west of the 'Suhfang' plains?
7. Is the spelling officially SuhfAng or SuhfEng?
8. When you speak of Oerids mixing Chomurians, where in the heck did they come from? They would have had to cross two mountain ranges to get to that isolated valley. If they share the valley with the Suel, they probably have their own territories inside of it; unless they were slaves of the Suel.
9. What is the name of the old suel empire (now the sea of dust)?
10. What was the name of the old bakluni empire?
11. When you speak of Sa'han and the Scarlet Brotherhood, are you implying that the suel escaped to the east with this knowledge, or that possibly some beings from Sa'han were the ones gated onto the Tilvanot Peninsula for the "Fate of Istus" explanation.
12. Is there anything else you'd care to explain?
Em
Subj: Re:Now all we need is...
Date: 6/17/96 7:41:08 PM
From: Iquander
Posted on: America Online
>>>
1. What is the name of the SouthWestern bay/sea jutting into the mainland?
>>>
The name of this bay (or even its existence) is not mentioned anywhere in the Sagard or Gord books. I wouldn't even venture to guess (though I'm sure I could come up with something in a pinch).
>>>>
2. Which side of this bay(east or west) are the countries of Tsong and Tsing Chu on?
>>>>
First off, the Tsongs are outcasts of Tsing-Chu, not a nation of their own. Sorry if that wasn't clear. My guess is that Tsing-Chu takes up much of the land surrounding the east and south coasts, _west_ of the Southern Bay.
>>>
3. About what degrees of latitude is the Vulzar Kingdom located at?
>>>
Somewhere between 5 and 0, as I said in the file that the southern border stretches near the equator. That would mean that the mountain nation of Davvan is located mostly in the slates, but also in that little niche between 4 and 1 on the western slopes of the Slate Mts.
>>>
4. How far west does Mulwar extend? Is it just in that mountain valley?
>>>
Pretty much. Keep in mind, though, that that "little valley" is about the size of the Duchy of Urnst. Also, Mulwar extends to the sea, which makes it even bigger. I don't imagine that the borders of any of the Southern Coast nations are very stable,though.
>>>
5. What is the continent north of the 'Suhfang' plains?
>>>
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you're asking what's there, your guess is as good as mine. I'd put a ton of Suhfeng types up to about 35 degrees north, then mix in some semetic types. All of the former nations would have varying degrees of loyalty to the Empire, and the latter would be a thing unto themselves.
>>>
6. What is the name of the Mountain range west of the 'Suhfang' plains?
>>>
Again, your guess is as good as mine. I don't think there's _too_ much room to play with off the left side of the page 18 map, but I do think that Oerik and Gonduria's east coast are much closer than Oerik/Aquaria.
>>>
7. Is the spelling officially SuhfAng or SuhfEng?
>>>
Officially, as far as the word can be used in this context, the Kingdom and Empire are called "Suhfang." I have transformed this into "Sufheng" when I'm talking about the _people_ of Suhfang.
>>>
8. When you speak of Oerids mixing Chomurians, where in the heck did they come from? They would have had to cross two mountain ranges to get to that isolated valley. If they share the valley with the Suel, they probably have their own territories inside of it; unless they were slaves of the Suel.
>>>
Well, I've always sort of assumed the Oeridians are "people without a home," in that they are spread all over Oerik (the continent is, after all, named after them). By that logic, they would exist all over the place, including in and south of the ancient Suel empire. Perhaps they once had a great homeland, but, at least until the Great War, they were not unified.
>>>
9. What is the name of the old suel empire (now the sea of dust)?
>>>
Realize that not all of these questions are addressed anywhere. I've always called the Suel empire the Suel Empire, or Empire of the Suloise, much like the Roman Empire is called the Roman Empire.
>>>
10. What was the name of the old bakluni empire?
>>>
Likewise, I call this the Bakluun Empire, or Empire of the Bakluun, but you're on your own.
>>>
11. When you speak of Sa'han and the Scarlet Brotherhood, are you implying that the suel escaped to the east with this knowledge, or that possibly some beings from Sa'han were the ones gated onto the Tilvanot Peninsula for the "Fate of Istus" explanation.
>>>
I was attempting to imply that the Suel modified the forms of martial arts practised in Sa'han into their own forms, which were practiced/revived by the Scarlet Brotherhood.
I reject in all ways, shapes and forms the idea that the Brotherhood was not always a martial arts based organization, and that Kara-Turnas were gated actross the multiverse to teach them how to fight. That just sounds dumb to me.
Of course, I would be happier with an Oerth-based gate theory, but then I prefer to do away with the entire scenario.
>>>
12. Is there anything else you'd care to explain?
>>>
I'm happy to answer any questions, but it'll be tough for me to anticipate what people wil want to know for a while. I've tried to cover all the bases in my write-up, but I know for a fact that major gaps have been left--not because I left them, but because Gygax simply never invented them. I suspect I'll have lots more to say once I've read the Green Hydra (Sagard, Book 2), but for now, I'm just happy to field any questions.
Like this one:
>>>
What is the relationship between the Suhfang empire and the Baklunish/Oeridians to the east?
>>>
Again, this is never mentioned. Magus Yeo seems to have contempt for all things of Oerik, so my guess is that the relationship has been tenuous. There seems to be a vast difference inherent to the elemental theology of the Bakluni and the Suhfeng, so my guess is that this has caused lots of problems. Then again, proximity says that there are probably quite a few Suhfeng in Bakluna, while in the Flanaess, they are relatively rare.
I think Oeridians are tolerated just about everywhere, but they are not allowed into the upper ranks of Suhfeng society.
Iq
Subj: Re:Southwest Oerik
Date: 6/19/96 3:21:02 PM
From: Iquander
Posted on: America Online
>>>
What do you suppose lies south of the Gavvardian Channel by Nuxes. Could it be the last continent?
>>>
That's a good question. We're getting pretty close to the South Pole (if my measurements are correct), so whatever it is, it's going to be pretty cold. The text of one of the Sagard books lists a nation called Tukotan as being from the "distant South" (this from the point of view of a Hitaxian, so it's likely that that nation is on some sort of outcropping of Oerth's southern ice covering.
The descriptions of Nuxes, Momboddo, etc. certainly don't seem to hint at cold climes, though, so I'd say that the Oerth's tilt relative to the rotation of the sun around it (or the other way around) is such that the actual pole is not always frozen.
I have absolutley no idea about the scientific ramifications of this, however. :(
Article originally from 1996 Dragon Annual by Skip Williams
Ever wonder what the world Oerth looked like beyond the borders of the Flanaess? Wonder no more! The TSR staff and the GREYHAWK setting's original creator sketched out this map of Oerth in the early 1980s.
My Dear Mordenkainen,
I'm glad you found my doodles enlightening! I cobbled the map together from diverse sources - mostly the recollections of some the "old guard..” I can't vouchsafe the place names; doubtless the locals have their own names for many of the areas. Enclosed are some more excerpts from my journals.
-Heward
Baklunish Empire: More properly called the Baklunish Basin these days. A land of steppes populated by nomadic horsemen.
Barbarian Seameast: A windswept land covered with primeval forests where fiery but convivial tribesmen dwell.
Celestial Imperium: A vast nation peopled with a hard-working peasantry ruled by a complex bureaucracy.
Draconis Island (Dragons Island): Tales from the Celestial Imperium speak of a land ruled by a dragon prince. If such a place exists, it probably lies here.
Olvenamber Forest (Elvanian Forest): An enclave of lofty trees clinging to foothills rising from the desert below. Elves and other wild sylvan races dwell here.
Fey Realm of Fallen Leaves/ Ravilla (Elven Lands): It seems that eleven seafarers crossed to (the? RH) Solnor Ocean millennia ago and established a kingdom upon this peninsula.
Draconic Imperium of Lynn (Empire of Lynn): A sea of burning sands fill most of Oerik's western end. The fabled city of Lynn, perhaps settled by seafarers from the Flanaess, has grown rich from coastal trade and the desert's mineral wealth.
Erypt: An arid land ruled by a dynasty of priest kings.
Fireland: A land not unlike the Hellfurnaces region of the Flanaess.
Volcanoes and geysers sprout amid glaciers. A hardy folk dwells among the coastal fjords.
Domain of the Despotic Giant-King (Gigantea): A land populated by giants, or so I've heard tell.
High Khanate: An and land peopled by two tribes of sturdy nomads. The inlanders resemble the horsemen of the Balkanish (Baklunish? RH) Basin, but on the coast they take to boats.
Hyperboria: My own name for an icy continent whose interior holds Oerth's north pole and secrets even I have not fathomed. A semi-permanent bridge of ice connects the land to Oerik proper, but the crossing is treacherous at best.
The Republic of Ishtar (lshtarland): A land watered by southern storms and at least two great rivers. The city of Ishtar vies with the merchants of Lynn and the warlords of Tharquish for control of coastal trade.
Splintered Marches/ Naresh/ Mordengard (Kingdoms of the Marches): A temperate land filled with princely states. Perhaps another locale colonized by seafarers from across the Solnor.
Low Khanate: A companion realm to the High Khanate; named more for its location in a deep vale below the mountains than for any inferior status. A hidden valley reputedly contains the tombs of khans from both realms.
Nippon: A densely populated island nation of fishermen, warriors, and poets. Unsure of the place's real name.
Geitsakuru Dominion (Nippon Dominion): A protectorate only recently conquered by the warriors of Nippon.
Darak Urtag (Orcreich): A nation of orcs ruled by a tyrannical king. The orcs seem to thrive under the brutal regime.
Polaria: Not a land mass at all, but a collection of islands locked in a semi-permanent ice cap.
Exalted Imperium of the Crimson Throne/ Rhop (Red Kingdom): This land is so named for the color of its rocks. It's inhabitants remain unknown to me.
Suel Empire: You know this area as the Sea of Dust. Tales of its former glory is known to you.
Annexed Domains of Tharquish (Tarquis Dominions): An ancient protectorate of the Tharquish Empire.
Tharquish Empire: An island nation of seafarers who have ambitions that extend to the neighboring continents.
Plains of the Ellaves Tribes (The Tribes of Enllaves): A land of proud desert nomads who eke out a living on a high plateau that escapes the worst heat of the sand sea. A few tribes-men live in mud-brick towns built around central squares that contain steep-sided pyramids. I have never learned whether the pyramids serve as monuments, tombs, temples, or something else altogether.
Wall of Tsian: A massive fortification separating the Celestial Imperium from Orcreich, a formidable deterrent to anyone but the king of Orcreich. The Imperium has begun another, even grander wall farther west.
Zindia: A tropical land where rich cities rise from steaming jungles.
Celestial Sea: A warm shallow gulf where merchants from Erypt and the Imperium ply their trades.
Gulf of Ishtar: The privateers of Tharquish and the fleets of Ishtar vie for control here.
Gulf of Amun-Ra (Gulf of Ra): A deep body reputed to hide a kingdom of sahuagin.
Jothunheim Sea: A frigid body of water littered with icebergs. Giants ply the waters in great drakkars.
Myare' Mysticum (Mare Mysticum): A mystery to me.
Oceanae de Tempeste (Ocean of Storms): A region of gray sea lashed by endless tempests.
Oceanum Titanicum: The eastern-most extent of what you know as the Solnor ocean.
Pearl Sea: So named for the rich pearl beds found on Nippon's eastern shores.
Sea of Hyperboria: An ice-choked stretch of deep water where the coastal tribesmen of the High Khanate hunt and fish from hide boats.
Nipponei Sea (Sea of Nippon): A body of water made infamous by freak storms and enormous sea monsters - if the tales prove true.
Sea of the Dragon King (s): A deep arm of the pearl sea noted for its cobalt blue waters and teeming coral reefs.
Black Sea of Thunder (Sea of Thunder): A smaller, but no less violent, companion to the Sea of Storms.
You know, I've never read all of the old AOL stuff. I started, but much of it was "TSR sucks! I hate TSR!" and so I stopped.
A big part of the OW-DP will be figuring out what to throw out. Some of the early stuff was interesting to read, and even well-written, but not workable.
For the OW-DP to be a success, you really need all the heavy hitters to lock themselves in a time-suspension pocket dimension with a decade's supply of pizza and beer... Alas, that's not going to happen.
I don't know about that... depends if anyones supplying the free beer and pizza and if its delivered in a timely manner. =P
Anyway, thats why I am throwing all this stuff out. The next batch will be Chainmail references, unless you have them handy already, ephealy?
All of the material will likely go up on a hidden page on the Oerth Journal for writers until everything is set in stone, I'm also working on possibly setting up an ftp or just keeping it all going through my email and the OJ Writers Forums if ppl get involved. Thereby writers can discuss their material with others of similiar interests and everything meshes.
You want to move this whole discussion over to the OJ writer's forum?
Up side: Centralized location and the OJ forum gets more traffic.
Down side: The OJ forum gets less traffic.
Perhaps we could keep the discussion here, and in public, but ask people to preface their subjects with [OWDP] so people interested in those topics can find them quickly?
well thats what I meant really.
I just meant for the speculative work and author interaction to take place in the OJ Forums so that they see some use and draw some much needed attention there.
Talking here is fine as well I just don't want to spoil everything thats going to hit the OJ in the forums. Teasers are fine though =P _________________ Cheerz,
-Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
http://www.oerthjournal.comhttp://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
Rick -
The OJ site can host it's own forums - its pbb or something. I set something up like it on GHO one time, but didn't do much. And that's what the Pits of Evil have on the GHO site. So it's something do-able.
From what I read, you intend to have this project complete within six months? Seems like an awfully short time for such a massive project.
I'm unfamiliar with all the other regions. I just usually steal stuff from Kingdoms of Kalamar for all their really cool stuff.
As an example, last night's game featured several weapons and armor from Goods and Gear and was designed to be implied from an oriental area.
In an old post, I remember saying that one way to get and explain why we started learning about the other side of the mountains is that Ket makes contact and starts trading with the Westerners. The new spices and technologies is what the people of GH city find faciniting. This then creates a new reason for exploration. This is what could then bring gunpowder into the Flanaess. Although I think that would a mistake.
Be Well.
Issak _________________ Theocrat Issak
Just to throw my two cents in, which is almost tangential to the discussions, but...
The question was asked about what the "unknown realms" thought of the Flaeness? I've always thought that there hasn't been any kind of mixture from the farther west and east because of the Twin Cataclysms. Both of those were invoked by men. I would assume that A) the gods of these other lands have told their followers, don't go there! They are BAD people! Look what they did with creating the Sea of Dust, or B) smart people realize, hey, these guys slit their own throats by doing that, we don't want anything to do with them. The Flanaess is taboo.
Hi all -
I really like that analogy from the Westeners point of view. I haven't read any of Terry Goodkind's books after Temple of Winds, and that's been a while. But iirc, there were the Westernlands, the midlands and the far West which was were the baddies were kept. That is until the south came up from the Glass Desert and kicked butt. Don't correct me if I'm wrong, since I began to find the books were no longer in the same vein as Wizards First Rule and the next two books.
Using my Holy Knowledge (word play since hole-y isn't a word) of his books and giving an idea with what Supr posted, that makes very good sense. But of course, I'm sure someone with better memory recall than I (which is most people) may come up with an even better reason. Which also goes along with what Anced-Math wrote - we have silly names for the regions whereas they have cool names.
Which also goes - we're going to have to re-name and remake the gods. Sure some of the Bakluni and Suel gods can stay the same, even a couple Oerdian, but Flan? Touv? I think they should have their own flavor (which of course would be the region that I'd be most likely useful).
So when detailing the regions, I'd like to work with those authors to devise a plan for their gods and churches (of course, none will be as good as TRUE as Pholtus!).
And is this concept moving to another board here on CF?
Be Well. Be Well Remembered.
Theocrat Issak _________________ Theocrat Issak
The regions are in the OJ Writers Forums.
The only reason I haven't made forums on the OJ site is due to the fact they need to be constantly watched due to spammers, that I'd need someone with PHP knowledge to help, and b/c theres a billion forums out there already and its tough enough for me to have to remember all the damned passwords for each one. UGH!
Also keeping things here is good it keeps a solid relationship with Canonfire and encourages others to work together in a community rather than spilntering off into our own little sub-factions. =/
Anyway for those interested check the OJ writers Forums here on Canonfire for the ideas and speculations for Beyond the Flanaess. _________________ Cheerz,
-Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
http://www.oerthjournal.comhttp://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
Btw; the original post, looks interesting but I thought the article Baklunish West: Rhop "the lost homeland of the Rhennee was problematic since it is accepted Rhop origin as planar, another world entirely or am I completely off base?
That brings up a point that I was waiting to discuss with Duicarthan, which is what exactly did he have in mind as far as consistency (and an article in general). There will certainly be contradictions, and I do not want to compromise much the principles that I am working with avoid that. (Canon, EGG, utilization of India themed modules, even if they are from the Known World or Forgotten Realms, reliance on older maps that developed this area, consistency with others’- not necessarily in that order).
Compare what I have done with Tal Meta's Sunela Coast. They are really nothing alike. According to his map, my work is very different from what Duicarthan had in mind for the area. I am fine with being the heretic, as well as trying to minimize that. I think some guidelines need to be developed. _________________ Plar of Poofy Pants
twenty years a Greyhawker and recently back after some time away, looks a good time to get involved in things again.
Reading this thread, it's certainly looking very interesting and I have stuff going back years which could be included in this.
Meanwhile I have submitted an article to Canonfire a little while ago (I think I called it 'To the ends of the Oerth') which hasn't gone up yet. It discusses some of the problems arising from trying to square the information from the 83 boxed set with the Dragon Annual map, following on from the articles by Roger Moore and Gary Holian in OJ 3 & 4 (which were written before the Dragon Annual map was published, it's that long ago). Basically the idea is that there are plenty of us who think the map is, er, somewhat lacking in brilliance, but would like to include the material where possible - of course, plenty of DMs have a totally different map for their version of Oerth. CF. what Wolfsire has written above.
Without recapping all the article here, some of my points were:
Oerth is supposed to have 4 great oceans and 4 great continents ('83 boxed set, LGG - of course, this could be very wrong!), but there aren't that many on the map! There seem to be two regular oceans (Solnor and the 'Ocean of Storms' or whatever you want to call the ocean south of Oerik), plus perhaps the Dramidj as a polar ocean - where is number four? (I think this has been discussed on the wizards boards a while back). By the way, I'm pretty sure back in '83 the Dramidj was not intended to be a polar ocean, but to extend around the west of Oerik.
Is Hepmonaland a continent? If it is, at roughly 2.4 million sq. miles on the map (this is incorporating Gary's map corrections from OJ4) it's somewhat smaller than all of the Earth's continents (our smallest is Australia at 2.9 million sq m.). So if Hepmonaland is not a 'great continent', are we missing one? Or should we make it bigger than is depicted on the map (or in the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory), as Roger E. Moore suggested? Remember he was writing before that map was published. There's also the issue of Hyperboria...do we include that as one of the four?
The supercontinent of Oerik as depicted on the map extends almost two thirds of the way around the Oerth at the equator (again, incorporating Gary's correctiosn from OJ 4) which really doesn't leave room for much else (say Aquaria). And some of the territories in the west are really big - most of us don't include the 'Sundered Empire' in our campaigns because its feel is pretty un-Greyhawk-y but if you were to do it these countries would be huge in comparison to the Flanaess.
I also pointed out some of the changes made between Dragon annual map and the inset map of Oerth in the 2000 Living Greyhawk map:
Basically Fireland was moved to the west, the land bridge between Oerik and Hyperboria was cut (this change had already been made in Chainmail maps of the Sundered Empire, and is in line with the original text from the Dragon Annual which said it was an ice bridge).
The main change was to the southern continent (Antaria as Rick/Diucarthan has called it, Ana-Keri elsewhere). It is important to note that, if we include Gary's corrections, the Dragon annual map did not quite show a full 360 degrees of the Oerth; a chunk was missing in the Solnor Ocean and between the western and eastern edges of this southern continent. The 2000 map simply joined the two ends of that continent together, eliminating millions of square miles of uncharted territory and coastline and making the southern continent a lot smaller. Rick's map is very impressive but it has the same issue. Incidentally the 2000 map also made the Solnor too wide - as depicted there, the Oerth has an equatorial circumference much greater than it is supposed to be (25200 miles).
Also a few observations on Hyperboria - it's a similar order of size to our Antarctica, but somewhat bigger, and in particular the 'arm' or peninsula which extends down to Oerik is quite a bit bigger than the equvalent arm of Antarctica which extends up toward South America.
There's also a lot we can do with islands - Fireland is a good example - it's huge, and ripe for development, as other people here have noted.
I offered a few suggestions for 'tweaking' the map (others have made some of these before) - we can change all those lame names of course (Arypt, Nippon et al.), but can also modify the coastlines if you like - shrinking the western part of Oerik a bit, or even shrinking it and breaking it off into the ocean (you can make it 'Gonduria' if you like) can give you 4 continents and oceans, and still leave plenty of space for further additions.
There's some more material I was going to stick in as a part two of the article, in particular pertaining to climate and weather patterns, Oerth's axial tilt. But for magic etc. the weather on Oerth should be a lot hotter than it is (not colder, which some people seem to think). We all know 60 degrees north and south are the polar circles, but often forget that 30 degrees N&S are the tropics - 30 N runs close to Rel Astra, Niole Dra and plenty of other places you probably didn't think of as 'tropical'. I've got some other stuff on the Sea of Dust and other wildernesses, and things like trade winds/currents (e.g., if sailing east across the Solnor, you're probably best taking the northern route; on the return you'll be sped back by trade winds, unfortunately they will bring you to northern Hepmonaland where you'd better watch out for the reefs of Turucambi!....
Hi all -
Welcom back Efnisien.
I must agree with you regarding the weather. I have one of those 4" binders with the old FtA map as well as several other maps, all dedicated to understanding the weather of the Flanaess. I was using the OJ 3+4 from Gary and Rogers articles relating to the idea that the original maps are off in terms of generically saying that each hex is ~35miles. I don't have that big binder here, but I started it late 2001 and remember having the maps out and tracing lines and determining each cities longititude and latitude according to that map. Of course with the Dungeon map out, that certainly changes a few things (however, I laminated my maps and began to tape them togeather into 1 huge map, but was never able to get everything to line up "just right."), such as new cities and older ones now being gone. Plus my math was pre-Bachelors.
But from my notes I was taking all canonical sources that related to the Oerth as the center of the universe and how that may affect some things, such as weather. I also took stuff from SpellJammer GreySpace as well as the original 1st Ed as well as the 3e Ed Manual of the Planes to get a greater sense of where GH stood in the fabric of the universe (eat your heart out forgotten realms!).
Of course, I'll go back to that massive tome to finish some of my work and update it. Although it was designed to give each city of the Flanaess a working Long/Lat lines and directly place prevailing wind patterns and so forth it may be able to help aliveate some of the issues we're having now.
In knowing that a torrential rainy season is what makes India, India (well so does having those huge mountains) that may play a role in shaping a conceptual nation. And lets not forget that EGG also produced (with Frank Metzer) several other products from the New Infities Line - such as Greek Africa (hard to find, but I did scan it in years ago, and although I did lose my pdf hdd to failure, someone is likely to have a copy of that scan).
I liked the idea of Greek Africa for Hepmonaland, but also the general principle. I do not see why we need to copy real earth national concepts. As I pointed out, torrential rains is one of the things that makes India, India. Thus, if we attempt to create our own Indian culture or nation, we then must also worry about those things that helped to bring about that cultural concept. What made the Persians so poweful, what makes their beard hair so different and able to point down like that. How is it that the Indian/Pakastani people's skin color are so vastly different from those of the surrounding regions (Persians to the west, Mongolinans, and the Asian people to the north and east). Thus if we devise our own national standards and trends - much like the more logical and creative Kalamar setting (with its own history and examples, yet still having an oriental flair) we make it seem like its own world. As it is, EGG/RJK and others really took vastly different concepts and "smashed" them togeather to come up with the races and concepts, and we need to follow that line of thinking.
That's all for now, as I'll end up off on some weird tangent that I won't even be able to follow.
Be Well. Be Well Considered.
Theocrat Issak _________________ Theocrat Issak
I would like to throw in my support for the idea that we don't have to ape real-world cultures all over the earth (no, that's not another dig at the Realms). There's certainly room for some of that, but also for a lot more unusual stuff.
I remember vaguely the NI Greek Egypt (Aegypt was it?) and there's definitely space for some 'what ifs' or mash-ups of real-world cultures. Now, for example, I've never been a fan of dropping Egyptian-style cultures into a pseudo-medieval fantasy world (again, I'm really not having a go at the Realms!), but if you wanted something analagous but more mysterious and interesting look next door to the real-world kingdom of Aksum which existed in late antuquity/early middle ages and built various fantastic obelisks and monastery complexes.
I suspect the Sea of Dust and mountains all around could have a similar effect to the Thar desert of India in bringing a summer monsoon from the southern ocean - just the thing for those who want these regions of lower Oerik to be a Jahind/Zahindia/Zindia in terms of climate.
I think the main thing we must always remember though, is that this is a world designed for gaming - making it interesting and consistent is part of the fun of being a creative DM, but at the end of the day you want landscapes and cultures which are ripe for exploration and adventure. Easier said than done, of course...
For Zahindia, I've gone with the map showing most of the area as mostly desert with some modification. Consistant with the Dragon annual, cities are in teeming jungles, hence jungles on the coast. Also forested highlands. The Storm Giants play a major role in this. Frankly, I think it is easier and more interesting than trying to delacately balance Indian climate with what should exists given the location of Zahindia- Sea of Dust, Equator, etc. Works well for incorporating Desert Nomads too. YMMV. _________________ Plar of Poofy Pants
The next batch will be Chainmail references, unless you have them handy already, ephealy?
Some. Various articles on The Sundered Empire ran in Dragon Magazine. I'm not sure if the following list is complete, but it's a start:
285 - The Empire of Ravilla
286 - Ahmut's Legion
287 - The Armies of Thalos
289 - The Gnolls of Naresh
291 - People's State of Mordengard
292 - Drazen's Horde
293 - The Free States
294 - ?
295 - The Children of Nassica
296 - The Ebon Glaive
297 - ?
298 - ?
Some highlights:
- The timeline only goes back 500 years, with vague references to a Demon War in the distant past.
- Human tribes known as the Baklien arrived in Ravilla (elven kingdom) in 289 CY. You would think they were related to the paynim ancestors of the Baklunish peoples, given the name, but I think that's just a coincidence. After all, they are led by Stratis, an Oeridian god of war.
- Thalos, an Oeridian island nation, has gnome allies and trouble with kobolds.
- Sorcery is outlawed in the elven nation of Ravilla. (Wizardry is not.)
I don't feel right posting all the notes I have, as they're (c) material.
The Baklien could work if you assume that the Baklunish and Oerids shared a common ancestor people that inhabited the steppes north of the Celestial Imperium way back in the when. Some Baklunish and then Oerids went east (Hegira; Migrations). Other Oerids went west (Thalos). Some may have remained in the original homeland and formed some sort of mixed Baklunish/Oerid culture (or kept aspects of the original common ancestor culture with a couple of millennia of social evolution thrown in on top).
The next batch will be Chainmail references, unless you have them handy already, ephealy?
Some. Various articles on The Sundered Empire ran in Dragon Magazine. I'm not sure if the following list is complete, but it's a start:
285 - The Empire of Ravilla
286 - Ahmut's Legion
287 - The Armies of Thalos
289 - The Gnolls of Naresh
291 - People's State of Mordengard
292 - Drazen's Horde
293 - The Free States
294 - ?
295 - The Children of Nassica
296 - The Ebon Glaive
297 - ?
298 - ?
Some highlights:
- The timeline only goes back 500 years, with vague references to a Demon War in the distant past.
- Human tribes known as the Baklien arrived in Ravilla (elven kingdom) in 289 CY. You would think they were related to the paynim ancestors of the Baklunish peoples, given the name, but I think that's just a coincidence. After all, they are led by Stratis, an Oeridian god of war.
- Thalos, an Oeridian island nation, has gnome allies and trouble with kobolds.
- Sorcery is outlawed in the elven nation of Ravilla. (Wizardry is not.)
I don't feel right posting all the notes I have, as they're (c) material.
DRG 294 Was on running underground scenarios and has lots of info about the underdark of the region, centered around the ruins of the gith empire of Zarum. Interestingly some stuff about Celestian.
DRG 297 Was basically an enhancement for the Ghostwing Campaign product for Chainmail. Very little useful info.
DRG 298 Is more underdark stuff, introducing the Kilsek, an exiled drow clan from the Vault who migrated west into the ruins of Zarum.
In addition to these is an article in DRG 315 focused on the hobgoblins of Drazen's Horde.
Question: How are geographic conflicts resolved, or are they? I might be able to tune up, expand, and revise Lo Nakar to fit with this, but ephealy has done some stuff (which looks really, really, cool, btw) that makes it that much harder to squeeze the city in. I -don't- want to push his stuff out, and I can move the city somewhat, but there's no guarantee it won't butt into something else.
Or do we just go ahead and let people use whatever they like?
Also, for those who didn't notice, I posted a long series of posts from Roger Moore on "GreyIndia" in the Zahind thread in the writer's forum.
You know, I've never read all of the old AOL stuff. I started, but much of it was "TSR sucks! I hate TSR!" and so I stopped.
I assume you were reading the raw logs, then (where did you find them?)
Try the "Best of Greyhawk" files; those are cleaned up versions of the first 10 logs (I actually finished through 12, I think, but 11 & 12 were never posted. Heck, I'm not sure 6-10 ever made it up here).
Ok, I found the old Fireland Information. I would like to email this to one of the editors, and get some initial feedback prior to full conversion. Who wants to take a shot at some reading?
I'm laying claim to the Barbarian Seameast. No Vikings here! Think more of Conan type barbarians.
Also, I won't be paying much attention to the Chainmail material, as it is admitedly shoe-horned into Greyhawk. I'll not mention the name of the author who told me this though(burning bridges is bad and all that). It was hack n' slashed into Greyhawk rather than surgically implanted basically.
EDIT: after having actually figured out just how HUUUGE the Barbarian Seameast is, I'll just be organizing the area and fleshing out just a few regions of it.
As a mostly solo project I'll instead be doing the Empire of Tharquish and the Tarquis Dominions/Annexed lands, which is already under way. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I just finished reading all the posts concerning the Beyond the Flanaess project and this was the information I picked up in regards to dragons...
1. Draconis Island (Dragons Island): Tales from the Celestial Imperium speak of a land ruled by a dragon prince. If such a place exists, it probably lies here.
2. Draconic Imperium of Lynn (Empire of Lynn): A sea of burning sands fill most of Oerik's western end. The fabled city of Lynn, perhaps settled by seafarers from the Flanaess, has grown rich from coastal trade and the desert's mineral wealth.
3. The Republic of Ishtar (lshtarland): A land watered by southern storms and at least two great rivers. The city of Ishtar vies with the merchants of Lynn and the warlords of Tharquish for control of coastal trade.
4. Sea of the Dragon King (s): A deep arm of the pearl sea noted for its cobalt blue waters and teeming coral reefs.
Ok, here's what I am thinking.....
I think the dragon article(s) idea is huge in regards of the amount of information that needs to be included in order to do it correctly. The idea of doing the article stemmed from my desire to incorporate dragon kingdoms into my own Greyhawk campaign, and once I started writing, the ideas grew and grew in regards to it being done correctly. It seems like a natural idea considering Greyhawk is the first official campaign and the game includes dragons within it's title.
My daughter is quite familiar with Dragonlance and so I pick her brain to avoid crossover ideas with this setting....the dragon kingdoms should be completely different than Dragonlance and in my opinion, incorporate as much information as possible that we find in the Monster Manual, Draconomican, Dragon Magic, and Races of the Dragon, so I will be referencing these books heavily.
The original backdrop story I had in regards to the dragon kingdoms appearing in the Flanaess in short, is this......
Origin of the Dragon Kingdoms
One hundred centuries ago, Oeriks dragons originated from what a few learned scholars refer to as Dragon Island or Draconis Island. This island, located near the center of the Celestial Sea is where Io is said to have created the first of dragonkind.
Io was the first of the many gods to create a race of creatures which would come to dominate the lands of Oerik. As his creation was first to appear, the gods agreed that none others shall come to match the glory and majestic heights that the dragons would achieve, and so all other races to come were limited in their capacity to rule Oerik.
Though the creation story of these majestic creatures goes beyond the text of this scroll, what is known is that Io soon learned that the original ten species of dragons were unable to live in harmony amongst one another as a result of the varying alignments they possessed.
As with all creatures that would come after them, the dragons were created with fault and it wasn’t long before their flaws emerged. Living in a world void of other creatures which could challenge them, dragons took to quibbling amongst one another over petty differences such power, territory, and philosophical beliefs such as good, evil, death, and justice.
Io quelled these disagreements but eventually tired of his responsibility and chose to settle these differences by creating even greater dragons which would be taught various views Io held as consistent with his nine facets of the alignments. These instructors would be revered higher than any mortal dragon created yet not above himself. Birth had been given to the many draconic gods and so it became their responsibility to teach dragons the views in which their creation was intended.
Io realizing that conflicting beliefs would be passed on to his dragons; he recognized that issues may never be resolved and as such was not his intention, for he foresaw a greater picture, one that would shape an entire world, one that would bring other races to fruit, one that would become Oerth itself. But first, he knew a storm within the very shores of his island would brew, one that cascade waves of terror and pain, one that he was ready to accept in order to achieve everything he was, thus came the Night of Darkness and Dissension.
Of the lesser draconic gods Io created, only one challenged his rule; that creature known as Tiamat. The five headed dragon had always had a relationship of turmoil with the other dragon gods as a result of her alignment and five heads, each with a varying personality, yet whose goals remain the same.
Being the deity of destruction, greed, and trickery, Tiamat began to covet the position held by Io. Her father, the great dragon, recognized this trait and planned to exploit it for the good of Oerik. In a way Io had groomed Tiamat for the desires that dwelt deep within her tortured soul, for he had taught her these traits in order to pass them along to the evil dragons as her alignment was as that of one of his nine.
For several centuries, Tiamat consorting with the greatest of her evil dragons, preparing them for her eventual conquering of Dragon Island, yet Io waited patiently for Tiamat to make her move. While waiting most patiently, Io began the second part of his grand scheme, teaching his children the rise of civilization.
In the centuries that followed, all of the races of Oerik floundered, none of which being capable of rising higher than the primitive beings they were, all living day by day, without thought of the future or being able to work in cooperation with one another.
Night of Darkness and Dissension:
Dragons of varying colors, all evil in nature, were brought forth by Tiamat as they were summoned once a year to pay homage to their greatest of gods. This ritual served to remind all of the true hierarchy of the dragonkind. Upon entering the great lair of Io, Tiamat and many consorts struck a blow so deep, that it crippled Io. Saved by Bahamut and his consorts, the great dragon god survived.
Believing that her treachery would cost Tiamat her life, she fled Draconic Island, taking with her an army of evil dragons to assure her survival. Instruction was passed on to Bahamut to follow Tiamat, to chase her to the ends of the Oerik, but yet with all of this, not to destroy her, merely wound her as he himself had been wounded. Such was the master plan of Io.
So spread the evil dragons throughout Oerik, all under the orders of Tiamat to go forth and subject the world to her terror. So spread the good dragons throughout Oerik, all in search of their traitor goddess and those she ruled over.
In the depths of the Great Lair, Io nursed his wound, aided by the compassion of his most benevolent daughter Tamara. In the recesses of his sanctuary, Io looked thoughtfully upon his achievement and knew that his sacrifice would shape the world of Oerik.
Knowing that the many other gods were creating their favored races and dispersing them amongst the lands of Oerik, Io believed that it to be his responsibility to serve as the example how was civilizations should arise. With his understanding of all nine alignments, Io called upon his draconic races to establish kingdoms of various sorts, and as such was the beginning of civilized living within the sphere of Oerth.
Knowing that the many other gods had agreed to not allow their creations to exceed his, Io believed it to be his responsibility that dragons serve as the examples of all other races, including those which had already been created and those who were to follow in the centuries to come.
By this time, the many other gods of Oerik had created their favored races, though each was in its infancy and had yet to reach a civilized state.
And so the story continues about how the dragons spread out through the Flanaess and selected terrains which they preferred, and slowly reproducing in order to dominate the lands they claimed.
Rick....Each dragon kingdom (at this point anyway), encompasses a portion of the Flanaess, this is where the majority of the dragons of that color can be found (example, the black dragons have the Amedio and Hepmonaland, Pelisso Swamp, Scarlet Brotherhood, on up to the Rieuwood Forest.
Other dragons of that color can be found elsewhere, but it is less common. Some of these dragons serve as scouts/spies for their masters, others were expelled from the original kingdom (or more likely their ancestors were) which allows DMs to incorporate various dragons all around, but yet retain a strong color influence geographically.
Each kingdom would go into locations of key dragon lairs (generally those of mature adult and older, being placed on the maps. There is mention of previous dragons (those who started each kingdom and those who also had a significant influence upon the dragon kingdom).
In addition, the material covers how the dragons relate to the common humanoid species of their territory, such as humans, dwarves, orcs. and so on, and goes into their relationship with one another.
For example, in the Scarlet Brotherhood I have it written that centuries ago a black dragon made a pact with the Scarlet Brotherhood when the SB was just getting started, to require black dragons of adult age to serve the humans as steeds, coastal guardians, that sort of thing, for 100 years each, in return, he and those dragons get a huge gold piece/magic kickback. Now most of the dragons going into this pact hate it, but still honor the pact (more out of fear if they don't), and when they are done, they are very wealthy dragons to say the least. This also is a big impact on the Scarlet Brotherhood in regards to strengthing their kingdom and and then some.
I can continue with the work, and present the origin and black dragon kingdom as 1 article, which is fine, or we can move the whole idea into Beyond the Flanaess as you mentioned....or both.....
In the Flanaess, each dragon color will need its own article.....if to be done right, anything less would be a loss.
Here's some ideas to work with the Empire of Lynn...
Draconic Island could be where the last direct child of Io still lives, being handed down much of his father's work....thus the dragon prince....
You have mentioned that the Empire of Lynn is a "sea of burning sands" so I assume desert terrain. Also you mention a large city of Lynn....I don't know how much (if any) of this is canon but we could have the dragon empire destroyed (though that's been done with the Sea of Dust and Bright Desert already) and what is left is desert (seems like overkill on the destruction of lands idea).
Perhaps there is a surface world of desert and a dragon kingdom below ground (essentially a entire series of caverns and tunnels large enough to hold actual cities and countless dragon lairs). Maybe the desert is some sort of magical illusion of sorts to keep others away from the dragon kingdom.
The city could be humanoid-like draconic creatures using some of the races in Races of the Dragon, rather than it be any other race such as humans dwelling there, though their could be crossover, and humans, elves, whatever, are secondary citizens (thus the merchants, coastal trade, etc.).
And the Sea of Dragon Kings could be worked in, my first thought is adding new species of dragons or maybe incorporate those dragons who can breathe and dwell underwater.
And then there is the Greyhawk Dragon.
Anyway, are you more interested in Dragons of the Flanaess or should we move it to the Empire of Lynn, or both....assuming some of these ideas are of interest to you?
Also, I would like help with maps, regardless of what direction we take...is that possible?
Sorry the post is so long, maybe others want to jump in and give us their ideas as well. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
Rick and I were chatting about dragons a few weeks back. Rather than have straight up serpentine oriental dragons in the west, they possibly could be simply variant species of dragons as we know them....
...but, adding in the very different Oriental dragons like the Pan Lung(one of which is actually featured in I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City, located off the Pelisso Swamps in Hepmonaland) and others would be great, as they are so different. These different sorts of dragons could simply be more common in the west, where there will apparently be a few nations of Oriental flavor. Lynn’s “burning sea of sands” is not much of an issue, as dragons are mostly impervious to simple things like the basic elements of nature. Besides, while the area is mostly a vast wasteland, nomads and critters do live there and there are oasis and scattered rock formations(but not true mountains/ranges) here and there. Dragons living there would likely burrow, which blue and copper dragons are wont to do anyways, let alone any western species of dragon.
One point I brought up is that there might even be species of the chromatic dragons in the west that differ from those of other locations, if only in appearance to s slight degree(as similar species of lizards can look very different, but are pretty much the same critter). maybe one has a rill or horns that differ from the normal, or perhaps their scales are different. A silver dragon of the west might have large glittering scales rather than very fine ones that make it look like quicksilver. that sort of thing.
I think it is more important to develop what dragons are in the west(where they are, what the look like, how they are viewed by the various nations, etc.), rather than exactingly define creation mythos. Let the myths stay undefined, as it is very likely that every nation with dragons in their cultural history will have different myths anyways, let the alone the dragons themselves(and it is not like they are talking to anybody about it, let alone even advertising where they live- dragons are secretive that way).
Creation myths don't impact game play unless they are tied into a(usually) megalithic adventure. Where the dragons are, how they look, what powers they have, how they interact with the people of the lands, etc. are(in my opinion) more important to every day game play. If a group of pc's are adventuring in the Empire of Lynn, and a dragon is an antagonist, they are not likely to seek out information regarding the creation myths of dragons, but information on what makes them "tick". Working out mythology is fun and all, but an ecology article would be more useful I think. Plus, it goes directly to helping develop the lands “Beyond the Flanaess", not cosmology. Local legends from the perspective of the common folk are, to me, more useful and intersting than any cosmology will ever be.
You have some good ideas on the lands though. The Scarlet Brotherhood allied with black dragons is good and can serve as you describe(and in the Vast Swamp too). Some Greyhawk specific ecology articles featuring dragons of the Flanaess(and how they interact with the various peoples of the Flanaess where they have a presence) would be great.
I look forward to seeing an article from you, as I get a good impression from what you write in your posts(and I bet the editing will be a breeze! ). From what I recall, the first article in the “Beyond the Flanaess” series will go into Oerth Journal #25. Of course, any other types of articles dealing with dragons, but not necessarily dragons of the west, can go in any issue. We are privileged to get the submissions that we do. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Pretty much here's the contact I have had with Rick....
I thought about introducing the idea of Dragon Kingdoms in the Flanaess within my own campaign, then decided to offer the idea to Oerth Journal as a single article (before the idea of going "Beyond the Flanaess" came around. The article idea was strictly intended for the Flanaess.
Rick sounded intrested in the idea so I began writing. The majority of the post I placed wasn't intended to be a mythology sort of article, it was only an introduction to the actual article, I posted it in order to get a response of whether he would like to go Flanaess or Empire of Lynn, or both. It wasn't a completed or edited version, just an introduction.
What wasn't posted but was mentioned was the meat and bones of the article. If the article idea remains for the Flanaess there will have to be one article for each dragon color as well as an introduction. Each dragon kingdom is geographically broken up and discusses how they interact with one another, the humanoid-like races, their kingdoms, mention of many specific dragons (of the older ages), and a history of each kingdom which doesn't have a myth approach to it, but rather a factual approach.
Since Rick was the one suggesting changing to the Empire of Lynn I was trying to respond to the idea in order to solicite a response back (haven't got one yet).
I think that we should reserve the Empire of Lynn for an Asian flavor going into similar details as I am working on for the Flanaess, less myth, more DMing material to hamper PCs with in regards to actual adventuring.
Cebrion...do you have any offers of additional content to include in the Dragon Kingdom of the Flanaess, as of right now the ideas are limited coming only from my head, which sometimes get sucked out by a mind flayer anyway (hate it when I wake up with an illithid standing next to my bed, they could at least knock before coming into my chambers, how rude).
Anyway, what do you (Cebrion and Rick, as well as others) think?
I have had a VERY DIFFICULT TIME COMMUNICATING WITH RICK IN GETTING EMAILS ANSWERED and when he finally got back to me he suggested that I might want to consider adding to the Empire of Lynn instead.
I may have given the wrong impression in my very lengthy post. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
I got the impression this would be a few articles or even a series on each of the dragons, perhaps leading into more articles about dragons "Beyond the Flanaess", which I think would be very cool.
Maybe I just got too excited, as that is a rather large project I am describing there. When I post a lengthy reply to anything it is only because the topic has piqued my interest in some way. As to doing something for the Flanaess or the Empire of Lynn, that is entirely up to you. It is always best to write about what *you* have a passion for.
I may be wrong, but I think Rick might have brought up the Empire of Lynn as a possible topic for you because it is assumed that dragons will feature heavily in the culture and legends of that land, and it is one of the unassigned areas in the "Beyond the Flanaess" project. While an article on the dragons of the Empire of Lynn need not really flesh out the Empire of Lynn too much, parts of the article could serve to build a base for future writings about the land and its culture. Perhaps that is where Rick was going with his suggestions. That is my best guess anyways. Irregardless, we'll be happy with whatever type of article you choose to submit. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I'll continue with the Dragon Kingdoms of the Flanaess for three reasons.
1. I think I'm going to want to use it in my world.
2. I've already started, I have about 13 pages of text so far but just for
the black dragon kingdom alone I'm looking at 25-35 pages I fugure.
3. I'm more familiar with the idea and considering it's scope, I most likely
can only handle one major project at once.
You are correct in assuming that the article idea blew up into several
articles, all of which are expected to be the size indicated above. If the
first article is generally well received I can start a second one when the
time comes. I though about doing all of the evil dragons first primarly because it makes for better adventuring, though there is no particular order necessary.
Rick was looking to have things by the end of the month, I doubt I'll be able to complete it in time, but one never knows.
I'm still looking for some help with maps however, can someone give me a hand here. I have CC3 but my skills are not that great. I am assuming we can't use an official Greyhawk maps (such as the one from The Scarlet Brotherhood accessory). Can I get a response on this?
For the black dragon kingdom I need maps of Hepmonaland and the Amedio Jungle which can be edited to show the various territories of the dragons. The regular Greyhawk maps cut these portions off so they are of little use. I have maps downloaded from others but since it isn't my work I can't include it.
Thanks for showing an interest in the article, I hope a few people will be pleased, if not, I can always use it for my own campaign. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
That is the right attitude. Write for yourself. Share with others. Some may like it because it works for them, some may not, but that is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, so long as you like it and find it useful. OJ #23 is coming together soon, and I expect that is why Rick is asking for the article by the end of the month. I'll have to check into that...
As to maps, you can provide simple pencil sketches and we'll take care of the mapping if you'd like. Or you can e-mail us a scan of a Greyhawk map section with changes you have made to it and we'll recreate it in an original, non-copyrighted form(as you are right that we can't use WotC created/owned imagery in the Oerth Journal). Making maps can be pain in the butt, but we really do enjoy working on them. We are getting better at it as time goes on. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I decided that since this article idea was simply growing into a D&D monster unto itself so I would break it down a bit further. The first installment includes an introduction to the whole concept (the cosmology we discussed from my previous post), followed by the black dragons of Hepmonaland (or part I of the black dragon kingdom.
I think it might be possible to have that prepared by the end of the month, providing all goes well. Afterwards, if additional articles were of interest to Greyhawkers I could continue with the black dragon kingdom, say moving northward to Scarlet Brotherhood. Alternatively, one could find out what the readers would like so far as which kingdom and specific areas of the Flanaess, such as this forest, or that mountain range.
Either way I'm enjoying myself. By taking this breakdown step each article becomes more managable and there is no limit to the amount of information it could contain. Article length won't be a problem, I have yet to include random encounter tables or block stats. It will definetely be a lot of crunch for DM's to employ.
Thanks for the map response. I will most likely use the map from Scarlet Brotherhood, adding a few details of my own, then we could cut it down to size to show the applicable areas. It will include borders, primary dragon lairs, and other places of interest which are yet to be developed. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
Actually the reason I was suggesting Lynn is so that you'd have a lot of time to work on the project. I wanted a rough/ overview by the end of the month just so I got an idea where you wanted to go with the article. I would never ask for a finished work by the end of the month on a project of such scale. It just wouldn't be doable.
The reason I am suggesting Lynn mostly is b/c that Empire has all the climates necessary for every breed of dragon to be there. Or is surrounded by them. =)
So this area made for a nice quick and dirty overview of the larger project you had in mind. A great starting point to epic (in scale) development.
After delving into the project a ways I realized the potential scope of its size. In order to keep things straight I recognized that fact that I had to break the project down into smaller articles, though still by no means short articles.
This allows me to go into depth in a manner which I feel other DMs would find the material of use within their campaign. Currently, the black dragon kingdom is divided into several lesser regions, three of which are in Hepmonaland. The first article I can send you will cover one of the three areas.
I would suggest taking a look at the work and then evaluate its use for the Oerth Journal. At that point decide if the concept is something that we should continue with for the Flanaess or if the type of work I provide is something we could apply, alter, or otherwise fit into Lynn.
As mentioned, the first article goes into the origin of the kingdoms and then into the 1st of the 3 within Hepmonaland (in considerable detail). I vernture that the article will range between 18-25 pages of text.
I will send you what I have completed by the end of the month, if nothing else simply for you to get a clearer idea of my direction.
My thought is that I could provide more articles this way (which of coarse are all tied together) and it would also give DM's more time to incorporate it into their worlds.
I can include a brief overview of each of the ten dragon colors kingdoms within the article and treat that section more as fluff without the crunch within this article. I don't think that would be difficult to provide and it would give you and DMs a greater understanding of the project as well as what to extpect or what kind of feedback to provide.
Here's hoping to hear from you soon. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
What end result are we shooting for here? Something like the LGG nation entries that'll be published in one issue or something more like the Gazetteer of the Flanaess article on Almor in OJ 22 that'll be spread out?
What end result are we shooting for here? Something like the LGG nation entries that'll be published in one issue or something more like the Gazetteer of the Flanaess article on Almor in OJ 22 that'll be spread out?
I don't know about the other areas but tiggertom and I worked on some ideas about the Celestial Imperium. He disappeared can't get in touch with him but I forged ahead off and on.
Created a Ivid the Undying outline and its almost complete. Need a map maker and heraldry help to fulfill the vision.
Btw; completed the Darak Urtag, Gulf of Ghayah states and the island states (See Above). I am not a computer genius or an artist.
Don't know if I should submit them to OJ or CF - opinions?
Several posters have been interested and I have sent them "seek peeks" in return for some feedback. It is always good to have another set of eyes on the articles.
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). From what I recall, the first article in the “Beyond the Flanaess” series will go into Oerth Journal #25. Of course, any other types of articles dealing with dragons, but not necessarily dragons of the west, can go in any issue. We are privileged to get the submissions that we do.