Canonfire!

Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:18 pm The Ancient Flanaess - Little Help?

Evening all,

Tonight I pulled together all of the references I could find to ancient realms in the Flaness, human and demi-human. I got over two dozen hits but with few exceptions, I was not pulling names. Rather, I'd get things like "the dwarven kingdom in the Glorioles Mts" or descriptives, which are kinda names and kinda not, for example, "the long resident Flan tribes of . . ." etc. From these sorts of general or vague descriptions, I can cobble together a name that hits around the general idea but that's not the same as a full fledged canon name.

I've got the usual commonly named suspects via-a-vis the south central and eastern Flan - Sulm (and absorbed states), Itar, Ahlissa. Of course, Vecna's Occluded Empire, the Isles of Woe (if that is even a name). But it gets pretty thin thereafter.

Anybody have any names of old or ancient kingdoms (human or demi-human) in the Flanaess that come from canon? If this turns into an article, all helpers will be duely noted and thanked! Smile

Thanks in advance.
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GVD

Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:32 pm

Did you check out the introduction to Return to White Plume Mountain? They mention a kingdom named Tostenhca. It is dated back to "some two thousand years ago" and that the wizard Keraptis was the ruler. In the original White Plume Mountain they talk about Keraptis "dating him at 1300 years ago), but don't mention the kingdom of Tostenhca.
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Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:34 pm

http://www.superunicorn.com/erik/2005/02/ancient-cultures-of-eastern-oerik.html GVD, I'm sure you might remember this list?

Also recently in one of the greychats we discussed Veralos the city in the Riftcanyon from the LGJ's. Check. And within that article GLH dropped a placename called Nuria. I asked where Nuria was, he said to the north of Veralos. I said around Rookroost? He said no, farther north. I guess it was in/around the present day Wastes.

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:45 pm Re: The Ancient Flanaess - Little Help?

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:31 am

This is a map I made a while back of the Aerdi lands circa -300 CY.

The Lathu are mentioned on the Living Greyhawk Nyrondy website and also in a recent Oerth Journal article on Almor. They were Flan who lived in stone cities.

This map puts the Necromancers of Trask along the Trask River, but the consensus seems to be that their civilization extended along the upper Flanmi as well. The Flan in these regions worshipped demon lords (Orcus, Demogorgon) and evil dragons (Tiamat?).

The "Medegian Bladelands" are a very contentious part of canon. Technically they should be lumped in with the "Aerdi principalities."

The name Onnwi for the Suel who settled what is now Onnwal is from Living Greyhawk.

There's also the following map, evidently made by Gary Holian and Erik Mona, though Erik has since disavowed the notion that Vecna's empire ever extended into Urnst.

I also decided personally to include the City State of Erlacor mentioned in "The Winged Folk" in Dragon #51 as part of the Flanaess 2000 years ago, somewhere near the Lortmils.

Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:33 am

rasgon,

are these fine maps available as downloads somewhere? Smile

Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:22 am

Right click > Save as.

Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:26 pm

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:35 pm

Excellent help! Thank you! Please keep it coming if you think of anything! Happy

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GVD

Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:36 pm

It's disputed where exactly the Fabled City of Dar-Kesh Anam (Places of Mystery - LGJ 01) existed, "... placing it either in the lowlands of ancient Itar or in a vast mountain valley west of Mur."

Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:43 pm

GVD:
Do you need the name of the Dwarven Realm within the Glorioles? WOTC passed the name out once and I have it here somewhere, I can dig it out if you like?
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Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:24 am

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:17 pm

I wrote an article on the Isles of Woe. I got the name of its capital from Dragon #294.

Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:49 pm

There are allusions that Acererak ruled a kingdom in the Tilvanot peninsula, but IIRC there weren't any names for it, right?

There are the old tribal/language names (Ferral/Ferrond, etc.), which may prove useful as inspiration if nothing else.

The place names from the various artifacts/relics from the 1e DMG include many possible other locations, though they're not necessarily pure GH canon in some cases, or even necessarily nation/tribe/x names (Tdon, Pesh, etc.), along with uncertain names from modules (we don't know from canon that Tsojcanth isn't a place vs. a person, for example).
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Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/

Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:14 am

The ancient dwarven kingdoms are described extensively in: The Runes of the Dwur (RD) timelines:
http://hem.passagen.se/warlich/Greyhawk/World/the_world__greyhawk.html ->Dwarves Runes and Migrations
and here:
http://billg350.tripod.com/races_of_greyhawk.htm

There's some great fan made material on the Dwur in GH tying the history from the Axe of Dwarvish Lords into the history of the Flanaess. Some of it is in french though. I found "Personnages Dwur" and "Les clans de Dwur" (detailed compilation and extrapolation on Dwur history) on my HD. Both are by Laurent Debelle and Stéphane Tanguay (Les Fauconniers = the Falconers, read Greyhawkers). I even found a half complete attempted translation into english of Les Clans Dwur.

French versions available here: http://perso.netultra.net/ggf/biblio.htm

Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:20 am

Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:02 am

I'm have no idea how to create a link so here is the information on the Dwarven Kingdom of the Glorioles. I found it on the WOTC site before Gleemax came around. Hope it is of use to someone.

If anyone cares to send me a pm explaining how to create links from canonfire to elsewhere on the Internet I would very much appreciate it.

Glorvardum

By Creighton Broadhurst, Paul Looby, Stuart Kerrigan

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgmp/20041123a
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Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods

Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:21 am

Thanks Eileen. (and pm sent)

Here's a link to the article on the WotC site: Glorvardum article on WotC
and a link to an expanded pdf on the Sunndi LG site: Glorvadum pdf

Apparently Glorvardum is also mentioned in OJ #17 (in the Kalstrand article)

Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:20 pm

Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:57 am

Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:00 am

I'd be interested for sure. May be you can make a new htread and post it there?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:46 pm

That might be possible. I don't know for sure though. It's pretty big, like 50+ pages. I had thought about making it available in a torrent or through rapidshare...depends upon response I guess.

Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:55 pm

Thanks for the maps Rasgon, they really help put the ancient civilizations into context. Vecna, Ahlissa, and the ancient Flan are always being hinted about and alluded to, but its hard to conceptualize how they are related. These go a long way to sorting everything out in a way a written timeline can't (maybe I'm just a visual thinker).
I'd love to see more historical maps like this.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:13 pm

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:55 am

Is Krovis a Hero or Quasi Diety?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:03 am Quasi Deity