Special Features- could be maps, story arc, artwork, or a revisited article from CF’s past. Like the racial articles we have been discussing for a while now.
Adventures -will aim for 2-3 per issue unless we get a super-module.
Sidetreks - I think at least 1 sidetrek per issue is always good.
Cartoons or comics - similar to mortellan’s web comic or a farside like meandering this can work for both OJ and CC. It is open ground and may not be a part of every issue.
Columns – see below*
Editorial - I think this is self explanatory.
Chainmail-We should encourage fans to email inquiries or replies sort of a fan mail for the webzine. This is a great way for fan participation, and a way to prevent the misconception that has hampered the Oerth Journals participation. OJ can do something similar.
Plotlines – A sample plot and different ways to use it in a campaign. Not sure if this is an every issue feature as well.
Stat-blocks – This can work in many ways either we can place the stat blocks for the adventure and sidetreks here or choose 1-3 characters, monsters, traps, or spell-like effects to stat block that can be referenced for the future and we don’t have to lock in on 3.5 rules we can use the author created stat-blocks or do a 3.5, 2, and 1e version of the same creature so one can expand the uses for each edition.
Local Rumors – a town crier of rumors in a particular city, town, or country. I think this can be fun and might inspire some adventure ideas.
Author interview – Sort of what mort started on his blog like the ring of five though with an author who contributes to the webzine. Once again I think this is great for the OJ as well.
Some thoughts nothings a lock just some thoughts from me thought this was a way to jump start things.
This sort of colors outside the lines a bit, being more a list of suggestions in general. CC simply needs a defined modus operandi. If we really do intend to have CC be the Dungeon to OJ's Dragon, we need a line of demarcation between the two. For that we need a list of what each will cover. With the D&D mags, that was easy- one covers adventures, the other everything else. Many of the Column ideas would be better for Oj than for CC, but there could be columns too. They just have to be ones that suit whatever format CC will have. If it is the Dungeon format, the columns should be all about "adventure"- DMing 101, Critical Threats, Sidetrecks. Things like that. One might think that I left out Adventuring 101, but if this is to be the Dungeon format, it sure isn't meant for *players* to be reading. Save Adventuring 101 for the OJ then.
The original plan for CC was not that it be quite like Dungeon at all really, but simply serve as a platform to showcase things, on their own, in finished form, that would otherwise dominate any single issue of OJ and otherwise drown out any other content that there was. For example, it wouldn't be all that great to have an OJ be 120 pages long, with 90 of it being just one feature. At that point, the other 30 pages of stuff is rendered ho-hum, just a footnote. Enter the special feature pdf idea, which now has a working title of "Canonfire! Chronicles". The other purpose was to potentially collect up things on Canonfire! that would not be put into the OJ, and(with the author's blessing) put them together as their own thing; for example, a series of published articles by the same author.
So, that is the background on it all. Put forth your thoughts/ideas/opinions. I'll add more as I think of it. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
So, though the OJ is a monthly periodical, the CC would be more of a sporadical - that is, a new edition could be released as often as relevant material is available, not necessarily restricted to once a month? Sounds good to me.
I'll copy my email suggestion here too for discussion:
Hello gentlemen:
Thank you for inviting me to participate in these projects. I am very excited to be able to volunteer my time in this endeavor.
I really like some of Argon's suggestions above. The Chainmail and Stat Blocks ideas are excellent for encouraging more fan participation. Even Plot Lines and Rumors would fit this criteria. Anything that encourages more fans to contribute is a good thing.
Another idea I have, which may need much polishing, is to invite short fan-memoirs, or reminiscences, about their characters and Greyhawk experiences. This has the potential to invite many submissions of short anecdotes that we, as editors, can cull and print the most interesting of. This idea came to me when I remembered reading online a DM's account of putting together an adventure arc centered upon finding the Head of Vecna and the self-destructive antics of the players in that series of adventures. It was a hoot. I'm sure many Greyhawk fans have similarly humorous stories to tell. Such types of submissions would be far less daunting to most potential writers than a scholarly researched article would be. This may be more appropriate for the OJ than CC, though.
DarkHerald thought that a classified section in the back for people to have games that they people to join would be good. I know he also mentioned it being a good place to list things for sale though I don't know if we want the latter as this might imply we are validating the source or buyer. However the availble campaign listing would be a nice touch.
The OJ is not a monthly periodical. One comes out when there is enough material to put one out. The last one was delayed an inordinate amount of time, for various reasons. One way to avoid that is to have many more people working on it in all ways, if possible(i.e. graphic art, editing, proofreading, etc.). Between having real jobs, lives, the communication factor, and people actually doing what needs to be done on time, there is simply not enough time to do either of them on a monthly basis. Quarterly is even pushing it, though it would be nice to do it that often. To be honest, two offerings a year, for both OJ and CC, would be great. I say we aim for that, and see how it goes. The odd CC special feature offering could be thrown in here and there a they get done to bump that number up.
The biggest thing is people hitting deadlines, or doing what they say they will do. The communication factor is the next biggest thing. You'll just have to trust me on this.
Once we have a platform for things, I'll create a new forum for CC, and make sure that everyone who is going to be working on OJ/CC get access to "staff only" forums. I very much prefer forums to e-mail correspondence myself, as e-mails are cluttered with all kinds of crap, and the ideas are not all viewable at the same time like they are on a scrolling web page.
Thus this thread.
e-mail is still good though. If you want to be notified of something in a thread, like this one, scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the "Watch this topic for replies" link at the left, and an e-mail alert will be sent to you. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
As I said before we have more than enough material to put out a good couple of magazines before we ahve to worry about new content and putting hawkers under pressure for new content.
I think for now it is important that we select material that ha a similar feel in topic or related in content. The first couple of Chronciles could be the best of Canonfire editions until we get some new content in.
I personally would prefer to get as much of CF contnent into pdf format as I find it easier to read and if I choose I could print the article I am reading.
I also would like to see more interviews done with members of Canonfire in the future, sort of a celeberty interview which is open to all members. List of questions asked, with a photo, something similar to what Mortellan is doing with his Ring of 5 Questions.
Ok one thing we know for sure Special Features was the main intent of CC so it stays. Second we came up with the idea of being Dungeon to the OJ's Dragon so the two would not conflict with each other. Therefore Adventures and sidetreks are in.
I did not wish to exactly duplicate everything Dungeon magazine did though we can do so. I made suggestions above so lets vote on what stays Chainmail I think is something that works for both CC and OJ. Fanmail is what it is nice and simple. So I propose it remains. The rest can remian open for debate IMO.
We just need to finalize and move on like I said majority should rule to prevent further delays.
I vote for the following to be included in the initial CC:
Features
All those listed by Argon, assuming we get appropriate submissions on time.
Special Features (These may be determined by the highest-rated or by another criteria.)
Adventures
Sidetreks
Cartoons
Columns
Chain(fan)mail
Plotlines
Local Rumors
Author interviews (of featured authors or various Canonfire members or D&D professionals)
If we decide we can fit in more information, we can add editorials, stat-blocks, fan-memoirs, and advertisements for local gaming groups. However, I am not set in stone on this list. It's just my best estimate of what we should begin with.
I wouldn't call the mail section Chainmail, mainly as that has multiple connotations as to the miniatures rules which could end up featuring in OJ/CC.
The reason such a column worked for Dragon/Dungeon is precisely because they were monthly periodicals. OJ/CC is a "whenever it gets done" periodical, so the letters from the readers column format fits it not at all. In the absence of a monthly release schedule to support such a column properly, there is a forum for such things.
Plot Lines/Strings and Local Rumors as recurring columns fits the CC format really well though. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
The reason such a column worked for Dragon/Dungeon is precisely because they were monthly periodicals. OJ/CC is a "whenever it gets done" periodical, so the letters from the readers column format fits it not at all.
Sorry Cebrion ...
This is one of the things that irritates me the most, I would rather have something that is less frequent but consistent than have something that is ready … well when it is ready.
This doesn’t have to be an arduous task if it is just planned properly and everyone concerned knows there role in the process. I would rather see CC come out 3 times a year, on the same day than have it come out “when it is done.” There are more than enough people, material, artists that can contribute to make this work. Planning and deadlines are a necessary evil to get CC done and dusted. The first one is always going to be the difficult one get out, but do it right!
By having an eZine that is released more frequently lends itself to more opportunities within the scope of CC
I think you misunderstand. 3 issues per year would be quite fine and would be quite doable frequency-wise, if we have the proper amount of help. I am all for increasing the frequency of releases. I am not commenting on the frequency of releases though, but on a questions/feedback column.
Replying to questions/feedback on issues even every 4 months is not so fine, especially when it can be done on a forum rather instantaneously in comparison. A column for such a thing is just not as workable for something published every 4 months as it is for something published every month. Some simple instructions as to intent and a link to the appropriate e-zine forum at Canonfire! promotes the site and the e-zines through feedback/ideas/discussion, which we also want.
What we could do instead is publish as a recurring column any really good feedback/ideas/discussion threads that do pop up in the forums. That gets such feedback/ideas/discussion out to those who just download OJ/CC, but not necessarily cruise the forums. Just an idea. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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Ok seems like we stalled here a bit. I propose the following and hope we can move forward.
Special Features - covers many things and is great for our races of Oerth project. It can list many things and falls in line with the initial ideals for the ezine.
Adventures and sidetreks-This is the meat and potatoes of what CC is to be. I figure they belong in one category as we can get adventure laden issues as well as sidetrek laden ones what every we can get at the time should suffice.
?Cartoons- Would be great but who can commit to a strip for each issue. We can ask Mort not sure who else can commit to a strip thats what I would like. If Glad27 or Icarus could or would do a strip as well it would be great. But as is this might be out due to lack of available artists.
Columns
Editorial - A one page introduction to every issue this is easy and requires little effort. If it was more difficult less magazines would be doing it.
Stat-Blocks - This can be where the stat blocks for each submission for the CC lies. Divided by the submissions for each article. Also as stated above but figured we could have more options.
Bardic Tales- This can cover plot lines and local rumors into one area as well. This can cover magic or psychic items, poems, songs or an actual Bardic tale so to speak.
? Author or Artist interview - It would be nice to do a short interview per issue. However it should be limited to those authors or artists that submit content. So it might not make it into each issue. Though I think it will be great to have this feature.
If this is ok then I say a quick vote and lets make CC a reality.
I wonder, if we intend to post past articles from Canonfire! in the Features section, will we be editing them or posting them exactly as they are? The few articles I've submitted ended up with several mistakes that should have been corrected and I've discovered many mistakes in other, otherwise, excellent articles too. So, do we decide which old articles we'd like to include in CC, then ask the author's permission to do so, and ask if they have any objection to our suggested changes? That would be my recommendation.
And, I'm eagerly awaiting an opportunity to begin proofreading and editing new submissions. Do we have any yet?
I am not sure if there are any submissions, as there is nothing to ask for submissions for yet. There isn't even a cemented identity for CC yet, which is what we are just about to finalize here. CC has no "face" at this time. A while back I mentioned that nobody should rely on submissions for the first one or two issues, as CC will need to be "out there" first to garner enough interest for people to want to submit something. Hopefully people have some things to offer up.
Also, almost everyone needs to be willing to submit something themselves, if you want CC to come out regularly at all. What that mainly means for CC is writing adventures. Everybody has to be willing to cough one up. I likely have notes for one lurking about that I can put together at some point.
Another thing to consider is what everyone will be doing, or rather, what everyone is willing and able to do so far as contributing. So, list what you can/are willing to do. I'll start it off by saying that I will help with(but not head up):
Mapping
Edition conversions(1e/2e/3.5/PF)
Assist with editing
I can't promise more than that at this point, as I will be busy with other things.
So, on to the staff bit:
I think Dark Herald will be the one heading up the layout of things, so that is set(pending his agreement).
Also, I nominate Sir Xaris to be editor-in-chief. It is a thankless task, and one of the two most time consuming tasks on the staff. You'd think I hate you or something to nominate you.
Both of the above jobs are relatively easy, so far as what is required, but they are tedious and time consuming, and need to be supported in whatever way possible. That leads us to the following supporting positions: assistant editors, additional graphics/art.
While the editor-in-chief will be looking at everything (and coordinating with the layout person to make sure no copy/paste errors and such mistakes creep into the final document), the assistant editors will usually only be looking at one thing. An assistant editor's job is to go over their one thing and get it cleaned up as much as is possible, such that when the editor-in-chief goes over it, any further corrections (if any are needed) will be minimal. That just makes life a whole lot easier for one of the people who will be required to put in more time than most. In most cases, when the editor-in-chief or layout person ask you to do something, or tell you they need something, they need it now, so get it to them as soon as possible.
Other than that, a few people will need to volunteer for community outreach, as in letting people "out there" know that CC exist, and that everyone is encouraged to submit material for it. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:46 am; edited 2 times in total
I am not sure if there are any submissions, as there is nothing to ask for submissions for yet. There isn't even a cemented identity for CC yet, which is what we are just about to finalize here. CC has no "face" at this time. A while back I mentioned that nobody should rely on submissions for the first one or two issues, as CC will need to be "out there" first to garner enough interest for people to want to submit something. Hopefully people have some things to offer up.
I understand. That bit slipped my mind. I thought I remembered Argon or someone else mentioning that we already had several submissions.
Quote:
Also, almost everyone needs to be willing to submit something themselves, if you want CC to come out regularly at all. What that mainly means for CC is writing adventures. Everybody has to be willing to cough one up. I likely have notes for one lurking about that I can put together at some point.
My own adventure submission for CC is currently at 51,000+ words. Still hoping to have it done before January ends, but that's more of a dream than a realistic goal.
Quote:
Another thing to consider is what everyone will be doing, or rather, what everyone is willing and able to do so far as contributing. So, list what you can/are willing to do. I'll start it off by saying that I will help with(but not head up):
Mapping
Edition conversions(1e/2e/3.5/PF)
Editing
I can't promise more that that at this point, as I will be busy with other things.
Also, I nominate Sir Xaris to be editor-in-chief.
Yes, I'll gladly accept that responsibility if no one else objects. Thanks for the nomination.
I can:
Proofread nearly anything
Edit written pieces for extraneous/unnecessary material
Convert to 3.5e and PF (though I am a bit rusty on my 1st and 2nd edition rules, I could be a backup for them)
Submit my own materials
Scour Canonfire! articles for suggestions that the group considers appropriate to reprint as part of CC (though I'm not sure that regurgitating even exceptional pieces is a great idea for a new ezine)
Write a guest editorial now and then
As a final note, I still need serious volunteers to proofread my own adventure (the long one I mentioned above). Proofreading/editing my own works is not at all the same as proofreading/editing someone else's works. If anyone else is currently underemployed with too much time on their hands, please don't hesitate to let me know.
What rules edition is your adventure for, and how big is it?
I am writing it for 3.5e. It is currently just over 51,000 words. It is formated in MicroSoft Word 2007, three columns, Times New Roman font, size 8. There is no artwork included in it yet.
Formated that way, it comes to about 40 pages. Though size 8 may seem pretty small, it is the size that the Adventure Paths in Dungeon Magazine were typed in, so I thought it appropriate. Especially considering that it is an ezine submission, so people can enlarge it to read it more easily online. It will take a bit of reformating if you want it in a larger font size for printing purposes.
I can help with the rules questions though PF and 4th edition especially 4th edition I have little knowledge of. I can respond to the community I have no problem doing so. Editing is not my strong point never really was.
Submitting material I think we all will do that from time to time. The Special Features will host the races articles I and Michael have written so far and the long awaiting Flan article from PSmedger himself. Note this will not all be in one issue. Shield2099 has submitted an adventure that needs editing so I can forward it to you SirXaris for editing.
So we will see the size I think its around 40,000 words and was something that was meant for Living Greyhawk however the LG collapsed before he could submit it.
We will all need to lean on each other from time to time. So can we move forward and begin compiling our first issue? If more content is needed let me know I'll see what else I can gather.
Question can we use the crier as our main way of communicating info on CC or should we place it here for now?
Canonfire! Crier could surely be used for that, though I would advise holding off on using it until the very first CC is completely done and ready for release- open with bang basically. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Yes, please send me a copy for editing at my email address: sgtwitchell<at>yahoo<dot>com.
@ Everyone
I'm not sure I've seen submission guidelines anywhere (for CC or OJ) that specify what size, type of font, and how many columns we want submissions to be formated in. If they exist, please point me to them. If they don't, we need to decide. I've mentioned the formating of my own adventure, but Duicarthan's adventure was in a larger font and only two columns in OJ 26. I assume we want the various articles, etc. in the ezine to be of a uniform format, so that issue needs to be addressed quickly.
I'm not sure I've seen submission guidelines anywhere (for CC or OJ) that specify what size, type of font, and how many columns we want submissions to be formated in. If they exist, please point me to them.
See HERE, last file. All of that may very well change though, and not just for CC but for OJ too. It is a good place to start though, it being a clone Paizo's old Dragon/Dungeon magazine format. Some people don't like it though. I find it easy to read/easy on the eyes, but of course there are plenty of pleasing fonts, so I am not set on it by any means. I loathe overly baroque fonts that are not so easy to read. Green Ronin used to publish some 3e accessory books that were filled with overly complex, difficult to read fonts, and I didn't buy many of them due to that annoyance(even though the content of some of them was quite good). _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Thanks Ceb, but I've read all the way through that link several times and can't find the specifics I'm asking for -- prefered size, font, and number of columns.
Submitting material I think we all will do that from time to time. The Special Features will host the races articles I and Michael have written so far and the long awaiting Flan article from PSmedger himself.
I don't know about these. Is there a reason for them to not be in the Oerth Journal?
Thanks Ceb, but I've read all the way through that link several times and can't find the specifics I'm asking for -- prefered size, font, and number of columns.
Do we have a list of whats available for the CC? Right now looks like Sheild 2099 submissions is on a delay. So this could push SirXaris 's adventure forward. This way if more content is required I can work on acquiring this content.
Do we have a list of whats available for the CC? Right now looks like Sheild 2099 submissions is on a delay. So this could push SirXaris 's adventure forward. This way if more content is required I can work on acquiring this content.
Thanks
Argon
Shield2099's adventure submission is the only article that I have had forwarded to me so far for proofreading/editing. It is complete except for the corrections I have suggested. However, as Argon mentioned, Shield2099 has informed me that he may not be able to make those corrections any time soon for personal reasons. It would be easy to submit the adventure as a final draft with my suggestions made permanent, but I'm not comfortable finalizing such changes without the author's approval. So, until we hear back from Shield2099, his submission is on hold.
My own adventure is nearly complete. I am awaiting a few serious critiques, maps, and additional artwork. (All three criteria are currently in the works.) Then I will submit it.
If there are any other submissions beyond mine and Shield2099's, please send them to me so that I may proofread/edit them as soon as possible.
We have the race articles and at least one adventure which is monstrous. The race articles where previously edited but I can send you 3 of them but the baklunish one is still with Michael. I'll see what I can do. But only one race article should be released in the first issue as it seems it will be bursting with pages from content.
I would like to see at least a maximum 3000 word side-trek or mini-adventure. If anyone else has one this would be great if not let me know I'll put something together.
Bardic tales and stat block is easy to do. Plus once we have what is going into issue one Gary or perhaps Ceb will do the one page editorial. I'm sure DH is ready to format just waiting on the other pieces.
Okay, writing is complete on my adventure (76,000+ words). Final editing has commenced. Artwork and maps are being produced.
Lots of artwork has been requested for this project, however, so if there is anyone that would like to tackle some of the pieces, I'd appreciate the offer. This production is a volunteer effort on my part, but I am willing to compensate such an artist $1 per piece in order for the work to be referenced as a paying gig.
I've already incorporated many of your editing/proofreading suggestions and look forward to your comments on the updated version I sent you. Hope you like the expanded Side Treks.
No problem I'll look at it when I get a chance working on some 3rd level runes for Secret of the runes part IV and, planning this weeks Bissel game. I can probably review it over the weekend again.
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