Not sure if this belongs here or in the Heresy forum but here goes...
I mentioned some time back, in a long forgotten thread that was doubtless about something else, some plans I had for setting Pathfinder APs in GH and wondered if others had similar ideas. We have been starved of setting material for years and given that Paizo is run by some of the biggest game designer GH fans there are, I figured their products were too good (which they are IMO) to waste.
My thoughts so far revolve around Ratik and the Bone March mapping into Varisia for the most part with six APs potentially set there in three-arc campaigns. Firstly, a Ratik-based campaign which comprises the Rise of the Runelords AP, the Shattered Star AP and the Jade Regent AP. Marner is reskinned as a somewhat bigger old Aerdy outpost and is used as Magnimar for the APs.
Secondly, a Bone March based campaign combining the Second Darkness AP, the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP and the Kingmaker AP. The PCs are sent from Ratik to reclaim the lawless Bone March (Kingmaker) and along the way, they encounter trouble in Knurl (Curse of the Crimson Throne) and Dekspoint (as Riddleport in Second Darkness).
Has anyone considered something similar? Do these placements make some sort of sense?
Last edited by Flint on Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
...I mentioned some time back in a long forgotten thread that was doubtless about some plans I had for setting Pathfinder APs in GH and wondered if others had similar ideas. We have been starved of setting material for years and given that Paizo is run by some of the biggest game designer GH fans there are, I figured their products were too good (which they are IMO) to waste...
-I always convert stuff to whatever version of D&D I happen to be using at the time. I like moduels for the characterizatios are layouts; the other stuff is easy to convert.
Flint wrote:
...My thoughts so far revolve around Ratik and the Bone March mapping into Varisia for the most part with six APs potentially set there in three-arc campaigns. Firstly, a Ratik-based campaign which comprises the Rise of the Runelords AP, the Shattered Star AP and the Jade Regent AP. Marner is reskinned as a somewhat bigger old Aerdy outpost and is used as Magnimar for the APs.
Secondly, a Bone March based campaign combining the Second Darkness AP, the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP and the Kingmaker AP. The PCs are sent from Ratik to reclaim the lawless Bone March (Kingmaker) and along the way, they encounter trouble in Knurl (Curse of the Crimson Throne) and Dekspoint (as Riddleport in Second Darkness).
Has anyone considered something similar? Do these placements make some sort of sense?
-I DM Ratik scenarios (I have Quasqeton set in Kalmar Pass), and I down-lowded a lot of the Ratik/Bone March Living Greyhawk stuff, but I'm not familiar with those Paizo scenarios. But, FWIW, you don't have to "re-skin" Marner as an old Aerdy outpost. That's exactly what it is. Unless by "re-skin" you're referring ot the size of Marner, in which case, to each his own. But it is a decent sized town as is, and I use it the way you seem to intend.
Again, I don't know the scenarios, but I guess they would fit. A practical issue is getting from Ratik to Knurl through most of the Bone March. If they are relatively low level, what route would they take? If they a high level, they might be able to blast their way through (or fly, or teleport...).
We're currently running Skull and Shackles off the western coast of Hepmonaland. It works well there and makes for some interesting encounters between the Free Captains and ships from the Scarlet Brotherhood Navy.
-I DM Ratik scenarios (I have Quasqeton set in Kalmar Pass), and I down-lowded a lot of the Ratik/Bone March Living Greyhawk stuff, but I'm not familiar with those Paizo scenarios. But, FWIW, you don't have to "re-skin" Marner as an old Aerdy outpost. That's exactly what it is. Unless by "re-skin" you're referring ot the size of Marner, in which case, to each his own. But it is a decent sized town as is, and I use it the way you seem to intend.
Again, I don't know the scenarios, but I guess they would fit. A practical issue is getting from Ratik to Knurl through most of the Bone March. If they are relatively low level, what route would they take? If they a high level, they might be able to blast their way through (or fly, or teleport...).
Sorry, probably wasn't entirely clear about Marner. Appreciate it is a former Aerdy colony but until I started looking at these ideas, I had pictured it as a smaller, more rustic, northern town (and from what I've read of the LG stuff, the triad seemed to think something similar).
Magnimar in the APs is bigger and more civilised but to my mind that can work too. Ratik could, despite its break from Aerdy, be trying to maintain itself as a beacon of whatever it regards as the good things that Aerdy civilisation brought to its former empire. There could even be hints of decadence and perhaps a snobbery under the surface with the Ratikans viewing themselves as superior to the "barbaric" Fruzti, Schnai and Cruski to the north.
I've decided to combine Varisia with Aquaria/New Empyrea as the continent on the other side of the Solnor Ocean. The Cheliax are Oeridian descendents (a House close to Naelax) that brought devil worship across the pond) while other Houses settled Varisia. The native Varisians are simply a separate group of Attloi. _________________ Never say blip-blip to a kuo-tua
...Sorry, probably wasn't entirely clear about Marner. Appreciate it is a former Aerdy colony but until I started looking at these ideas, I had pictured it as a smaller, more rustic, northern town (and from what I've read of the LG stuff, the triad seemed to think something similar). Magnimar in the APs is bigger and more civilised but to my mind that can work too...
-Hmmm... This link seems to be dead, but this is what I downloaded from it a while ago wrt Marner ca. 591 (it's long. sorry):
"The egg-shaped City of Marner is cleaved by the River Marner into two unequal portions. The eastern portion, in addition to being smaller and the industrial section of the city, is the poorer quarter. The river enters the city from the northwest and continues in a easterly direction for about a quarter mile. At this point, it flows into the base of the eastern of two granite outcroppings that give Marner its third dimension, The Bastion. Swerving to the south, Marner River reaches the bay after traveling another half mile. Saw mills line the northern shore before the river reaches The Bastion. Most of the logs processed here have been "herded" down river from Abonhoth in the Timberway. The archbaron owns two of the mills, but the other three are held by commoners. The shanties of the poor occupy most of the rest of the land between the river and the northern section of the city wall: a double palisade of thick wooden posts reinforced at the base with stonework. The portion of the wall in the vicinity of the harbor is entirely of stone.
The harbor is located at the longer, southern side of the egg where the mouth of the river meets Grendep Bay. The harbor itself is well-suited for even the deepest draft vessels, but the approaches are guarded by the rocky scree deposited by some long-forgotten glacier. There are only three passages through the scree suitable for ocean-going vessels. These have been carefully targeted by the artillerists on The Bastion. The vast majority of the docks and wharves are located along the south-western shoreline: its rocky base serves well for the loading and unloading of cargo. With the exception of two piers owned by the archbaron and used for the loading of lumber, the eastern shore is unsuitable as the silt from the river tends to deposit itself along this shore as the river turns southward. The mud flats provide nesting areas for water fowl, chief among these the Marner cormorant and several types of gulls. Some of the poor have built houses on stilts in this area, especially where the river permits shallow craft to navigate.
Almost a hundred meters at its peak, The Bastion serves as the base for artillery defense of the city. Two companies of gnomes, from Nonizhold, (one of artillerists and the other of quartermasters) and a company [each of human archers and human spear men] are stationed on this promontory. The gnome artillerists operate the half dozen catapults and three ballistae situated on the summit. The archers protect The Bastion from aerial assault and the spear men are for close in protection against anyone capable of scaling the sides of the mesa or who get past the archers. The quartermasters include a fair number of illusionists, but their main responsibility is to make sure that there are adequate supplies of food stuffs, water, resin (for incendiary attacks), ballista bolts and catapult stones. As the sides of The Bastion are exceptionally steep, personnel and supplies are lifted to the top via specially constructed cranes. While the gnomes serve the archbaron directly, the human soldiers are sponsored by the guilds.
The western portion of the city is the commercial and social hub. The Heights, the western granite outcrop, rise gradually from the river, attaining their maximum height of 80 yards about a quarter mile from the docks. The arch baron’s castle encompasses the high ground, its ten foot thick stone walls forming a near perfect circle with a diameter of about 200 meters. Various noble families have established town residences in the area north of the castle between it and the edge of the bluff. To the east of the nobles houses, still high up the slope, are the upper crust of the commercial set. The markets are situated northeast of the docks at the base of the bluff. Professionals have tended to locate their offices higher up and close to the entrance to the castle. The vast bulk of the commercial class lives either above or beside their shops.
Numerous buildings have sprouted up outside the west wall of the city. These tend to be widely spaced and typically are small farms which provide the city’s meat and poultry. However, several craftsmen and merchants also have located here, as have several inns and the horse market. All of this land is owned by the archbaroness and leased to the tenants. Most of the land inside the walls remains in the archbaroness' ownership, but several of the guilds have obtained the fee in their land in return for past support of the archbaronial family and the defense of Ratik.
South of the Bastion lies the Foreign Quarter. Almost a separate city within the walls, this region is home to immigrants from around the Flanaess as well as independent Ratikans with less family ties within the greater city. This district has started to spread out onto reclaimed land beyond the eastern wall. The area beyond that reclaimed land remains almost entirely undeveloped as it tends to be swampy.
The most significant guilds in the city are the furriers (dealing in furs, usually from the Timberway), the gem-cutters, and those who work with the noble metals (silversmiths, goldsmiths, etc.). The sawyers have for years been trying to enter this clique, but as yet remain tolerated but not accepted. Other guilds include the restaurateurs, the tailors, the bakers and the leather workers. Recently, a guild of navigators has started up. The ship builders also are part of this guild. As might be expected, its guildhall is close to the docks. There is some question as to where the new guild will fit in the pantheon of Ratikan guilds: will it be lumped in with the trades or allowed status with the wealthier classes."
...it's not Rel Astra, but it's not Hommlet, either. Maybe it depends on your definition of "rustic." IIRC, The Adventure Begins mentions an expedtion which went from Marner to Fireland and back again. Again, they wouldn't have to be Rel Astra to pull that off, but still...
You should be fine if you just use adventures and characters set in Magnimar. Do you need (or want) the whole city?
Flint wrote:
...Magnimar in the APs is bigger and more civilised but to my mind that can work too. Ratik could, despite its break from Aerdy, be trying to maintain itself as a beacon of whatever it regards as the good things that Aerdy civilisation brought to its former empire. There could even be hints of decadence and perhaps a snobbery under the surface with the Ratikans viewing themselves as superior to the "barbaric" Fruzti, Schnai and Cruski to the north.
-That's how I see it. IMC right now (in CY 578) Ratik has these strains:
1) "Arthurian Briton vs. the Barbarians": The Houses, which are mostly Oeridian, see themselves as the successors of the empire in its prime, not the decadent monstrosity which abandoned them. The "empire" is Aerdy, the "barbarians" are the humanoids of the Bone March and until recently, the Cold Barbarians. I use the both the historical 5th-6th century Britain and the legenderay "King Arthur" meme;
2) I throw in a little bit of "Medieval Scotland/Northumbria" for some cultural flavor: "Volunteer Borderer" is a Gygaxian give-away; plus the proximity to the "vikings";
3) "Successful Military Underdog": Ratik is badly outnumbered, but constantly survived. I mostly think Israel 1948-1973 (Ratik instituted conscription for women before the Greyhawk Wars- I assume CY579) and Finland 1939-1945 (where it snows).
If you're doing the 590s, it might shift a little. When will your campaign be set?
Dukan wrote:
We're currently running Skull and Shackles off the western coast of Hepmonaland...
...and...
Gilban wrote:
I've decided to combine Varisia with Aquaria/New Empyrea as the continent on the other side of the Solnor Ocean...
Thanks, this is really useful. Had not come across it in the Ratik stuff I had yet. Love the themes you are weaving into your Ratik as well. These really makes sense in terms of how I see the country and since I'm intending to set these in the 579-580 period, it works very well.
As far the as the Bone March campaign goes, haven't bottomed out the logistics of travel yet but am thinking that the Ratik reclamation effort would begin in the north and that they would travel by sea to Dekspoint initially as some sort of diplomatic effort to enlist aid. Knurl is more difficult but clandestine river travel down the Teesar Torrent may be possible.
We're currently running Skull and Shackles off the western coast of Hepmonaland. It works well there and makes for some interesting encounters between the Free Captains and ships from the Scarlet Brotherhood Navy.
Dukan
Am in two minds about this one. Considering making the Lordship of the Isles more piratical and setting it there or combining it with the Savage Tide AP from Dungeon and setting it around the Sea Princes / Pirate Isles. Like the idea of throwing the Brotherhood into the mix. Can see how that would make things interesting.
...Thanks, this is really useful. Had not come across it in the Ratik stuff I had yet. Love the themes you are weaving into your Ratik as well. These really makes sense in terms of how I see the country and since I'm intending to set these in the 579-580 period, it works very well...
-I put the links for the LG Ratik triad stuff in the LG Ratik section, but most of the stuff is dead. I cut and pasted it a while ago, though, and have it. I sent an e-mail to ceb to see if it's kosher to put up.
I think I have Bone March stuff, too.
I just take the stuff from CY 591, then back date i.e., everyone is younger, lower level, etc, and characters who retired or died are still active.
The first Gord book has a lot of stuff on Knurl and Lady Evaleigh which takes place in late 578-579, FWIW.
...I was poking around the internet, and found this:
"...I figure the Human Ratikkers as Scots, but Lowlanders & Borderers, rather than Highlanders (except for a few Flann speakers in the mountains).
In terms of attitude, I see a combination of post-Roman Britain (with the Great Kingdom filling in for the Roman Empire, and the Humanoid Hordes filling in for the Saxons, Picts, and Irish), 50s-70s Israel (with the Humanoid Hordes filling in for the Arab Hordes), and 1919-1944 Finland (with North Province/Kingdom filling in for the USSR)..."
...now I have mentioned my ideas wrt Ratik before here. So, one of the three is going on:
Hey! This looks like my thread in the 3E/Pathfinder forum, which should have had a named more like this one.
I like Bone March as a Kingmaker location - definitely lawless, variety of landforms, frontier feel. You could add to it by dropping in more humanoid incursions a la Red Hand of Doom.
I haven't yet figured out where I would place Curse of the Crimson Throne; I've considered lower Amedio coast, Dullstrand area, others, but no solid pick yet.
I also plan to set the Shackles off western Hepmonaland and run that AP there. This middle ground could allow lots of interactions with whatever nations one places south of Amedio, not to mention farther down in Hepmonaland. As I said in my other post, I plan to fill in a lot of H-land with Paizo's books on Garund, particularly the Mwangi expanse.
And my favorite transfer is Ustalav into Urnst. Someday I'll write an article from my notes on this - interactions between the Whispering Tyrant and Vecna, for example...
This probably will get moved to the 3E/Pathfinder forum, if not the Heresy forum. Still . . .
It's all good. Whatever works for your game. Any AP or Module can be played in the World of Greyhawk, just choose the right setting and make a few minor adjustments.
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