Canonfire!

Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:31 pm Oliphant Hunt

http://greyhawkery.blogspot.com/2011/01/oliphant-hunt.html

From "Greyhawkery", I found a very good topic for the bright minds here at CF to discuss. Elephants in the Flanaess? Are there any canon examples? Anyone have thoughts on their use in war?

Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:25 am

Dungeon adventures by David Howery:

Issue #15 Volume III, Number 3 (January/February 1989)

ELEPHANTS' GRAVEYARD, THE*
AD&D GREYHAWK adventure, 5-8 characters of levels 5-7
Written by: David Howery
Artwork by: John Paul Leon
Jungle, tropical to sub-tropical
15 pages

Description: Characters chase an ancient legend and a fortune in precious ivory.

Issue #34 Volume VI, Number 4 (March/April 1992)
ROGUE
AD&D SideTrek adventure, 5-7 characters of levels 4-5
Written by: David Howery
Jungle, tropical
2 pages

Description: The Watangas need brave heroes to hunt down a rogue bull elephant called Olengata.

They are possibly also mentioned in his Dragon articles...

Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:47 pm

Excellent Thanael! I never knew about the Dungeon Magazine mods. I had remembered Howery's Hepmonaland-take but figured it would be easier to use SKR's Scarlet Brotherhood for reference first.

I know there is a 1e source somewhere out there but it probably got lost in the most recent editions, but what is the comparative value of ivory in D&D?

Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:03 pm

1e and 2e both list elephant ivory as being worth 4 gp per pound, with a typical tusk being worth 100-600 gp.

I don't recall seeing a value in 3e. I thought it might be in Draconomicon, since it has a chapter on creating treasure hoards that are more then just coins, but ivory isn't in the list of trade goods and valuable materials in that book.

Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:37 pm

Aren't there freakin' elephants in the Vale of the Mage? Let me check... Yes. There are indeed elephants in the Vale of the Mage. I really can't be having with that. Shocked

I'm with Mort's thinking on the source of ivory in the northlands. Why have elephants when you can have mastodon and mammoth?

Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:32 pm

I can see the Vale being like some lost world-hidden valley type place. Maybe Mastodons are there instead of run of the mill elephants. Remember, there is an overabundance of 'dire' critters all over in D&D settings and aren't Mastodons/Mammoths essentially Dire Elephants?

Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:37 pm

Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:42 pm

Darn right! Laughing

Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:33 pm

Never underestimate a halfling; the most dangerous race those furry feet folk have fooled the powerful and wise alike.

As for elephants; who knew that would be an exotic creature for the populace of the flanaess. However let us not make it near mythical as a figurine of wonderous power (elephant) does exist so some knowledge of them has penetrated the ivory towers of even the most reclusive mages.

Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:33 pm

Big Johann the frost giant and his mastodon mount, Smokey from GDQ 1-7. That's right, I said Smokey. Looks like there's mastodons in them thar Crystalmist Mountains!

Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:48 am

Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:29 pm

I just found in the City of GH boxed set, that Lord Henway's Menagerie has two elephants in its collection. No word on where they were acquired from but they are certainly a rare attraction for the central Flanaess if Henway bought them.

Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:38 am

If my memory serves me right isn't there a elephant on the cover of the 2nd Ed Adventure Valley of the Mage?

Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:52 am

Hrm! I thought smillan was kidding around but yeah yer right Rockhaven, there is! Good point. Vale of the Mage is one of those elusive GH books I never owned when it came out. It shows that no one can know everything on a subject. Time for me to do some reading.

I also need to ponder on Armitage's ivory price comment. Would that make ivory more or less valuable than gem resources? At a glance I'd say more. But if so, wouldn't PCs go ivory hunting instead? Food for thought.

Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:46 am

Mort, you know I don't kid about serious things like elephants. Smile

Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:00 pm

Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:33 pm

Mort, there's not much elephant content in Vale. Only the elephant on the cover ("I'm picturing an elephant and a drow. It'll be awesome!!!) and 2 elephants statted out and stationed with the guards at a guard-post.

Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:17 pm

Smillan: Wow. So the Mage of the Vale has imported two elephants to guard the entrance of his land. Exotic.

Mystic: As for alluding to Rasgon. You think I have some sort of rip...I mean chip on my shoulder? Naw. It's all good. Razz

Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:26 am

Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:06 pm

Mort, I wouldn't necessarily say "imported". Elephants aren't mentioned in the Plants and Animals section of the module, but the Vale is noted to have many different kinds of apes, bananas (Where there's apes...) and parrots. For a subtropical climate, it is mighty tropical. The stats correspond with the African Elephant from the 1e MM.

Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:19 pm

Just for you, Mort. Wink

In the news today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41087985/ns/us_news-life

Poor trainer crushed to death! Shocked

_________________
Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:25 pm

How about this?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20110117/tc_pcworld/scientiststoclonewoollymammothinfiveyears_1

Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:34 am Elephant locations and the cost of Ivory

Well, isn't *this* an interesting thread! And just when I am writing two levels for a campaign that takes a romp into Hepmonaland in my home campaign!!

At least one obvious source for elephants is Hepmonaland, and in the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement, it has them listed on the Encounter Tables as inhabiting the areas of the Zolteo and Otobo jungles, the Adaro Forest and the Kabreevo Plains. There are certainly others in non-canon areas of Oerik that would equate to Indian elaphants.

Also, an interesting note, since Armitage and Mortellan mentioned the cost of Ivory ... in 3e resources, I could only find (in the Draconomicon) that items made of ivory fall into the treasure catagory of "Art" and can be just about anything. Their values can range from 1GP to 120,000 GP. The only solid example there is a carved harp with ivory and zircon inlays that averages about 700GP in value.

The elephants in Lord Henway's Menagerie are a great find, in my book, Mort. As Crag pointed out, they shouldn't be near-mythical, and certainlycitizens of, and vistiors to Greyhawk have undoubtedly seen them. No more rare than say, rhinos; and there's been magical rhino-hide armour around for awhile.
Another interesting point is that a druid can't turn into anything that he's never seen.

Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:28 pm

Mammoths! Someone got a hold of a clone spell, cool.

What's neat about that story is it reminds me of a copy of Heavy Metal magazine I bought back @1994 that had an Italian comic in it which featured cloned mammoths. What a novel idea from almost 2 decades ago. I like when life imitates fiction. We used to think we were getting Buck Rogers for a future but now its looking to be more Neuromancer.

Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:08 pm

I can add two (3) more elephantine GH references:

The 3E Dungeon adventure, "Quadripartite," IIRC, features frost giants in the Corrusks riding a sleigh pulled by mammoths or mastodons.

Slavers features a halfling Slave Lord agent named Gormadoc, who first appeared in the 1E Rogue's Gallery. His life-long dream, mentioned in both sources, is to own an elephant. The Slave Lords provide him w/ a marble elephant crafted in Hepmonaland.

Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:33 pm

Has someone mentioned the elephant sculptures in the Lost City of the Elders?

Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:22 pm

Hmm this brings back memories, yes it's another plane and this means Eli Tomorast has knowledge of elephants. Not too surprising. I would expect any Seeker has seen exotic wildlife along his journies to find magic.

I recall in MY version of the Lost City (which PCs actually accessed with the Dagger Obelisk), it was a fantastical planar mash-up of Arabia and India with a healthy dash of planescape. There was one NPC I had them encounter who actually rode an elephant in a howdah. They hunted for the paragon of Displacer Beasts. Good times.