Canonfire!

Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:06 pm Clerics vs. Specialty Priests

NOT attempting a poll...sticking to what I 'know.' Wink

I am interested in finding out how each of you, as DM, runs and rules the difference between clerics and specialty priests, in terms of duties, responsibilities, obligations, and the like within the structure of the faith.

For instance, I have taken the stance that specialty priests are "paragons" of their respective faiths, much in the same way that paladins are held to a higher standard. When a player wants to role-play a specialty priest, I expect that player to role-play a character with a much deeper sense of duty and responsibility to his/her Power. I am not talking about a fanatic or zealot, though some may say they are one and the same (I don't). What I mean is that, to me, a specialty priest is religiously imbued with greater abilities and powers due to more intensive religious (mental, physical, spiritual) training. Furthermore, a specialty priest should take the fore on duties, obligations, and responsibilities for his/her faith.

Additionally, I expect more out of that character in terms of adhering more strictly to the portfolio, creed, and ethos of his/her chosen Power. If a character fails to do so, I will strip that priest's special abilities and powers until a proper Atonement is fulfilled. For instance, when a player role-playing a specialty priest (crusader, actually) of Heironeous knowingly spoke a blatant lie (under duress) to a group of villagers in the hopes of bolstering their morale, I removed his specialty powers. He only just received them back after 'atoning' for his sin.

I am interested to hear what each of you has done in your own respective games, partly out of curiosity, and partly in the hopes of getting some good insight and ideas for my own campaigns.

obliged,

Lanthorn, not so Special Wink

Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:29 pm

I still have hope for you to get the "polling" thing down.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:23 pm

Ideally, in my game, all "clerics" (ie, the Cleric class), are specialty priests. A priest of Velnius & a priest of Kord should differ in many way, not just the holy symbol.

The downside is that this can be a lot of work, especially in 3x, where you essentially have to design a new class (though someone did make a pretty good "non-generic cleric" class that you can pick & choose features for--I found the pdf online somewhere, I think someone on these or the Paizo boards pointed me to it). One thing I really liked about 2E was the concept of grouping cleric spells into spheres, & I think 3E's introduction of domains was a poor substitute.

I could see maybe the Cleric class being used for a pantheon priest, or perhaps as part of a martial religious organization spanning several faiths, which might explain Boccobite & Jasian priests in plate armor.

Edit: Here's the 3E non-generic cleric i was referring to: https://sites.google.com/site/grindorsgoods/nongenericcleric

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:32 pm

Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:35 pm

I agree with you in this, Lanthorn. A specialty priest gives up some of his personal freedom by devoting his life to a very intense promotion of his god's virtues. The reward for such intensity is a few extra powers not realized by the generic cleric of the same god.

SirXaris

Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:00 pm

The thing I liked most about specialty priests was all the additional info one often got on the deity and the religion. IMHO Faiths ans Avatars was a great product. IMC priests with no spell power and cleric are my specialty priests in a way as they have spell power and I gave them the specialty powers.

The additional powers beyond spheres and a few spells for the faith itself were fine by me. It was the additional info on the religion that made it for me.

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:02 pm

I generally class my "religious persons" into four categories, each tending to a different "need" of their God. (The breakdown that follows is very simplistic and can be enlarged upon).

Priest are "specialist" found in the Temples, tending to Church business: Teaching the flock, dealing with local authorities and charity work.

Monks are "specialist" found in Monasteries: Researching religious writings and histories in order to "help" in formulating Church teachings, doctrines and policies.

Paladins are the Church's "specialist" warriors: Protecting the Church and the flock from the machinations and minions of Evil Beings, be they Gods, Devils, or Demons.

Clerics are "Generalist," or "non-specialist," and thus, a little of all three:

(1) They act as traveling ministers tending to the needs of believers they meet along the way -- be it teaching scripture, healing, or . . . performing marriages between "believers." *

(2) They search (adventure) for forgotten, or lost religious lore and writings, or even new "insights" given them by their God, which they can take back to the Temple, or Monastery.

(3) They war against the machinations and minions of Evil Beings that they encounter in the course of their journeys.

How does this translate in the Game?

Clerics are better all around "religious persons" to have when adventuring. However:

Priest are able to perform greater/more powerful healing spells then Clerics; Head to the Temple for a Resurrection.

Monks know more about the "Will of God," as well as the "doings of demons" than does a Cleric; Head to the Monastery if you need vital information concerning a specific demon type, or the machinations of a certain cult. #

Paladins are much better at slaying devils, demons, evil priests and vampires then is your "simple" Cleric; Don't visit any layer of Hell, or the Abyss, without your Paladin. Wink

* In addition to "automatically" getting a holy symbol, my Clerics "automatically" get a Seal which can be affixed to documents needing a "religious person's" endorsement, such as a marriage license. Adds flavor to the game.

# Adding a monastery to your game not only allows for some "different" interaction, but allows you to use some really cool Religious Titles to boot! (quick reference - 2e DMG pgs 244 & 245)

But, that's just me. Wink

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Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:43 pm

MS, I like your breakdown and demarcations with respect to various religious duties for each 'category.' Interesting structure outlining and describing their roles within the religious order, temple, or church.

thank you for sharing,

-Lanthorn

Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:39 pm

Yes, Mystic, that is an interesting spearation of religious powers and responsibilities. I like it very much and intend to implement it in my own campaign.

Thanks! Smile

SirXaris

Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:25 pm

Agreed on that point. Furthermore, I see 'specialty' priests as the 'divinely chosen' of the respective faiths, perhaps specifying a particular aspect of the Power's portfolio they have chosen to serve. Bastion of Faith did a nice job doing something like that with the various clergy of Heironeous.

We've mentioned monks, clerics, specialty priests, and paladins...but let us not forget crusaders, too! I put them in a similar role within a church structure to that of the paladin (in Mystic's example).

-Lanthorn

Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:15 pm

Mystic,

You and I are on the same page though I had clerics in your priest field and priests in your cleric field. Though I also see monks as knowing more of the will of god , I never thought to make them the go to guys for demonology. Nice break down of the roles.

Lanthorn you can make crusaders be the main militant arm of a church often lead by a paladin or high ranking crusader in religion without paladins. If you use mystics they could be more knowledgeable of the other planes of existence and outer planar beings. Shamans are more knowledgeable of their patrons portfolios and how it interacts with their community. While witchdoctors often learn of arcane and divine magic and how the two can be drawn from similar, though different sources.

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:28 am

Thanks guys! Happy

I like Argon's take on the Crusader. Make him a sort of Squire type, in that:

Squires did learn to fight and often did fight at their Master's side. At a certain point, they were little more than "knights-in-waiting." They were knights in skill, but not in name.

Crusaders are part of the Military Arm of the Church, led by Paladins. Once they have achieved a certain level of recognition in battle, they are invited to join the ranks of the Paladins.

I must admit that I've never used the Crusader "kit" (I suppose?), but always supposed them to be a type of Paladin. I see in Argon's suggestion what I have said above. It would give your PC something to work for. Cool

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Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:52 am

Crusaders definitely kick a$$! They get fighter THACO, and I believe also d10 hp! They are surely the fighting front of their respective temples or churches. Only faiths with a combat/war aspect would have crusaders (St Cuthbert, Heironeous, Pholtus, but also Hextor, Nerull, perhaps Iuz) in their ranks. The caveat to their enhanced fighting prowess is that the cannot turn or command undead. Otherwise, they are very effective and potent soldiers of Faith.

-Lanthorn

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:41 pm

If I remember correctly Crusaders were made into a class for the 2e system. One can also use crusaders in place of paladins for faiths that would not support a paladin class. Though I could see Crusders for faiths that are not normally known for a combat or war aspect. A Crusader of Rao might try bring the word of peace to the common man. He will often act as a defender and try to prevent attacking enemies as his goal is to convert them by showing a passsive aggressive approach to combat.

Just an idea. Though a crusader of knowledge Delleb. It can work just tweak them a bit. These crusaders might protect ancient libraries, and holy relics of the faith. They could also be the protectors of sages and scholars.

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:47 pm

Crusaders, shamans, and witchdoctors were presented in Player's Options: Spells & Magic. They are all types of clerics with their own unique benefits and drawbacks.

Crusaders are essentially warrior-priests without being multi- or dual-classed. Although I suppose it is not out of the realm of possibility, I (personally) would not advocate for any faith to have crusaders unless they had some type of war, battle, or conflict portfolio (or access to the Spheres of Combat and/or War). The book mentions that crusader is normally associated with war gods, or those gods "with a leadership or strong alignment that is in conflict with an opposing force." Rao didn't really advocate unilaterally against Iuz until after the Greyhawk Wars, and though he his agents have worked against Evil (hence, the Crook of Rao and its retrieval), again, I don't see his faithful having heavily armed and armored clerics. Pelor, perhaps, but again, not so sure. Only recently has even Pelor turned more 'martial.'

To quote Mystic, "That's just me." Wink

-Lanthorn

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:53 pm

Lanthorn,

Your view is fine. After all that's your view. I was merely stating instead of altering the paladin class for chaotic and evil gods amongst other types. Crusaders could fill the niche instead for those faiths with a little bit of tweaking. Just a take on how it could work. Take it for what its worth.

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:16 pm

There's nothing (in the book) saying that Chaotic or Evil gods cannot have their own crusaders. The only alignment restriction was Neutral (in any variation). Crusaders of Iuz, Nerull, Hextor...all totally plausible.

-Lanthorn

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:20 pm

Lanthorn,

I was referring to paladins for those aligned other then lawful good faiths which have alter alignment paladins. Crusaders fill that niche nicely without altering the paladin class.

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:36 pm

Forgive my increase in mental density. Confused

Your re-clarified point is duly noted, recorded, and I agree (for what it is worth or not).

-Lanthorn, Lead Head

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:51 pm

No problem Lanthorn.

Even a Ramman (He-man reference) can suffer a mental lapse now and then. Razz

Later

Argon

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:18 am

Just out of curiosity, in order to continue my dialog, I quickly scanned the DMG, PHB and CPH and I don't see any specific mention of "Crusader." Confused

Where, exactly, are you two getting your information? What 2e Source Book are you using?
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Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:23 am

Player's Option: Spells & Magic

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:18 pm

Lanthorn,

I also remember them having a mention in either faiths and avatars and/or powers and pantheons. Yes they are FR source books though I think any setting could benefit from the same kind of treatment those books added to the pantheons.

Later

Argon

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:40 am

Found it. Pages 32 & 33.

You might need to exercise caution, however. If I remember correctly, in "newer" editions, Paladins of Pelor are properly refered to as "Crusaders," to distinguish them from other Paladins.

Confusion awaits! Evil Grin

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm

Mystic Scholar,

I feel an Abbott and Costello skit coming on. What do you call a paladin of the church of Heironeous? A paladin. A paladin of Rao? A paladin? Ok a paladin of Pelor? A crusader. Ok, so Pelor does not have a branch of paladins? Yes he does. Ok, so we have paladins of Pelor? Yeah, crusaders. I thought you said he has paladins? Yeah,crusaders. Ok so what do you call a crusader of Heironeous? A crusader. Ok, and a crusader of Rao? A crusader.
Ok, and a crusader of Pelor? A paladin. I was talking about crusaders. Ok. Ok, so a crusader is a paladin? No, hes a crusader. Who's a crusader? No, who's an inquistor of Delleb. LOuuu.... Baa..bott... Laughing

Later

Argon

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:07 pm

<snicker snicker>

Sigh...I guess a rose with any other name still smells as sweet???

-Lanthorn

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:55 am

Argon,

I think you have the right idea. Wink

_________________
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Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:29 pm

Mystic-Scholar,

Thanks for getting the skit. Those were some of the best comedians.

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:36 am

So...routing the conversation back 'on track'...

What tasks, duties, obligations do you all require of your respective specialty priests above and beyond the typical cleric?

To what degree do you hold them accountable to a higher religious standard to maintain their 'specialty' status?

-Lanthorn

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:48 pm

Lanthorn,

That depends on which god they serve. I also believe their is a commonality that takes place amongst specialty priests of different deities. Like a SP of Kord does not oversee the birth rights of the clergy at least not alone. So lets say WeeJas night be an example of overseeing birth and death rights. Yes, she is a goddess of death and magic. Though one can liken magic with birth as many primitive cultures do. Though Prlor would fit birth, Nerull would oversee death and many martial deities may claim death rights for fallen warriors. It depends on region, and faith as well. In the Pale only Pholtians see over everything. Though IMHO SP should be the living embodiment of their gods portfolio. So any tasks that promote these ideals would be prominent for an SP.

Though I add another aspect as many followers or other members of the church hold these ideals, only a chosen few have the ability to truly channel their gods power. Hence, they are chosen from the ranks of the church or sort after to perpetuate their gods will.

Later

Argon

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:38 pm

There were some really darned good products that came out (IMO) with respect to outlining, developing, and describing not only general clerics, but specialty priests, too.

For instance, there is Bastion of Faith. The information in there is really helpful for any self-respecting Heironean, and I also like the information on Hextor, too. SirXaris BETTER have this reference guide or lose his paladinhood!

Then there's Iuz the Old and all the wealth of information that tome gave on that vile religion.

I liked what The Scarlet Brotherhood did, too, including MANY Suel faiths in their guide, namely Wee Jas, Bralm, Syrul, and Pyremius.

Sadly, it ended pretty much there. Mad

I was really hoping more products would follow the same pathway, outlining and detailing subsequent faiths...but alas...it was not meant to be... Cry

That's a shame and missed opportunity. It would've made 'them' more revenue while providing great source material for 'us'!

-Lanthorn

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:52 pm

One of the products made back in 2e that was excellent IMO was Faiths and Avatars for the FR setting. If every game world received that type of treatment all of the settings would of fared much better. It included holidays, vestment, ceremonies, inner workings of the church, common beliefs and practices, aliases for the deity, and speicality spells unique to the deity. Churches and locations of common worship as well as the najor centers of worship.

Yes this was well done and executed. So even if you don't plan on playing in an FR campaign it is worth the investment.

Later

Argon

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:12 pm

Sounds great, but wondering what Greyhawk crossover material can be found therein...

-Lanthorn

Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:53 pm

I, for one, am completely intrigued and somewhat baffled by Wastri. I know he's the demigod of bigotry, racial superiority / supremacy and slavery(?) which are terrible things but he's also batrachian in nature with seemingly divine aspects for bullywugs, giant toads, etc.

On top of that humans in the slave trade also worship him? How do we reconcile the superiority of humans aspect with the batrachian aspect? If he's the demigod of racial superiority, then only one of these races that worship him can "win", no? Or are we talking about creating a single, "master race" that is a blend of human and batrachian?

Sorry, it's a bit of a derail but he would have only specialty priests and perhaps paladins (crusaders) as I see it.

Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:59 am

Elliva, I agree that Wastri is a conundrum. It seems that his less than human appearance is lost on the Power. According to what I have read, Wastri has an affinity with amphibians (and even reptiles, at times) b/c they inhabit an area that is not contested with the hated demi-follk. Wastri is angered that demi-humans have occupied environments that could be used for human habitations, and thus, they are enemies to humanity.

Does that help?

-Lanthorn

p.s. if you've not already, read the associated Wastri post that I created

Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:40 am

As for Wastri, let's just say he has a pet frog. Human race bigot, the amphibian/reptilian races still worship him. Though these worshipers are aware they would be second to the human equivalent. As these creatures take up residence in areas most humans would avoid.

Lanthorn, I shall seek out your webbed toed god thread. Wink

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:05 pm

Excellent, Argon! It was created b/c I wanted some perspective and input since I was planning and plotting on a campaign... Evil Grin

"All" will be revealed when I continue my 'story' about the Mistmarsh campaign in the appropriate thread of that name. Wink

-Lanthorn

Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:32 pm

The points Lanthorn and Argon make are some of the justifications used by Wastri and his priests for the contrariness of his doctrine.

It is my belief that the contrary portions of his portfolio/doctrine were purposeful creations that speak to the god's near insanity. Wastri is a creature of hate and hatred seeks to be justified. Such justifications as are created in the mind of the angry individual may seem perfectly valid to them, yet fail laughably in the light of logic and reason. Thus, I run such priests as fanatics preaching hateful doctrine from street corners (where they are tolerated) while the commonfolk shake their heads at the nonsense while passing by.

Imagine how you would react to a Neo-nazi or a member of the KKK shouting on a street corner and holding a sign saying other races need to be exterminated. Not only would you desire to strangle the idiot, but you'd wonder, at least briefly, how s/he could believe the illogical justifications of racism they voice. Such are those who worship Wastri. They are so filled with hate that they can't see reason and logic when addressing that particular issue.

SirXaris

Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:22 pm

Sir Xaris,

It seems your sojourn to Gen Con has reaffirmed your paladin code. Yes, hate makes the illogical, logical in the mind of those consumed by hate. The hopping prophet spouts nonsense that makes sense. Unfortunately, this type of sense gives way to ignorance that is blissful for none involved. The amphibians/reptiles may be what he perceives to be the dominant non-human species on Oerth. More to come on the Toadaly... racist deity.

Later

Argon

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:39 am

I know this thread was from back in August but I'm playing catch up!

In my games there is little distinction between a cleric and a speciality priest other than their natural ability and the powers that opens up. A speciality priest is naturally gifted in the eyes of their Faith (ie meets the ability prerequsites). This natural skill and talent allows them to achieve the understanding to access the special abilities granted to a speciality priest.

Clerics make up the majority of a Faith's clergy and often have more average ability scores. Despite their best intentions the greater powers and mysteries of their deity are beyond them. Admittedly this can sometimes lead to resentment.

Speciality priests are more likely to achieve positions of power in their Faith and are considered paragons. However there are also high expectations of them from both their deity and their Faith. The higher you are the further you have to fall.

Both clerics and spec priests are required to adhere to weapon and armour restrictions and clerics can only access the same spheres as the spec priest. The way I see it those are the only spheres a deity is able to grant to anyone so clerics don't get to pick spells from a more general list.

In my games I've tried to cultivate a more real-world medieval feel that is in keeping with that kind of vibe I get about Greyhawk. Therefore I have (maybe cruelly) disallowed monks for most religions as their martial arts element doesn't fit. The Scarlet Brotherhood churches have monks as martial arts are part of their culture, as do the some of the Baklunish faiths (in particular Xan Yae and Zuoken). For other Faiths monks are more akin to friars and treated class wise like a cleric or spec priest.

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:44 am

Wolfling,

Nothing wrong with resurrecting a post. Besides it's always good to get feedback from fellow fans of the setting.

Later

Argon

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:08 pm

Young Canis lupus,

I think you and I have a similar perspective with regards to running specialty priests and clerics, at least in terms of church hierarchy and influence. I also hold specialty priests to a 'higher standard' in how they are played and how they uphold the tenets of their representative faiths. In some respects, they are, to me, like the paladins of their orders, and must maintain a more rigid code of behavior, particularly within their religious dogma. In addition, there is the extra cost to XP (I charge a flat 10% fee, across the board) for leveling. But the benefits of 'specialization' within a faith are the bonus powers granted to them.

My only real wish is that we were offered a book much like Bastion of Faith and The Scarlet Brotherhood that outlined ALL the faiths of Greyhawk and the bonuses their speciality priests were granted to the depth those books provided.

-Lanthorn

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:19 pm

Lanthorn,

It is a 2E FR product, but Faiths and Avatars got it right. You should pick it up and see what ideas you can mine from its pages.

Later

Argon

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:22 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:30 pm

We have an unofficial one Sean Reynolds created a version for 2nd edition. Check out his website you might find some goodies.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/we/greyhawkdeities.html

Later

Argon

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:29 am

Good call regarding Faiths & Avatars (I still dream of a Greyhawk version!), I need to check it out to get some inspiration. I have a player who likes to play clerics but likes to know what the speciality priests powers are - I swear he cycles through deities just to test my creative skills!

I tend to avoid XP penalties where possible. I make my players randomise their abilities AND roll them in order (no placing rolls into where they'd like them to go) so I don't like to penalise them for having the fortune to get the right scores. The exception is if the spec priest powers seem unbalanced in which case I offer them a choice - to take the xp penalty or to take a 'dumbed down' version. I've also been toying with placing a blanket xp penalty on all spec priests of demi-gods to represent the fact that their deity is still perhaps struggling with developing their own powers.

That Seak K Reynolds link looks like 3.5 domains not 2nd edition spheres though?
I'd love to see a document pooling together all the 2nd edition Greyhawk deity info with the numerous blanks filled in to make one established source we could all use.

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:05 pm

Wolfling,

Like your "priestly" player, both my main player and I like to dabble with as many different faiths as possible. Granted, he and I have our own personal preferences (he is a Heironean, while I favor the Summoner), but we have also played (PCs and NPCs alike) the following (non-inclusive list?) in our campaigns to add variety: St Cuthbert, Zilchus, Procan, Kord, Fharlanghn, Pelor, Rao, Ehlonna, Phyton, Corellon Larethian, Kirith Sotheril, Sehanine Moonbow, Berei, Obad-hai, Clangeddin, Muamman Duathal, Ulaa, and Pholtus.

As antagonists/enemies of the characters, I can cite the following Evil Powers: Iuz (common favorite), Hextor, Pyremius, Syrul, Kurell, Nerull (I am currently getting my arse handed to me in one campaign by a cult of the Reaper), Incabulos (one of my favorite creations is a werewolf high priest serving this Power), Beltar, Gruumsh, Erythnul, and just recently in a game, Wastri. Finally, I add as many humanoid Powers as I can when applicable.

As in cooking, I think that variety adds 'spice' to a game. Cooker-cutter characters become dull and 'tasteless' like oatmeal, at least in my mind.

You will find much information about many of the Powers, according to a variety of authors, by doing a Canonfire! search. However, if you have any specific pantheonic questions (including priestly spheres, weapon and armor allowance, special powers, etc), just ask away! I am sure you will cultivate a lot of information that way. I know that I have.

-Lanthorn

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:25 pm

Try this link instead.

http://www.ocjacqui.com/freeporter/gods/lists/

Not all the gods are listed, though a 2e format is used.

Later

Argon

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:33 pm

Argon, that is one impressive list!

Now all we gotta do is create a priestly codex to go with those not already described by From the Ashes, Greyhawk Adventures hardback, and the various supplementary guides such as Scarlet Brotherhood, Bastion of Faith, and Monster Mythology. Shocked

-Lanthorn, Divinely Overwhelmed

Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:20 pm

Lanthorn,

Thanks I do try. Glad to be of service for my 2nd edition friends. Wink

Later

Argon

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:29 am

Thanks Argon, that's a handy list to have.

Actually Lanthorn's mention on The Summoner reminds me, one of the two priests in my current party is one of Trithereon. He asked me an interesting question which was; "If Trithereon is the god of freedom and liberty why does he have a connection to Summoning which implies controlling or entrapment?" My answer was that rather than binding the summoned creatures to his will to serve him for Trithereon they are willing allies that come to help a servant of the Summoner through choice. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about that though ... or maybe this would be better in a different thread? I don't want to go off at a tangent!

Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:48 am

Wolfling, I would love to "go off" on a wild arse tangent here about Trithereon the Summoner...but...go ahead and create a new thread and let us discuss this at length!

Happy

-Lanthorn, Freely Serving (?) the Summoner!

P.S. and with this response, I arise as Grandmaster Lanthorn Evil Grin

Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:13 pm

Wolfling create a new topic on the Church, Hierarchy, or spheres of the Summoner or gods in general.

Later

Argon