Where do people stand with respect to the lich Azalin in the Greyhawk canon? Accordingly to the Ravenloft setting, he was Earl of Knurl, being born in 213 CY. The Ravenloft lore for Azalin had him developing Knurl into a large kingdom that seizes the Flinty Hills, the Adri Forest and Innspa, and being independent of the Great Kingdom. This does not seem to co-relate with my understanding of the timeline for this region.
Are we to ignore this? Or does it actually fit the canonical timeline and I am in error?
You're encouraged to ignore anything you dislike, but the history of the Great Kingdom is vague enough that there's nothing particularly contradictory about a rogue noble claiming independence from the Great Kingdom hundreds of years ago prior to his mysterious disappearance. After he vanished into the Adri Forest (which is also, interestingly, where the City of Summer Stars vanished into another realm after a terrible curse, and where the Rhennee emerged from another plane many centuries ago, indicating a long connection between the forest and some dark and shadowy domain of dread), the Overking appointed a more trusted noble and gained more control over the area.
I think most fans that are aware of the Ravenloft canon have incorporated Azalin into the Greyhawk timeline. If you think the idea of a noble temporarily declaring independence in the fourth century CY is outrageous, I seriously recommend you ignore it (and by the same token, please ignore everything that doesn't work for your particular game). If you think a vainglorious noble giving himself the spurious title of wizard-king hundreds of years ago, with the Overking mostly choosing to look the other way and eventually covering the matter up, isn't impossible, then you might decide that Azalin is an interesting addition to the Great Kingdom's storied history and another source of foul taint in the already mysterious Adri Forest.
Personally, I'm fine with this bit of canon, and I've played with the connection between Azalin, the Coldwood, and the Rhennee (and the strange things the Demiplane of Dread does to time) in this article.
Excellant article at the bottom (as usual) what I want to know there is a link to a detailed version of Sargent's work towards the bottom of the text that goes nowhere Any ideas on where I can get a opy of it as I would be interested in reading it.
Thanks for the reply, Rasgon -- lots of good points.
I guess my point wasn't expressed very well. The Azalin story seems to directly contradict Greyhawk canon.
From the LGG we know that in 108 CY an Aerdi army gathered at "the frontier town of Knurl" suggesting that Knurl was already part of the Great Kingdom. From there the army went on to defeat the northern Suel barbarians in 109 CY. For his services, the Overking appointed Caldni Vir the first marquis of the Bone March. Knurl is part of the Bone March, and would therefore be subject to the Marquis at Spinecastle.
HOWEVER, the Ravenloft novel King of the Dead states that sometime during the period 283 - 291 CY, Azalin as leader of Knurl swore allegiance to the Malachite Throne.
Does this mean that at some point between 109 CY and 283 - 291 CY Knurl became indpendent? What were the circumstances which resulted in the independence of Knurl? Given that this time period was a period of expansion for the Great Kingdom, even a "Golden Age" of sorts, it is unlikely that the Malachite Throne would allow an entire fiefdom to obtain indpendence.
King of the Dead also states that in 329 CY Azalin commences a conquest of the Teesar Valley, the Flinty Hills, the Blemu Hills and the Adri Forest, culminating in the conquest of Innspa. This suggests that most of the Bone March was seized by Knurlish forces. What was the Marquis doing during this revolt? Likewise, the territories of Nyrond and North Province would have been adversely affected and I believe that the Adri Forest was actually an Imperial reserve. Why is there no reference to what would have amounted to a Great Kingdom civil war?
Nyrond's own rebellion in 356 CY certainly attracted the Great Kingdom's attention.
Azalin's rebellion only ended in 391 CY when he fled into the Adri and disappeared from history.
The history of the Great Kingdom in this context is not particuarly vague.
Also, according yo the LGG, the land of the Bone March (including Knurl) is "cool, rocky farmland ... relatively poor and never supported a dense population". How did Azalin raise his armies and how did he pay for them?
I would be very interested to hear any ideas about how these discordant items can be successfully retconned.
Does this mean that at some point between 109 CY and 283 - 291 CY Knurl became indpendent?
No, it just meant that local rulers were expected to swear fealty to their sovereign. Firan Zal'honan (Azalin) swears fealty to the Malachite Throne (which wasn't called that yet, but whatever) in 283 CY (that's the exact year, according to From the Shadows) because his older brother, the previous Earl of Knurl, had died and swearing fealty was something new rulers were required to do in order for the Overking to recognize them as lawful rulers of their domains.
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Given that this time period was a period of expansion for the Great Kingdom, even a "Golden Age" of sorts
Quite the opposite. It was slam-bang in the middle of the Age of Great Sorrow, when the Great Kingdom was falling apart.
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What was the Marquis doing during this revolt?
Fending off zombies, probably. Also, there was a massive barbarian invasion (inspired by the first discovery of the Blades of Corusk) in 356 CY that overran Ratik and was only barely held off at Spinecastle. Everything got pretty messed up then. Azal'Lan definitely helped fight the barbarians during that struggle, but he may have been less affected than nobles elsewhere in the March. That, plus his considerable magical skills, might have left him the strongest local ruler.
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Why is there no reference to what would have amounted to a Great Kingdom civil war?
I guess that depends on whether or not you consider the various Ravenloft references (the novel King of the Dead and the module From the Shadows) to count.
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How did Azalin raise his armies and how did he pay for them?
Necromancy may have played a role; you don't have to feed undead armies, and you can convert enemy troops to your cause. Other soldiers and mercenaries may have flocked to his banner just because he was the strongest ruler in a region that had been recently devastated by war.
Last edited by rasgon on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
...HOWEVER, the Ravenloft novel King of the Dead states that sometime during the period 283 - 291 CY, Azalin as leader of Knurl swore allegiance to the Malachite Throne...
-Oh. Ravenloft. I can go back to sleep now.
Well, maybe I'll think about incorporating it some day if it gets big enough.
The Azalin story seems to directly contradict Greyhawk canon.
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Why is there no reference to what would have amounted to a Great Kingdom civil war?
Azalin's history fits perfectly into GH canon. Why have an Age of Great Sorrow if nothing happens? In an Age of fragmenting kingdoms, civil wars, and infighting; why ignore a canon goldmine like King of the Dead?
Knurl may seem too close to the Malachite Throne for Azalin to carve an empire, but think of all of the difficulty facing Rauxes' control of the region: raiding barbarians from the north, raiding humanoids from the mountains, willful gnomes in the Flinty Hills, and elves, druids, and outlaws in the Adri. The Bone March was doubtless a constant headache even at the height of the GK. A destabilized, lawless frontier like Knurl would be perfect for an insurrection.
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Also, according yo the LGG, the land of the Bone March (including Knurl) is "cool, rocky farmland ... relatively poor and never supported a dense population". How did Azalin raise his armies and how did he pay for them?
Note that Knurl is on the junction of two rivers, giving it more agriculture potential than anywhere else in the Bone March. Also, the Adri forest was significantly larger back then. According to Ivid the modern-day Adri "is perhaps but half the size it was when the Great Kingdom was founded." Someone had to chop down all of that wood. The southern Bone March may have even been forested. Finally, the nearby Flinty Hills are "well endowed with minerals" (Folio 22). Azalin had no shortage of resources.
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Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
Any ideas on where I can get a opy of it as I would be interested in reading it.
