Now this is strange: It is arranged and styled exactly like Exemplars of Evil, yet while I dismissed that with a "Blegh!", I really liked Elder Evils despite having the same lackluster presentation.
Maybe I'm just a sucker for armageddon. I loved books like Day of the Triffids and The War in the Air which are centered around the end of civilisation, and EE brings that to D&D. Lovely mechanics for doomsday events and some nice monstrosities to cause them.
As for GH stuff, there is a chapter dedicated to Kyuss, not it has no connection to the Age of Worms campaign beyond the big bad.
I have flipped through the book a couple of times. I didn't pick up either Exemplars of Evil or Elder Evils because I was severly disappointed in the lack of Greyhawk content. When they first announced the books a few months before they came out I was pretty excited about it. I was hoping that they would take a bunch of classic villains from Greyhawk, Realms, and Ebberon and give them a huge spread. My impression is they created all new stuff. So at this point I passed. They might be good villains, but for me, I wanted classic stuff. It will be 10-15 years before these guys catch on enough to become classic.
The other thing that bothered me was when WOTC put out their introduction to the books, they mention all of these Greyhawk villains as good vilains. Then they passed the buck and said but we left those behind to give you Great villains. I thought to myself, if you felt this way, why not take the opportunity to turn your good villains into Great villains. The whole thing kinda deflated my interested in the books.
Was there anything in the Elder Evils about Kyuss that would make me buy it, as opposed to using the Age of Worms? _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
The two volumes are intended to complement each other, or at least that's what WotC has been saying.
You're right about the thinly veiled insult to Greyhawk, Eileen. I caught that and didn't care for it either.
The information on Kyuss could be somewhat useful, but I don't think it justifies buying the book. There's more than enough material already within the AoW adventures and supporting articles. In hindsight I wonder if the Kyuss stuff in Elder Evils was indicative of the impending split between WotC and Paizo, since they didn't have any of the Paizo guys write it or even contribute. It's one of those things that makes you go hmmmmm...
Was there anything in the Elder Evils about Kyuss that would make me buy it, as opposed to using the Age of Worms?
Not if you are already the proud owner of AoW.
And while Exemplars and Elder do compliment each other, the conection is only in one chapter. The Kyuss chapter to be precise. Guess the writers knew which Elder was worth doing twice.
Disappointment seems to be the theme for WotC releases of late, Elder Evil seemed to me as a mere extention of Exemplers of Evil, "....and here are a few more adventures to run against some legendary bad guys..."
Is it me or does the product line seem too contrived and "cheap" of late? I was serverely disappointed with the Dungeon Survival Guide... is WotC trying to beat a broken drum, yes it was nice to stroll down memory lane, but it was not at all what I had the impression it was going to be. Exemplars of Evil is a "fair" product, to assist in creating a villian, but that's it. Eldar Evils seems not only as the same "kind" of scenario material, it could have just been included to Exemplars.... "....high level venture against the big baddies...."
If this is any example of what WotC/Hasbro intend for 4th Ed.... shudder.... what kind of damage could this do to the game?
I've recently been looking at running the HarnMaster system, (PC creation, combat system, etc...) and just adapting it into Greyhawk, making Greyhawk more medieval and grittier.... I even went and bought a compilation of 5 cds containing medieval music to help set the mood, just as good as other scores made available from Midnight Sydicate or the like, but less fantasy blended.
To draw back to the topic, Elder Evils is a filler, and could compliment a high level game, but so do a hundred other or so books out there.
Three out of Five, presentation was decent...for a last kick at the can for 3.5
I suspect you've hit on one of the real reasons behind 4e, BusterBudd. I have nothing against Elder Evils or Exemplars of evil - both are fine books. It's just that they aren't good enough to distinguish them from many other books out there. For the last year or two WotC has had to compete with numerous smaller publishers with just as much (if not more) talent, and with no limits as to the nature of their content. It's hard under such circumstances to come up with consistent quality of sufficient quantity to stay on top. If not for 4e WotC's only choice would be to either concentrate on rehashing old material or start producing smaller publications (such as adventures) in very large quantities. Neither of these is very cost effective.
From a business standpoint, the announcement of 4e marks what is sometimes referred to as a "consolidation stage" in which an overgrown marketplace tends to reduce the number of producers. The weaker producers will fall out of the market, the stronger ones will grow stronger still by absorbing some smaller producers, and eventually the survivors will begin to differentiate themselves by moving in different directions. The lessening quality of WotC's recent offerings merely marks the beginning of this process. You should take this as a good sign, because the beginning of a consolidation stage is usually marked by an increase in quality products. Don't be surprised if some of the big publishers start putting out some really good work in 1-3 years.
So, you're saying that the sub-par products from the WotC during the last year is nothing to worry about since they are meant to be sub-par? If we wait a while and buy the new core books we will get better content once again? I have no interest in paying for the same material all over again in order to be getting the good stuff they could be providing me right now. if the profitability of D&D is too low for the Hasbro company then they should sell it instead of diluting the brand with yet another edition. _________________ Never say blip-blip to a kuo-tua
No, I'm not saying that they were intentionally sub-par. I'm only suggesting that these things tend to go in cycles. The changes in the industry tend to spark change, which in turn tends to spark innovation. This is only a general statement regarding how industries usually tend to develop. I don't mean to say anything about WotC specifically.
I tend to agree that Hasbro should let D&D go, but that's an entirely self-interested opinion of mine. From a business perspective (and that is my specialty, after all) if Hasbro keeps WotC and manages to see them through the consolidation phase successfully, they'll eventually come out on top of the heap. I only wish they'd let the hobby go because I would rather see it stay in the hands of hobbyists. From a business perspective, though, that would ultimately be disastrous because the pen and paper roleplaying industry would eventually go the way of the ships-in-bottles industry.
I thought Elder Evils was a pretty good book, all in all. I love high level stuff and I thought this was a great way to give epic rules one last hurrah. Its well written and provides excellent outlines for introducing an apocalypse to the campaign world (although I really dislike the Delve format). Most of the chapters are unique and interesting enough, although the Kyuss chapter really was redundant (AoW did it better so what was the point?) I found the overall presentation decent and there is some awesome artwork. The cover alone rivals Wayne Reynolds' fantastic vision of Kyuss from the cover of Dungeon #135.
My personal favorites were Atropus, Pandorym and Ragnorra. The Hulks of Zoretha was also pretty cool, but I thought Zargon was a bit of a letdown - could have been done better. Other than that, I thought it was a great read and a must have for anyone who likes high level play.
I think the reason I liked it when apparently most other people didn't, is that unlike the others, I don't have their experence in DMing, and so the bare bones of a campaign presented in each chapter are actually quite useful for me. At least untill I'm good enough to make my own stuff from scratch.
I partically like the chapters on Leviathan and Sertrous, and I think those can be unleashed in a Greyhawk campaign without too much difficulty. Also the Leviathan chapter has given me a desire to read Moby ****.
I leafed through this book today at my FLGS. The sheer mass of the Age of Worms series in Dungeon so overwelms this one chapter, that if you've got the former, there really is no reason to pick up Elder Evils for our wormy friend. The locations in the book are not compatible with the series either - in the book, Kyuss' monolith stands alone on the distant and desolate "Island of Worms". It did strike me that the Pandorym chapter could be used as a Tharizdun stand-in, though, crystal prison and all.
But hey, its a how-to-destroy-your-campaign-world manual. ;-) Those of you who are desparately searching for a way to do that in preparation for rebooting your game into 4E might found it very useful. Although, you really can't destroy your world more then once... err... how many chapters were there?
In the end, I did not purchase it.
Denis, aka "Maldin"
Maldin's Greyhawk (which doesn't need destroying) http://melkot.com
Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... magic, mysteries, maps, mechanics, and more!
I'm chalking these last few "general" books out by WotC as a sad excuse of keeping the cash flow going for themsleves (Elder Evils, Exemplars of Evil, Dungeon Survival Guide... to name a few).
The amont of time and resources delegated to the release of this "4th Ed D&D", logicly, has taken away from any 3.5 projects remaining and time to be spent with them to make them "wow". It's only sound business practice, unfortunately, for an "apparent" cash guided game (what can be put out there and sold based off of the "name" of the game), so that they wouldn't bother with the same level of quality or concern.
Elder Evil appeared, to me, as a good sized collection of fair to half decent material for some "similar" venue for high level material, if not as designed to actually be...maybe... "Exemplar Elder Evil", but then cut in two to increase sales, keep 3.5 dangling...just till 4th Ed material could hit the market, with any similarities to Paizo material being smudged. I wouldn't be surprised if actual Greyhawk baddies were cut out on purpose....
I don't remember the period between 2nd and 3rd being so contrived? so.... "here's what we have left for 2nd...have at it". I noted 3rd had appeared to incorporate allot of the expansion material release in the later end of 2nd, but thats another issue.
Speculative, yes... my imagination gets the better of me sometimes.
Great seeing you in the forum again Maldin!
Cheers
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Disappointment seems to be the theme for WotC releases of late, Elder Evil seemed to me as a mere extention of Exemplers of Evil, "....and here are a few more adventures to run against some legendary bad guys..." 
I've recently been looking at running the HarnMaster system, (PC creation, combat system, etc...) and just adapting it into Greyhawk, making Greyhawk more medieval and grittier.... I even went and bought a compilation of 5 cds containing medieval music to help set the mood, just as good as other scores made available from Midnight Sydicate or the like, but less fantasy blended. 
aka BusterBudd
