Well, I have been waiting to get my fingers to typing on this topic. From October of last year until this May, there was a little discussion on the forums here about who was trying the new Pathfinder game, and who was using for their Greyhawk games at home.
Now that the final version of the Pathfinder RPG has been released, I am interested in knowing what the reaction to it is, and who's liking (or disliking it).
Anna and I have bought it (she nabbed it the day it come out) and are really enjoying the content. So much so, in fact, that I am giving a little thought to really delving into the lore, and learning about Golarion. Taldor looks like a lot of fun, and I am really thriled with the Mwangi, Osirian, Tian, Ulfi and Vudrani cultures. (cultures based loosely on African, Egytian, Oriental, viking and Indian regions respectively.) But there is a wealth of original material as well .... and therein lies my delimma. There is so much stuff that is original and great, that I don't know if I can split all my reading time between two settings/worlds!! (If that's a "problem", I must have it pretty good.)
Anyway ... let's hear what you think about Pathfinder, how it's 3.5 OGL compatible, and whether or not you like it for use with Greyhawk and how well it fits as a system for our beloved setting.
I voted that PFRPG is useful primarily in that it's a continuation of 3.5e. However, I think I should explain that does not mean I think it's ideal for Greyhawk.
Personally I think 1e AD&D is the best system for Greyhawk, but only because the "feel" of those rules seems a good fit for the setting. It's an emotional response, I admit, and likely stems in part from the fact that it's the system I grew up with. But in spite of this 1e/2e are too unwieldy for me these days. I simply don't have the energy to thumb through literally hundreds of publications looking for rules and other details of play. 1e and 2e are disorganized, eclectic, and sometimes just downright chaotic. I need something simpler and more self-contained.
Thus I was glad when 3e/3.5e came because 1e/2e were in desperate need of reorganization. There were few real standards for those systems, resulting in a hodge-podge of rules and systems that was becoming rather cumbersome. Worse, it was virtually impossible for new players to learn quickly. 3e/3.5e introduced a new level of standardization that cleared up much of the confusion, providing baselines for the conversion of my favorite elements from earlier systems.
I remain a strong proponent of 3.5e due to the flexibility and ease of use provided by the rules. That is not to say that 3.5e doesn't have its problems - and there are several. Rather than go into them all here, I'll simply say that, for the most part, it boils down to PCs gaining too much power too quickly - it's too easy to be a munchkin with 3.5e. Of course, all of these problems are relatively easy to fix, and that's why I'm sticking with the system.
I was also glad when Paizo decided to stick with the d20 system for their new rules set. Everything I'd heard about 4e up to that point was a complete turnoff, and WotC's behavior in the matter was even moreso. So I waited, read the beta versions, looked over the website and forums a few times, and talked the new system over with friends - just like everyone else.
But what I've seen doesn't inspire me. My feeling is that 3.5e needed only a (relatively) little tweaking to make it a virtually perfect system. In general a few minor design flaws needed adjustment, the math behind certain calculations needed modification, and a couple of elements just needed to be left out. What Paizo did was the exact opposite. Instead of fixing the "too much power too soon" problem, they boosted the power level significantly. It just doesn't gibe well with my perception of what GH should be.
Which is not to say that I'll begrudge anyone's enjoyment of Pathfinder Chronicles. In spite of its flaws it's still a pretty good game, and it works well enough overall. It just doesn't strike me as the right set for Greyhawk.
I voted that PFRPG is useful primarily in that it's a continuation of 3.5e. However, I think I should explain that does not mean I think it's ideal for Greyhawk.
Personally I think 1e AD&D is the best system for Greyhawk, but only because the "feel" of those rules seems a good fit for the setting.
this is how I voted and this is how I feel, which is not to say that I haven't used other editions as the basis for greyhawk games... I have run greyhawk in 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, and BECMI, and all worked out very well, but I think the flavor of the setting is best expressed in the 1e rule set.
I have picked up a few of the adventures from Pathfinder adventure paths that use the 3.5 SRD. I think these are great and have a lot that can be mined and used in a Greyhawk campaign. I also like that Pathfinder has provided a vehicle for more 3.5ish material to be published by 3rd party publishers who might have been reluctant, otherwise, to publish for a "dead" system.
As others have said, I think that 1e works best with Greyhawk, which is why I put certain limitations on the 3.5 races/classes and use the slow xp advancement option.
I think that Pathfinder's decision to boost the power of lower level characters was an effort to make all levels "more playable" (i.e. less frustrating at low levels, less boring at high levels). However, it may turn some people off who prefer their fantasy worlds to appear like medieval Europe (i.e. where the fantastic elements like magic are less visible). I haven't decided how well it will work IMC.
If someone likes D&D v3.5, then they'll probably like Pathfinder, since it's an open licensed v3.5 clone with variant rules. Likewise, if someone likes to game in GH using v3.5, they'll probably like doing it using Pathfinder.
However the "point" of Pathfinder is as a way forward for their Golarion setting and subscription adventure product lines, hence the name. It's the "made by superfans for superfans" RPG product line produced by game designers who respect many familiar tropes of Gygaxian Eurocentric fantasy and is as close to being the heir to GH as one is probably going to find in the future.
I'm glad to see your interest in Golarion, simply because if you're interested in it, you'll probably get Anna interested in it, and fan art for an in-print setting will increase her audience by a many fold number, and her work merits that.
While I can certainly appreciate all the work and effort that has gone into both 3rd Edition and Pathfinder: personally, I can't stand any of it. To me, its just "World of Warcraft" on paper and I guess I'm just too old-school for that.
I came up playing 1st and 2nd Edition D&D and while I'm one of the VERY few who actually likes 2nd better than 1st; I actually think Castles and Crusades is the way to Role-play Greyhawk and any other AD&D setting. It has the elements and 'feel' of the older editions while utilizng the single "always roll-high" mechanic and does away with all of the, in my opinion, 'stupidness' of 3rd edition such as Prestige Classes and Feats.
Just my two cents; and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone....its a free country and there'll always be different strokes for different folks. :)
With the amount of 3.X stuff I own and actually liking the system (Ok, my houseruled 3.X) I hate to see the game fade off. Pathfinder looks like a worthy successor and something I will use parts of. _________________ Agape,
Like others, I prefer Greyhawk in 1st and/or 2nd edition; that's what I began playing D&D with and that's what I run in my new campaign.
That said, I like the look and feel of Pathfinder and currently play in a game over at paizo.com. I own the PFRPG but am considering putting it on eBay this week. I have the pdf and that is all I really need to play.
I began playing D&D with the Basic and Expert (red and blue boxed sets, respectively) rules, and continued through all the updated versions until 3.5, which I am currently running a campaign in. I have yet to actually play in a Pathfinder campaign, but have read through the rules and will begin next month in my first Pathfinder experience.
My impression, from reading through the Pathfinder rules, is that it is the same as 3.5, but they added a few powers to each character class, changed the way Turning Undead works, and made a few other minor changes to the game system. I expect it to play just like 3.5. I'm fine with that.
I only DM the World of Greyhawk, but the Pathfinder campaign I'm scheduled to be a player character in shortly will be based in Golarion. I'd rather stick with GH, the world I know and love, for simplicity's sake - why fill my head with knowledge of another imaginary world - but will do my best for the sake of the group and campaign.
I posted that in September 2009, and have since been involved in a couple of pbp games over on Paizo, plus currently playing in a Pathfinder game on Rpol.net and I am running a Pathfinder email game. And having a pretty good time as a DM.
It's a fun system with a lot of options - some folks love that, some folks hate it; to each his/her own. I'm also playing in a 1E ToEE game on Rpol - very, VERY slow going but a good group of players.
As for Pathfinder and Greyhawk, I think they mesh fine - it just depends if you want to use the greatest gaming setting with Pathfinder rules. The setting is the same great setting, only the rules are different.
Oddly, I posted in another thread about "Who's Playing", I posted a response that seems also appropriate for this one ...
Well, I have to say that, thus far, I couldn't be more thrilled with the Pathfinder RPG ... it has turned out to be the perfect vehicle for me to get my Gaming group into (essentially) 3rd Edition. One of the fellas that plays is a huge White Wolf fan, and he played and DM'd in 2nd Edition prolifically, but hasn't done much in the past several years.
Now that he is comfortable with the fact that there's not all that much that is different (after having looked at the conversion guide published in 3.0) he is great with it, and since I play in GH, he has really taken to the setting as well, and the other players include both novices and experienced D&D gamers, and all are good with the Pathfinder (3.75) rules. _________________ Owner and Lead Admin: https://greyhawkonline.com<div>Editor-in-Chief of the Oerth Journal: https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal</div><div>Visit my professional art gallery: https://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com</div>
Hi i am from brasil and i am new to site and old to greyhawk , My personal experience is this : I am current running the final stages of the Age Of Worms with the pathfinder rules and it is a blast.
Welcome Julio! Glad to meet you here on Canonfire! Please feel free to join in the conversations and post your own original articles as well. We're glad you're here.
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(If that's a "problem", I must have it pretty good.)
- but will do my best for the sake of the group and campaign.
