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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 228
From: Gulf Breeze, Florida
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Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:00 pm
No Manual of the Planes for 2nd edition?
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I have been thinking about something for a while and wanted to see what the group thinks, or if anyone knows the official answer. Why was the Manual of the Planes not updated for 2nd edition? When 2nd edition came out in 1989 the rules were updated and new core rule books were published, but no updated Manual of the Planes. Adventures in the Inner and Outer Planes continued to be a staple in 2nd edition so I don't know why a new rulebook didn't come with the edition. I know Planescape came out during 2nd edition so that may be the reason, although it didn't show up in 1989.
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GreySage
Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2470
From: SW WA state (Highvale)
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Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:42 pm
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Very good question, and one that I am interested to hear answered, too. I have not run many planar adventures, but am 'soon' about to change that, and consider the 1e Manual of the Planes to be a good book. But a 2e variant would be better. 
-Lanthorn
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Feb 12, 2014
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From: Maryland, USA
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:37 am
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The descriptions of the planes in the Manual of the Planes are virtually identical to the descriptions of the planes in Planescape. Essentially, Planescape IS the updated Manual of the Planes.
Jeff
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GreySage
Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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From: SW WA state (Highvale)
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:29 am
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How, then, are the two books different?
-Lanthorn
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Feb 12, 2014
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From: Maryland, USA
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:33 am
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The addition of Sigil is one of the primary differences, although the Outlands/Concordant Opposition operates the same (the Spire, the rings of increasingly reduced magical ability, etc.). The primary difference in Manual of the Planes is the couple pages on Alternate Prime Material Planes, which were removed and replaced with the Crystal Spheres of Spelljammer.
Jeff
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 228
From: Gulf Breeze, Florida
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:59 pm
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| AuldDragon wrote: |
The addition of Sigil is one of the primary differences, although the Outlands/Concordant Opposition operates the same (the Spire, the rings of increasingly reduced magical ability, etc.). The primary difference in Manual of the Planes is the couple pages on Alternate Prime Material Planes, which were removed and replaced with the Crystal Spheres of Spelljammer.
Jeff |
I admit I was never a fan of Planescape, at least the way it was drawn up. I really enjoy adventures in the planes, both as a PC and as DM, but I didn't like the general atmosphere of Planescape. Part of it was the "steam-punk" vibe, but it was also the overall game design. I also didn't like how it opened up play for even low level PCs. I just don't think adventures in the planes are meant for very low level PCs, except in special circumstances. I also thought it was weird to add actual towns in the Nine Hells and in the Abyss. I think most places in the Outer Planes should be exceptional and unique places filled with powerful creatures so putting a town with trade centers and inns, etc. was weird to me. As far as Planescape taking the place of a new Manual of the Planes, I think you're right AuldDragon. I didn't have a huge problem with there being a place like Sigil, I just thought they made it too much of a city similar to ones on the Prime.
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Black Hand of Oblivion
Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3836
From: So. Cal
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Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:23 am
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I never used the Sigil concept, but I did (and sometimes still do) use much of the background and rules from the various Planescape planar source books. Those are the real cross-campaign, cross-edition (1E and 2E mostly) gems in my opinion. Said source books don't answer every question (just check a Lanthorn thread here and there  ), but they do answer most of them, and provide a good deal more information than the 1E Manual of the Planes does (if you even want more detail that is).
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Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GreySage
Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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From: SW WA state (Highvale)
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Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:17 am
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Thanks for answering my question, fellows...and the honorable mention, Ceb!  Maybe I will peruse the next copy of Planescape, should I stumble upon one. For now I am pretty happy with the Manual, although there are some things that still have me baffled, so don't be surprised (in fact, expect!) if I post a question, or more, about it.
-Lanthorn
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:48 pm
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I never before knew a "GreySage" -- nor any color Sage -- that had as many questions as my buddy . . . Lanthorn!
But what I really want to know is; How much is he paying you guys?
According to the 2nd Edition DMG, page 232, a Sage can charge as much as 1,000 gold pieces a day for their expertise!
Any of you guys receiving any gold?
Just asking! 
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
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From: Gulf Breeze, Florida
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Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:49 pm
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No gold yet, but I have a tab running for Lanthorn. I imagine he (and others) have one running for my numerous questions answered too.
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Black Hand of Oblivion
Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:14 pm
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It is a two-sided service. One side provides questions, while the other side provides answers. Without one, the other is useless. 
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Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:35 am
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My friend Cebrion . . . ever the pragmatist.
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Oct 16, 2015
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Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:35 am
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If Planescape books are not available, I have experience that AD&D 1st edition Manual of the Planes is very compatible to AD&D 2nd edition. I have used it with no conversion effort.
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Paz y luz,
Lupe
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GreySage
Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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From: SW WA state (Highvale)
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Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:36 am
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I personally have never seen "Planescape," so cannot give my opinion as to its usefulness, but I'd agree that "Manual of the Planes" is very useful.
Maybe, though, I should see if I can't get my grubby paws on the other source guide, too...unless everyone thinks it is not worth the trouble and cost.
-Lanthorn
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