I'm adapting a parenthetical note from another post of mine to start this thread.
Many people consider the population figures in the 1983 box to be quite small. I am one of these people.
But of course if one cares about "realistic" human population figures, one should also allow room for all the large predators, the many herbivores those predators om nom nom on, the numerous sorts of intelligent monsters, and so on. Humans share the world with a lot of other large, intelligent and/or dangerous, critters in D&D.
Further, I note that lawless men, tribal peoples, independent villages, wilderness folk, borderers, and such weren't counted. Guide page 18.
It may be be that Gygax was describing a world with an indeterminate but implied to be large number of people not owing fealty or paying taxes to any of the established states. Indeed, it seems to me he left plenty of room for adding pocket kingdoms, petty baronies, free cities, and so on onto those whopping big maps.
I feel compelled to note this dude's blog, as he touches on similar points and has smart stuff to say about the matter:
Wow, I'm sure I read that Hill Cantons post, but not sure ~when~?? Within 6 weeks of it, I wrote something mirroring it almost point for point! Not sure if I subconsciously plagiarized?!? I hope not... I thought I was being original.
Regardless, I've felt this for a long time: scale is kinda messed up, or at least easily misinterpreted, in Greyhawk. If we accept the distance and population literally, it enables us to do ~anything~.... But, my impression is some folks unknowingly "lock themselves in" with firmly established country boundaries. The outcome is they feel they must send players halfway across the Flanaess just to find a chink in the armor of civilization... at least that's what happened to me when I first DM'ed GH...
It takes a small mental adjustment to break the stranglehold... do the math on the distances and populations; hardly *any* hexes are safe and civilized... what you *thought* were established Kingdoms spanning huge areas are actually tenuous lines of power and communication. The world is open for ~anything~....
Wow, I'm sure I read that Hill Cantons post, but not sure ~when~?? Within 6 weeks of it, I wrote something mirroring it almost point for point! Not sure if I subconsciously plagiarized?!? I hope not... I thought I was being original.
Regardless, I've felt this for a long time: scale is kinda messed up, or at least easily misinterpreted, in Greyhawk. If we accept the distance and population literally, it enables us to do ~anything~.... But, my impression is some folks unknowingly "lock themselves in" with firmly established country boundaries. The outcome is they feel they must send players halfway across the Flanaess just to find a chink in the armor of civilization... at least that's what happened to me when I first DM'ed GH...
It takes a small mental adjustment to break the stranglehold... do the math on the distances and populations; hardly *any* hexes are safe and civilized... what you *thought* were established Kingdoms spanning huge areas are actually tenuous lines of power and communication. The world is open for ~anything~....
Yep.
I plan on using Luxor and Karmagia on the Wild Coast, two petty states described (if only briefly) in a Dragon Magazine article.
But more than that, there will be numerous free holds, tribal territories, independent or semi-independent towns, petty principalities, and so on peppering my GH maps.
Add them as needed.
If we accept the distance and population literally, it enables us to do ~anything~.... But, my impression is some folks unknowingly "lock themselves in" with firmly established country boundaries. The outcome is they feel they must send players halfway across the Flanaess just to find a chink in the armor of civilization... at least that's what happened to me when I first DM'ed GH...
It takes a small mental adjustment to break the stranglehold... do the math on the distances and populations; hardly *any* hexes are safe and civilized... what you *thought* were established Kingdoms spanning huge areas are actually tenuous lines of power and communication. The world is open for ~anything~....
I like this and apply the same principles to the Flanaess' history and religion; beyond what is written are thousands of years of wars, plagues, alliances, betrayals, famines, gods, saints, cults, etc ... that were just as significant as what is written, all you have to do is fill in the gaps.
EDIT: Plus the stuff I just outright heretically change or cast aside.
Agreed. That's always been one of the great things about Greyhawk for me. You can literally use almost anything and find a place for it in the setting. My default position on published content has always been that if it's not specifically for another setting then it's Greyhawk. I'm also now using Paizo products to fill in blanks in background, geography, history and, to a lesser extent, mythology.
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