Canonfire!

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:35 am To Fudge...or Not?

Baronzemo has inspired me.

As a DM, what is your perspective on this issue, and why?

I tried to make this into a poll, but rolled a "20" on my 'follow instructions' roll...and made it into a thread instead. Embarassed

Hey, at least that rhymed...

If an admin has the "Power" feel free to modify it into a Poll. I cannot seem to amend it...

-Lanthorn, vexed

edit by grodog: instant poll :D

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:29 am

Tough one. As a DM I have fudged roll's a few times in the past. The one that comes to mind is the players were to capture one of the main villains henchmen. But that night, the players dice were ice cold and I was red hot. So after a fudged "save" roll the henchmen was knocked out and captured.
Is it cheating? If a player fudges a roll that cheating but a DM it's not?
I'm now going to step away from this one Confused

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:38 am

Honestly? I "fudge" whenever I need to, whenever it suits my "game plan."

As a DM, I'm telling a story and I want certain things to happen. Right "now," I want the PCs to "run away." To accomplish this . . . you'll be surprised how many times in a row I can roll a natural 20. Wink

"Now," I want the PCs to "win." You'll be surprised how many times I roll "1."

But I never "fudge" in order to get PCs killed. I definitely "fudge" to prevent TPKS -- always. I hate TPKs.

But that's just me. Some DMs don't like fudging simply because they hate being in control. Pity. Sad

But that's just me. Evil Grin

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Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:48 am

I never fudge a die roll. I roll all dice out in front of the PCs. It makes the results more epic and acceptable when they know the DM isn't arbitrarily deciding the outcome of an encounter (in my opinion/experience, anyway Wink

).

However, I do fudge. I do it by altering the hit points of an opponent, mostly. I don't allow the players to see my notes/modules, so they don't know how many hit points a monster has. If they have too easy a time killing off the BBEG, I simply ignore the fact that they have done so and add hit points in my head. I keep the action going that way until it seems a more appropriate time to end the fight. Waiting until a PC scores a critical hit is ideal. Cool

I can also fudge by adding more opponents/minions than the adventure originally called for. Of course, if the situation calls for it, I can fudge in the PCs' favor by lowering the hit points of the BBEG or diminishing the number of minions, etc.

So, yes I fudge, but not with dice rolls.

SirXaris

Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:13 pm

I fudge. Rarely, but it happens. I often 'belly-ache' on some situations, and though my players have chided me, accusing me of being the "Killer DM," in truth, I don't like to kill characters. Maim, injure, or kick their butts, on the other hand... Evil Grin

Truthfully, though, I don't want to leave everything to a die roll, but I don't like the idea of negating the chance that a character can perish. I think that diminishes the thrill, the excitement, the true sense of 'mortality.' But...that's for another poll, perhaps.

However, I will typically let me player know in advance that if I fudge for that character (usually ONLY once per campaign), then I will do so likewise for 'the bad guys' too. I guess at heart I like balance, like a gaming 'druid.' Wink

I've even given the player the decision at times, with the clear knowledge this is the one fudge he gets...and with the certainty that the opposition now gets one, too.

-Lanthorn

Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:46 pm

I rarely fudge anything, just let it play out, and roll with the unexpected results. Those unexpected results can often end up being better for the campaign.
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Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:22 pm

I'm with Cebrion. I always roll on the table (except the rolls that are secret rolls, such as sense motive).

Sometimes a certain level of Darwinism is needed in RPGs so that the adventuring group will mold into a functioning team. Sometimes everybody is a wizard or rogue and no one has respectable amount of hp and/or divine magic. I don't stop that from happening. I don't say "someone has to be a fighter or a cleric". You go with those options and as I roll on the table your PC most likely will not last for long but it's ok - you can always create another one.

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:32 pm

Jason---

I or another admin (or moderator perhaps?) can make this a poll, but we need to know what you want the poll options to be. Spell 'em out, and I or someone else can cut/paste them in.
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Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:43 pm

I have rarely fudged a roll. In cases where I have fudged a roll or forgone a roll more likely was to limit character death. Especially in a scenario I did not intend to have as a major battle sometimes it can throw the game off. I have adjust hit points and other stats on npcs to make them more or less of a challenge when needed. Though I often let things remain as rolled. Good roleplaying may make more of a difference then ones actually skill level sometimes. Though if it makes no sense for a particular character to know or behave in such a way then its my duty as the DM to balance things out.

Later

Argon

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:51 pm

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:18 pm

Sorry for the troubles...I should just leave this thing to 'the pros' like Baronzemo. Embarassed

Thank you kindly!

-Lanthorn the Inept Confused

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:41 pm

Do you fudge? Yes or No?

Sundaes definitely! Laughing

I might even sprinkle. Smile

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:34 am Fudge, no. Change the scenario, yes.

If you're worried about a TPK, then I stop throwing such big and bad stuff at them, otherwise why roll? Let the gamble of the dice play out or it's not a gamble. Where's the surprise? If the characters die and you want them alive, figure out a way to bring them back but I'm not for ignoring the roll--I'm rolling for a reason or why bother rollling?

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:58 am

No fudge in this campaign sundae.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:02 am Re: Fudge, no. Change the scenario, yes.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:12 am Re: Fudge, no. Change the scenario, yes.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:38 pm

All I'm saying is a little fudge sundae is ok once in a while. Now, if you add nuts sprinkles whipped cream, cherries, bananas, and brownies (the non-fey kind). Then your getting away from a game at all, plus your going to expand a lot in the wrong areas. Laughing

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:53 pm

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:34 pm

I took a crystal ball from an evil wizard I slayed. Some how it tunes into a table surrounded by cats and dice. Laughing

Later

Argon

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:55 pm

I personally think it depends on to what level something is called a fudge.

Allowing a foes to "make a save" for the betterent of the story = no fudge
Preventing TPK from happening due to unlucky rolls = no fudge
Preventing TPK from happening due stupidity on behalf of players = fudge (somethimes players need to learn the hardway)

As can be seen fro above I have fudged rolls on a number of times but only for the betterment of the campaign. If you are going to fudge rolls willy nilly what is the point of rolling at all. Also if you players get a hint of this then the reality of game death is taken away as "DM will fudge the death blow on character X"

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:01 pm

Rockhaven,

I think me you and Mystic are in agreement. Fudging, to keep continuity in a game is fine. Yet, fudging just to fudge is wrong. Damn why do I feel like I need a fudging intervention. Shocked

No really I got it under control that Fudgy the whale was asking for it, Duncan Hines that harlot spreading her fudge brownies all over the place, don't even get me started on Mrs. Sara Lee! Wink

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:02 pm Keep in Mind, It's Supposed to Be Fun

For the game to be fun, I think I've had a great time as a player where we encountered a beholder, tried to run, tried to fight, and all died...with characters we weren't attached to. In this game, when we play a character for a long period of time, we enjoy the attachment of the character and its progression. To lose a character that you've spent a significant amount of time building up from 1st level and then end up with same lame reason it died so you can never play it again doesn't sit well with most people. I think the DM challenge here is if you face that situation, how can you as a DM give such characters another chance at being played without cheapening the danger. I think if the DM cooks up a senerio where the character gets to come back to life, the players are on notice to consider retireing characters they are attached to by enforcing the rule about the PC only has as many chances to come back to life as there were constitution points.