Thanks for posting that Allan. It's nice to be able to gain the insight of some of D&D's original gangsters.
SirXaris
Edit:
I've had some time to mull Rob's comments over now and I'd like to add my thoughts. Rob claimed that the original idea behind D&D was for every DM to exercise their own creative juices and create their own world and adventures. He claimed that corporate desire to increase profits drove the change from support products that encouraged creativity to unifying products that took most of the creative work out of the individual DM's hands. (paraphrased)
I agree with the first part as a strong positive aspect of the role-playing hobby, D&D in particular, and I see where his cynicism is coming from with respect to the corporation spamming printed mediocre adventures and expansion hardbacks to consumers, especially during 3.x Ed. However, I don't agree that having a common foundation (a core world with a few shared adventures, for example) is a bad thing for the game and those involved.
Specifically, I find great enjoyment in creating small pieces of a larger world (Greyhawk) in my own image. Greyhawk is such a large place that I can choose any part of it and add something that no one else has included yet. At the same time I can share it with a group of like-minded friends who can appreciate parts of what I have to offer and use the rest to simply spark their own imagination. I gain by these friends sharing my interest in that core world. If no else but me and my adventuring group knew anything about my world, it would be far less satisfying to create. Imagine carving a masterpiece out of marble, but discovering that only a handful of people would ever have the opportunity to view it.
As I said, I agree that WotC/Hasbro went way too far spamming so many prestige class expansion hardback during 3.x edition and even all the extra books on how to play 2nd edition classes better. However, though Rob K. alluded to it, he never came right out and admitted it: those classic AD&D modules like Against the Giants, the Drow series, the Slavers series, ToEE, and even Basic and Expert modules like Keep on the Borderlands and the Isle of Dread - all of them written by EGG! - would never have been made available to us if TSR hadn't changed course in the very manner lamented by Rob.
In conclusion, I must say that I am glad that TSR encouraged Gary Gygax to share his personal world and some of his adventure-writing style with us and therefore disagere with Rob on this point. I can agree, however, that they have gone way too far for my tastes in the last two editions (I assume they'll do it again in 4e) and I wish they would focus more on encouraging individual creativity in their consumers.
SirXaris
Last edited by SirXaris on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
I don't think people need a company to "encourage" them to be creative. They either want to be creative or they don't. Why buy a novel when you can just write your own? Sometimes, you want to experience the creativity of others.
I don't think Rob Kuntz was really saying "no one should buy modules," though. He's just saying, "Psst! You don't really need them." Which is true.
I do agree with some of what he said, but some of what he complains about was inevitable. Someone was going to mass produce the product and make money with modules -- why not the creators?
Some things were lost by this turn of events and some things were gained. We need to take what we -- individually -- think of as the best, and leave the rest.
The DM has always been in charge of the game and each DM needs to stretch their imaginations to create a good game. That's always been the case and will always remain so.
I like to use modules in the way Rasgon mentions -- to stimulate my own ideas. For me, none of them are set in stone. Use the parts of them you like, discard the rest.
If it was that easy, everyone would be a writer. As it is, buying a book is much easier than writing one.
Now, as for RJK's statement in the interview that originally they couldn't grasp why anyone would want prewritten adventures, I have a few thoughts. First, back to the "it's easier to buy it" thing I mentioned about books. Another thing is, when I was young and new to the game, it was helpful to look at how "the pros" did it, so I could have some kind of framework to start from. So, I think it allowed people relatively new to the game and running it to play through those modules and eventually say "Hell, I could make a dungeon at least as good as that."
Another reason is time. It takes time to write up an adventure. I don't even know how many letters I've read in Dungeon magazine praising them for being such a great time saver. As us gamers aged into the stage of life where we are expected to work to earn the things we want and need, and eventually start a family, gaming might become a thing we get to do for a few hours once every month. So spending a couple evenings drawing up maps, and stocking them with critters for the heroes to defeat, becomes impossible.
I know fr me, a given module will have a varying level of usefulness. In the last campaign I ran, the first adventure was pretty much straight out of Dungeon. The second on was from Dungeon also, but with this one, all I did was rip off a map. The rest was me adding a second level, and a total rewrite and restocking.
I think I'm straying from my point, so I'll wrap it up.
rasgon wrote:
I don't think Rob Kuntz was really saying "no one should buy modules," though. He's just saying, "Psst! You don't really need them." Which is true.
I completely agree. Just like I don't NEED ice cream, I enjoy it. And will be getting some as soon as I post this.
I don't think people need a company to "encourage" them to be creative. They either want to be creative or they don't. Why buy a novel when you can just write your own? Sometimes, you want to experience the creativity of others...
-Agreed.
I usually buy a module with the idea of incorporating it into my campaign, but they're generally interesting to read. Of course, I also like reading rules.
I might not be representative...
BlueWitch wrote:
...Another reason is time. It takes time to write up an adventure. I don't even know how many letters I've read in Dungeon magazine praising them for being such a great time saver. As us gamers aged into the stage of life where we are expected to work to earn the things we want and need, and eventually start a family, gaming might become a thing we get to do for a few hours once every month. So spending a couple evenings drawing up maps, and stocking them with critters for the heroes to defeat, becomes impossible...
-You mean, you don't make your living as a professional DM?
What a mediocrity you be!
That was actually my first thought when I read RK's interview.
I agree with Blue witch I don't need ice cream but would like some please.
Figures she didn't get me any ice cream.
Rob, made his points well. I have modules not one of which was run as written. I like to create my own adventures and that's how I was introduced to the game. Like MS has stated it was inevitable how else would they have expanded? Pay us for your imagination, we gave it to you. I think not!
Any book, can help spark imagination. Sometimes the name of a drink, an article, or even a dog has inspired me. I tell you all about my Temple of the dog idea one day. But yes it's always nice to see other perspectives and how it can inspire you.
-You mean, you don't make your living as a professional DM?
What a mediocrity you be!
That was actually my first thought when I read RK's interview.
Well, since I've never heard of people actually willing to pay for a DM, that option has not been open to me.
I haven't read Rob's post yet but I did want to interject that there are DMs getting paid to run sessions. I am a member of a Yahoo Group that focuses on RPGs and kids and I guess in some of the private schools they have D&D clubs and they have to pay upwards of $100 a student to play and from the sounds of it the money goes right into the DMs pocket, minus whatever he had to expend but I don't even think they provided dice.. _________________ Dymond
-My kingdom for a Shield Lands map!
-You mean, you don't make your living as a professional DM?
What a mediocrity you be!
That was actually my first thought when I read RK's interview.
Well, since I've never heard of people actually willing to pay for a DM, that option has not been open to me.
I haven't read Rob's post yet but I did want to interject that there are DMs getting paid to run sessions. I am a member of a Yahoo Group that focuses on RPGs and kids and I guess in some of the private schools they have D&D clubs and they have to pay upwards of $100 a student to play and from the sounds of it the money goes right into the DMs pocket, minus whatever he had to expend but I don't even think they provided dice..
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