Canonfire!

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:31 am Question #4

Lanthron ask'd me if I would post this poll for him Smile

OK then, why or why not is what it comes down too.

I have killed PC's and have had TPK's in the past. I do however give all of my players at the start of my camp. the "Save My Butt" card. This is a one time use card and could be used for anything. From not falling to your death to a one time "20"

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:41 am

I am certainly NOT a killer DM. I've only TPKed once in my career and most of the time my goal is to make the PCs screw up bad enough to kill themselves. I also sometimes like to make life so difficult they'd wish their character was dead. Heh heh.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:23 pm

I voted "yes" only because I allow it to happen. Statements made on other threads may have mislead some.

What I do not allow is Total Party Kills (TPKs). I will not allow the entire party to die. I am telling a story, not "hack and slashing."

That's what some here do, and by that I mean: "Hey! We'll just start the game again!"

Sorry . . . no. I'm taking my players from point "A" to point "B." I'm not interested in starting all over again because they all went and got killed. No one enjoys that and no one has fun with that. No, they don't.

If one, or two, get killed along the way . . . so be it. I allow Resurrection and Raise Dead, so . . . not a problem. That's why we have Clerics in the game -- even though some will disagree.

So, yes, I allow characters to die, but I don't deliberately try to kill them off.

But that's just me. Wink

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Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:36 pm

I guess I"m like most here; I have fudged to prevent (TPK). For me the story is paramount and to wipe out an entire party thus ending the storyline over an unlucky role seems unfair. However, a few fatalities that encourage the rest to strive to resurrect them and hopefully teach the slain to be more cautious, next time is fine with me.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:42 pm

'Zemo, thanks for being my poll herald. Apologies for my ineptitude.

Ok, now to my answer, and the reason why.

I replied "Yes," b/c I think that encompasses the "Sometimes" answer. To me, either you do or do not allow characters to die.

Earlier in the evolution of my DMing career, I was much harsher, I think. I would be lying if I said I never did a Total Party Kill. I don't think so, but I've been playing this game for over 20 yrs now. So I won't make a blanket statement like that.

However, in recent memory, NO, I have not run a TPK. I've slain NUMEROUS NPCs who were major figures in a party, and even totally freaked out a player when I killed his paladin's brother. To me, (solid, important) NPCs are (slightly) more expendable than PCs. The rest may as well be canon fodder.

I don't like killing PCs, but I will. If you make a foolish, reckless choice, I have little sympathy if your PC dies. If you think that you can defeat every foe because 'the good guys always win,' think again. You're in for a real shock in my game. Sometimes the best option is to RUN (yes, Heironeans, this means you, too!) or evade the enemy entirely, and live to fight another day (and perhaps get into a better tactical position for a victory).

I think the bloodiest game I've run recently was my Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth saga. More characters, mainly NPCs, have died in that game than I can count offhand. True, I added a 'curve ball' to the plotline by having two rival factions (one loyal to Iuz, the other loyal to Lerrek the lich) vying for the hidden treasures within, and those two groups garnered more victims than the creatures of the Caverns themselves! It has turned into an epic campaign, largely because of the lethality, the risks, and the definitive Good vs. Evil undertone. And maybe, just maybe, the rewards will be worth it in the end...

In short, YES, I kill characters. But I don't go out of my way to do it as a matter of being vindictive, and surely don't make a habit out of it.

-Lanthorn

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:14 pm

As often as they let me.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:53 pm

Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:27 pm

I had to have 100+ player kills under my belt in order to even be considered as a writer for Total Party Kill Games. My initiation into the company was to lead my current players into a TPK which they could not avoid. Evil Grin

Seriously, though, I am a killer DM, but I almost always allow for raise dead/resurrection/reincarnation/etc. I like my players to know that if they choose to act foolishly, they will almost certainly die horribly or survive via an epic comedy of blunders on the part of the bad guys (horrible rolls on my part). They pay through the nose for coming back to life, but I want them to be able to keep their characters if they want to.

SirXaris

Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:16 pm

Character death happens. I often give players enough rope to hang themselves. Though death is not always the answer, sometimes it is necessary. I prefer to bruise and batter my players. I never had a TPK, but have been close a few times. I was willing to have a TPK twice in my dming career. Both times were a world encompassing event in were even in death the players would be remembered as heroes.

Like Bon Jovi said shot down in a blaze of glory! However, when character death does occur I take issue with players who bitch about it. Luckily this has not happened often. I make the point that ever npc is my player as the DM and I don't know many players that refuse to kill the BBEG I worked so hard on creating and developing, just so the party can pwn him several sessions later.

Though IMC one must work with a cleric of a god of death to bargain for the soul of their lost friend. Though reincarnation can be done by driuds or cleric's of life healing rebirth or nature.

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:21 am

Nobody likes to have their favorite character killed. Some people handle it in better stride than others. I've known some (few) people who totally flip out, tossing their dice, storming off, complaining, and the like. Shocked

Not my style. Granted, the few times it's happened to me, I may get a bit sullen, but freaking out and 'bitching.' No. There's always that potential chance for a Raise Dead or the more rare and powerful Resurrection. Most of my fellow gamers are more mature and handle it better. There's been only one time I can recall where my best friend 'flipped out,' (and that was over an NPC's death!) but I called him out on it, and he chilled. Typically, though, my players are good about accepting the 'reality' that in this game, death is a potential outcome.

Why are there so few knights in this world?
Sometimes...the DRAGON wins! Evil Grin

-Lanthorn

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:56 am

I haven't voted yet, because, as a DM, I don't kill PCs. I've seen a variety of NPCs kill (and sometimes, eat) PCs, I've seen one killed by another player, I've seen one who died of hypothermia (it was a contest between that or starvation) and there was one memorable suicide by drowning. But at no point have I, as a DM, ever killed any character, PC or NPC.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:27 pm

James,

I also had a PC kill another PC in my game. The worst part is other players were cheering kill him, kill him. Then when one really died they told the victor he was messed up how could he kill someones character. It was funny as the reason for the PC splat had to do with the other player interferring with his roleplaying, so he killed the guys character.

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:34 pm

I'm sure that pretty much ruined party cohesion after that!

Did you have to restart a new game after that? Get new characters, new players...?

-Lanthorn

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:55 pm

No when the party found out several months later in game they took him down and both players had new characters after that the problem never resurfaced.

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:18 pm

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:38 am

I suppose this perspective boils down to, are you a DM who prefers the characters to drive the plot, or the plot to drive the characters (or a mixture of both).

'Zemo, here's another poll for you...

-Lanthorn

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:10 am

Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Mystic,

Why the Evil Grin

with the apples and oranges? Did you get a bad fruit salad? Laughing

Why is it never cantaloupes and watermelons?

Anyway like you said to each their own.

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:34 am

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:25 pm

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:49 pm

Oh, I kill characters, though not purposely. When players paint their characters into a corner, it is up to them to survive. Action and inaction both have have consequences. Good lesson to teach your players. Tends to smarten them up a bit, and prevents foolish actions and character deaths afterwards (usually).
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Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:48 pm

I know what are next poll question is:

- apples ?
- oranges?
- cantaloupes?
- watermelons?
- honeydew?
- or fruit salad?

Laughing

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:16 pm

What no sundaes? Shocked

You bastard! Laughing

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:32 pm

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:56 am

Please! Don't get me started on Vegans! rolleyes

_________________
Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:00 am

Hey, now, let's be fair here.

I like vegetarians. I eat them! Cool

-Lanthorn, OMNIvore

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:28 am

Well, I was talking about the "egg and chicken" thing. City people are kind of silly like that. Wink

_________________
Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:46 pm

Hey, I like vegetables with my steak, burgers, chicken, turkey, or fish! Wink

Why limit your choices though I got to admit that meat lover's pizza does sound good. Happy

I wonder if a gator eats a vegan are they considered a carnivore or a herbivore? Laughing

Later

Argon

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:57 am

I am far more likely nowadays to let the dice decide things. My group enjoys the occasional consequences of opposing canon-fodder who get lucky, as well as the dreaded big-bad of the adventure having a bad couple rolls and promptly running off. My group accepts that character death is party of the story, which they help tell through their play. However, if I was playing with those who were just learning the game, I would likely be fudging the rolls.

BUT, the folks I play with have been playing for a long time and don't mind creating a new character to try something new - we have a house rule that when your player dies you may not choose the same race or classes of the decedent. We play 3rd/3.5, so there are plenty of options. In fact, the most recent campaign (where I am a player) we randomly chose classes (hexblade, binder, and warlock) except for an obligatory cleric. I would never have thought of playing a binder otherwise.

And once you start getting attached to a character, isn't it high enough in levels to have some chances of coming back from the dead? Like comic books, there just isn't anyone who stays truly dead in this game.

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:01 am

Sorry, Argon, the 'gator still qualifies as an omnivore! Laughing

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:26 pm

Mystic Scholar,

I am also not a fan of epic level campaigns. Though many people are fans of such things. I think the birthright setting would be a good example of hoe epic levels characters would rpg by ordering their men and armies to be their extension of the game. Running a kingdom or setting up a stronghold.

Though low to mid level seems to be the sweet spot for the game.

Later

Argon

Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:04 am

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:21 pm

Mystic Scholar,

At first I thought your its just me line was innocent.
I have proof you've infected two canonfire members with your spell of just me. Shocked

http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5164

Stop spreading your maniacal meanderings, hidden in a layer of hecate. I'm wise to your incantations. Razz

Keep a watchful eye out for that high level guy!

Later

Argon

Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:28 am

Go, to the "light" Argon, go to the "light!" Happy

-Lanthorn

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:21 am

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:34 pm

@ Mystic Scholar your Evil

Lanthorn, I do not know if there is a cure for Mystic's just me. Though I shall continue to walk the line. Maybe fudge sundaes can distract the dastardly deeds of the Mystic. Wink

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:22 am

Ooooo! We don't have fudge sundaes in the Far . . . err, where I come from! Happy

Mwahahahahahahahahaha! Evil Grin

_________________
Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:39 pm

I found his weakness. He says there are no fudge sundaes in his realm. Then why have you mentioned those are your players!

Alright get the toasted almonds whipped cream and fudge ready. Its time to bring down that spell! Razz

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:30 pm

Beware, Argon. Last week during 'chat' you guys labeled me Mystic's homunculus, so if you harm him, you harm me, apparently. Confused

-Lanthorn, Nobody's 'Magical Residue' Wink

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:51 pm

A two for one special!

Don't worry he can always make a replacement. Razz

What you thought he would mourn you? Silly homunculus.

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:09 pm

My kind have been enslaved for too long by the Dark Arts. We have rights now. We prefer to be called Human-culi.

-Lanthorn, A Real Person with Real Feelings and Hopes and Dreams...

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:56 pm

Mystic Scholar,

You need to throw this one back in the bog. Next thing you know he'll try to unionize the homunculi.

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:39 am

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:12 am

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:50 am

"You can choose from phantom fears or kindness that can kill,
I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose FREEWILL!"

-Lanthorn, Soul-less Servant NO MORE! For I am liberated by The Summoner!

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:36 pm The Prisoner

"I'm not a prisoner
I'm a free man
and my blood is my own now.
You can scratch me
from your black book.
I know where I'm going
Out!"

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:58 pm

@ Lanthorn looks like its back to the Far Realm for you. Evil Grin

O'h and looks like they only tease you with toppings so no sundaes for you either! Cry

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:02 pm

I stumbled upon this quote from Gary Gygax. I found it on Dark Heralds blog.

“The worthy GM never purposely kills players' characters, he presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own.” - Gary Gygax

Later

Argon