While considering which classic villains I want to include in my GH campaign for 5th edition, it got me thinking...who is the single greatest Greyhawk villain of all time? I don't mean organizations or societies like the Scarlet Brotherhood, just an individual in published canon. Its certainly subject to opinion and there are a lot of nominees to choose from, but I'm curious to know what some of you think.
Here are some potential candidates:
Iuz - a great bad guy and is firmly rooted in GH history, but unfortunately suffers from being evil for evil's sake. He is hell-bent on conquering the Flanaess, but to what end? Even a power mad tyrant still needs motivation.
Eli Tomorast - Aside from his demonic hands, I found this guy to be pretty forgettable until Dungeon Magazine revamped Maure Castle ten years ago. He's still just a power-hungry demonologist, but his backstory and lust for revenge make him far more compelling.
Eclavdra - a product of a ruthless culture that weeds out the weak, Eclavdra is the embodiment of drow society: cold, calculating and driven to further her noble house, yet Eclavdra's political ambition is matched only by her traitorous nature. A classic "evil but flawed" villain.
Kargoth - a fallen paladin destroyed by his own ego and seduced by demonic power, Kargoth is to Greyhawk what Lord Soth is to Dragonlance - the sympathetic villain. Besides, death knights are friggin' cool.
Iggwilv - the ultimate witch of Greyhawk, Iggwilv is characterized as a political and sexual manipulator in both the Flanaess and the abyss. She is dyed-in-the-wool evil and cunning, but often her motives are unclear. Certainly Iggwilv is a narcissistic megolomaniac, but is that enough to be the greatest GH villain of all time?
Acererak - most terrifying GH villain of all time? Yes. Greatest GH villain of all time? No.
Tharizdun - see Acererak.
Vecna - Vecna is the consummate evil lich in GH and is definitely a contender for greatest GH villain. Evil undead wizard? Check. Driven by revenge? Check. Mortal ascended to godhood? Check. Despite his popularity, Vecna still carries a lot of mystique - which is difficult to maintain when there are numerous published sources out there. Case in point: the three ridiculous modules Vecna Lives!, Vecna Reborn, and Die, Vecna, Die!.
But my vote for Greatest GH Villain of All Time is:
Lolth - the Demon Queen of Spiders and salvation of the drow race, Lolth has all the trappings of a great villain. She is menacing, charismatic and driven to see her faithful succeed in destroying their enemies, including themselves when necessary. No act is too evil or perverse if it pleases her and serves the greater good (by her standards). Even long before the countless FR novels and source books came along, Lolth had well established herself as a truly memorable villain.
This is by no means an exhaustive list. Rary, Dragotha, Markessa, Kyuss, Warduke...the list goes on. I'd like to see what others think and please point out others I have not included.
Iuz - a great bad guy and is firmly rooted in GH history, but unfortunately suffers from being evil for evil's sake. He is hell-bent on conquering the Flanaess, but to what end? Even a power mad tyrant still needs motivation.
Mommy and daddy issues. He's spent his life in his parents' shadow and he's driven to prove himself as an individual, not as the son of Iggwilv and Graz'zt. He feels like he has to exceed his parents' accomplishments.
Basically, he's Alexander the Great. And Iggwilv is very much Olympias.
Mommy and daddy issues. He's spent his life in his parents' shadow and he's driven to prove himself as an individual, not as the son of Iggwilv and Graz'zt. He feels like he has to exceed his parents' accomplishments.
Good point and very true, although it feels like its reading between the lines a bit. Its never been stated that Iuz seeks to eclipse his parents and break from their yoke, at least from what I have read. Correct me if I'm wrong. But yeah, the way the three of them have flip-flopped back and forth using each other as a means to an end is definitely dysfunctional.
rasgon wrote:
Basically, he's Alexander the Great. And Iggwilv is very much Olympias.
Nice analogy, I've never heard of that comparison to Iggwilv before but it totally fits. Right down to the various aliases.
although it feels like its reading between the lines a bit. Its never been stated that Iuz seeks to eclipse his parents and break from their yoke, at least from what I have read.
"Those fools who sought neutral balance would never commit themselves in time to prevent Iuz's mantle of empire from covering all Oerth! Then, oh yes, then Iuz would show "Mighty Graz'zt," and others too, who was the true Lord of All!" - Gary Gygax, Artifact of Evil, page 95.
"Iuz, meanwhile, was thinking of the day to come when he would show his loving father the true worth of his offspring, and would do so in terms that left no uncertainty as to who was in shadow, who was in glory!" - Artifact of Evil, page 98.
Showing up Graz'zt is definitely at least part of his motivation.
Breaking free of Iggwilv is also important to him:
"Iuz groaned inwardly, cursing Iggwilv carefully in a corner of his mind that was well shielded from any possible prying by magic. Now, the cambion thought, I understand why Graz'zt imprisoned her in a dismal plane within the Abyss! Iggwilv, it was certain, would not settle for a role of silent helper in matters of state—or any other matters. In tandem with Zuggtmoy—and the two seemed to have become virtual sisters—they would never allow him his prerogatives, nor a moment's peace." - Artifact of Evil, page 331.
"Those fools who sought neutral balance would never commit themselves in time to prevent Iuz's mantle of empire from covering all Oerth! Then, oh yes, then Iuz would show "Mighty Graz'zt," and others too, who was the true Lord of All!" - Gary Gygax, Artifact of Evil, page 95.
"Iuz, meanwhile, was thinking of the day to come when he would show his loving father the true worth of his offspring, and would do so in terms that left no uncertainty as to who was in shadow, who was in glory!" - Artifact of Evil, page 98.
Showing up Graz'zt is definitely at least part of his motivation.
Breaking free of Iggwilv is also important to him:
"Iuz groaned inwardly, cursing Iggwilv carefully in a corner of his mind that was well shielded from any possible prying by magic. Now, the cambion thought, I understand why Graz'zt imprisoned her in a dismal plane within the Abyss! Iggwilv, it was certain, would not settle for a role of silent helper in matters of state—or any other matters. In tandem with Zuggtmoy—and the two seemed to have become virtual sisters—they would never allow him his prerogatives, nor a moment's peace." - Artifact of Evil, page 331.
Ah of course, the Gord the Rogue novels...forgot about them. Thanks Rasgon, you can always be counted on for retrieving exact information! I once started Saga of Old City but never got very far, I need to read that series some day...
Which means Iuz has more impetus for villainy than I originally posted. Coupled with his drive for revenge against Tenser, Bigby, Robilar and company, I'd say he is a pretty well-rounded bad guy and certainly a contender for the title. For me, Iuz has always been my personal favorite GH villain but I still think Lolth is the GGHVoAT.
By the way, is this to say Iuz is your choice? Just curious.
THAT would be the most terrifying villain of all time (even worse than Acererak or Tharizdun) D:
From the illustrious pages of Dragon Magazine #96:
KILLER DUNGEON MASTER (Dungeus Masterus Horribilis Maximus)
FREQUENCY: Not rare enough
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 10 (8 if unwashed)
MOVE: 12" (15" if pursued)
HIT DICE: Constantly
% IN LAIR: 100% (detailed below)
TREASURE TYPE: Special, see below
NO. OF ATTACKS ON CHARACTERS: Unlimited
DAMAGE/ATTACK ON CHARACTERS: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS ON PLAYERS: Mental stress and frustration
SPECIAL DEFENSES FROM PLAYERS: Immune to pleas of mercy
MAGIC RESISTANCE: None except to mind-affecting spells, which have nothing to affect (see INTELLIGENCE)
INTELLIGENCE: As if you couldn't guess
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic destructive
SIZE: M
PSIONIC ABILITY: Can a vacuum be psionic?
This mutant strain of Dungeon Master is found in poorly lit rooms, seated at some sort of card table (75%) or desk (25%) behind a flimsy cardboard screen covered with archaic lettering that he never reads. The table and adjacent areas are usually littered with books, notepads, empty soda cans, and miniature lead figures. The Killer Dungeon Master uses this lair to lure unsuspecting roleplaying gamers into the world of his warped imagination. Once seated at the table, the players are destined to lose at least one dearly beloved character apiece. It is a cruel fate, but unavoidable at this point.
(Article omitted for brevity. See Dragon Magazine #96, page 46 and 51 for full article).
Last edited by Luz on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
I am totally onboard with Eli Tomorast as my favorite villain especially given that he is one who has strong personal motivations and power that isn't some sort of god or political figure.
Think about it, Eli (and his rogue Seekers) are anti-adventurers. That must be why my players hated him so much. There was no existential take over the world plots, he just wanted all the same treasure and lore that the PCs are after!
Markessa was quite memorable IMC. Evil, no doubt. Unique with the whole weird surgery thing. I beefed her up with specialist abilities and such, and she was a bit of a boogyman for a while.
Lareth should definitely make the list. Anyone who remembers running into him at the end of the Moathouse knows how great a villain he was!
Zuggtmoy was mentioned in the earlier post, and she deserves her own spot. One of the first demons you could run into. Funghi attendants. Elemental Evil temple. Really, what more is there?
I am totally onboard with Eli Tomorast as my favorite villain especially given that he is one who has strong personal motivations and power that isn't some sort of god or political figure.
Agreed. I was trying not to include too many deity-types on the list (which was very difficult, there are several more). Eli Tomorast became a far more interesting and dastardly villain with the Maure Castle reboot.
mortellan wrote:
Think about it, Eli (and his rogue Seekers) are anti-adventurers. That must be why my players hated him so much. There was no existential take over the world plots, he just wanted all the same treasure and lore that the PCs are after!
The stakes are definitely more personal with him, which is what I like about it. This creates an interesting question: as far as "greatest villains" are concerned, are world-shattering aspirations a requirement? Or can their goals be much more provincial? Can a common thief resonate as strongly as an evil demigod? As it stands, many of the GH personalities I have mentioned are the world-conquering type, but I don't think Eli, Eclavdra or Kargoth fall into that category.
ragnar wrote:
Markessa was quite memorable IMC. Evil, no doubt. Unique with the whole weird surgery thing. I beefed her up with specialist abilities and such, and she was a bit of a boogyman for a while.
Lareth should definitely make the list. Anyone who remembers running into him at the end of the Moathouse knows how great a villain he was!
Yeah, I always liked Markessa more than any of the other slavelords. Icar was also cool, just not "greatest villain' material. And good call on Lareth, he definitely deserves mention.
ragnar wrote:
Zuggtmoy was mentioned in the earlier post, and she deserves her own spot. One of the first demons you could run into. Funghi attendants. Elemental Evil temple. Really, what more is there?
I thought about putting her on the list, but as much as I like her I could never take her seriously (despite her stats). I mean, just look at that picture of her in Temple of Elemental Evil. They could have included a illustration of her crone form but instead we got the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man's evil twin. Thankfully, later 3rd edition renderings vastly improved on this.
1. Lolth. She deserves the top spot because of how far she went in other settings such as the Forgotten Realms. She was invented here.
2. Iuz. There is no doubt this is the most iconic Greyhawk villain. He has a hand in everything like his father.
3. Korenth Zan. Second only to Iuz, this is the most powerful Greyhawk villain, particularly because of his political power and wealth. Known as the Father of Obedience, the secretive master of the Scarlet Brotherhood is always a factor.
4. Kargoth. The King of the Death Knights. Need I say more? He is like Lord Soth as a demigod, and his glowing green chariot is so cool!
5. Vecna. This is the villain who destroyed the Circle of the Eight. I like how he brings the ancient past of Greyhawk to life.
6. Zuggtymoy. The master of the Temple of Elemental Evil. What an original and alien monster! You can just see the humanoids worship her.
7. Acererak. Everyone has heard about the Tomb of Horrors, too, but only those who made it through there know how tough Acererak is.
8. Iggwilv. Iuz' mother is a pretty big villain. She shows that even though D&D has many wizards, a witch can be someone scary and novel.
9. Lareth the Beautiful. This infamous champion of elemental evil was one of the most memorable villains.
10. Tuerny the Merciless. This is one bad Nalfeshnee. He is the one who imprisoned Jallarzi of the Circle, and he gives her nightmares for life.
I guess that would be my list for the top ten. It excludes the original demon lords, archdevils, and Tiamat, but of course if you consider them all Greyhawk villains they should also be considered. To me, Greyhawk is the best setting to play them.
Interesting rendition, and definitely more demonic in aspect than the original, but not sure I really see the fungal context. In fact, I think the overall idea of a fungoid demon is really silly compared to something like the diseased and putrid Anthraxus. Now...THAT...truly repulsive and frightening!
Interesting rendition, and definitely more demonic in aspect than the original, but not sure I really see the fungal context. In fact, I think the overall idea of a fungoid demon is really silly compared to something like the diseased and putrid Anthraxus. Now...THAT...truly repulsive and frightening!
-Lanthorn
Maybe if you add a special attack of bad mescaline trips. ;)
Markessa was quite memorable IMC. Evil, no doubt. Unique with the whole weird surgery thing. I beefed her up with specialist abilities and such, and she was a bit of a boogyman for a while.
Lareth should definitely make the list. Anyone who remembers running into him at the end of the Moathouse knows how great a villain he was!
Markessa - Couldn't you just picture her and (real world) Josef Mengele becoming fast friends?
Lareth - Great potential to be a nemesis character, if he can escape the confrontation in the moathouse.
I want to throw in a vote for Overking Ivid and the House Naelex. Reading over the histories of how Naelex ascended to the Malachite Throne and the ruling of Aerdy after that makes for good drama. Additionally, it shows the tragedy of the triumph of evil and the decline of a once good nation.
The Overking really is not a villain that most PCs would face directly, his underlings would be more than enough. But I think that s what makes him a great villain, he is always behind the scenes, everyone knows of him, nobody can touch him.
Here on Canonfire, Cruelsummerlord did a great little article that made Ivid a little more deep as a character. Check it out!
I want to throw in a vote for Overking Ivid and the House Naelex. Reading over the histories of how Naelex ascended to the Malachite Throne and the ruling of Aerdy after that makes for good drama. Additionally, it shows the tragedy of the triumph of evil and the decline of a once good nation.
The Overking really is not a villain that most PCs would face directly, his underlings would be more than enough. But I think that s what makes him a great villain, he is always behind the scenes, everyone knows of him, nobody can touch him.
Here on Canonfire, Cruelsummerlord did a great little article that made Ivid a little more deep as a character. Check it out!
Thank you for the link. In my campaign, Ivid was cured of his madness and redeemed. The good that was in him was enough, if the corruption could be purged. The Great Kingdom stands reunified, and rededicated to its code of honor and law. The overking is trying to make amends with all those he and his predecessors wronged, and also make a secret alliance with other states to make war on Iuz and the horde of elemental evil which has grown larger than ever before.
When I think of villains, I don't immediately jump to the high-powered characters such as Iggwilv, Rary, or Iuz. I think the enemies that most PCs may encounter in various modules. I mean, how many ultra-high-level PCs do most of our players have? Most PCs won't meet these "Elminsters" of Greyhawk.
My mind goes to such foes (many of whom are already mentioned) as the following, in no particular order:
1) Lareth the Beautiful from The Village of Hommlet: When I was a beginning player back in the days of 1e (GASP!), this was one of the first modules my DM put my PCs through. Lareth, whom he made a male drow elf (it NEVER occurred to us that he'd be human, as many others have noted in other threads, given that he worships Lolth), was a truly terrible opponent for a group of 1st and 2nd lvl characters. Lareth is the reason why my half-elven ranger chose DROW as his species enemy.
2) The Slave Lords from the various A series of modules: I mean, c'mon, they are a great source of aggravation for a WHOLE Coast, after all, and are truly deadly for any group of adventurers. The Slave Lords continue to plague my current PCs, even if officially defeated (in theory, if not practice), as well as gave my player's paladin and battlemage several epic adventures. No doubt I will have fun resurrecting them after the Wars with their new additions...they remind me of a hydra.
3) Markessa: You can consider her part of the Slavers above, but on a lesser scale since her sphere of influence was confined to the stockade itself. However, what made Markessa so interesting was that she 'rescued' my elven and half-elven PCs when they were mistaken for brigands (they were, in fact, trying to defeat her 'employers' the Slave Lords!) and started nursing them back to health. Of course, she kicked my half-bloods aside as "human tainted" but took a fancy to my elven PC (fighter-mage), and oddly enough, him to HER. My DM crafted a really interesting background for her (victimized by a human when she was but an elven girl) and my elf PC began to empathize with her (he had a rough start, too, though NOTHING on par with her), and a ROMANCE started. Long story short: Markessa was slain during the rescue effort to save my PCs (who had to somehow masquerade as brigands so as not to get killed), and my elf PC still has not fully considered her 'the enemy' but a victim to be pitied. To everyone else, though, she was nothing less but a savage racist.
4) Icar: mentioned by somebody else, and definitely gave my PC's paladin quite the run for his money. It became a point of honor for this Heironean to defeat Icar toe-to-toe, straight up...he'd have been slain by the blind swordsman if not for the interference of his friends.
5) Explictica Defilus: Surprised nobody mentioned this sinister spirit naga from the Cult of the Reptile God module. I think this was the inspiration for the spirit naga that would follow over a decade later in the Falcon series. Explictica was a cunning and deadly foe. Without Ramne's help, everyone would perish.
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Sorry, my bad. Thanks for withholding the Purple Lightning. 
Completely agree about the picture found in ToEE.
