Which Greyhawk deities can get married, which can get divorced, and which can perform marriage ceremonies? Maybe some deities would require their clerics to get married (although I can't think of any in canon); or perhaps get married to attain a certain rank?
Just for starters, the Dragon #88 article on Fortubo mentions that clerics are often married couples.
The Adventure Begins mentions that the high priestess of St. Cuthbert has been divorced four times, implying that not only can clerics of St. Cuthbert get married, they can be divorced.
As a general rule, fertility deities should be able to perform marraiages (Beory, Pelor, Yondolla, Ehlonna, Atroa, Berei, Sheela Peryroyl, Merrika), and should be able to get married themselves, but that's not a hard and fast rule: IRL, Cybil's preists were castrati (ouch). Probably: Obad-Hai; Rillifane Rallathil; Sotillon? Maybe Bralm, Phyton, or Wenta?
Deities with a domesticity bent would perform marriages, too: Moradin; Berronar; Cyrrollale; Stern Alia.
Love and Romance deities: Hanali Celani, Myhrris. Possibly Wee Jas and/or Norebo? Phyton might fall in here, too. I seem to remember reading a theory that the priest of the Dweomer Forest (IVO Restenford) was married to one of the female clerics, but that might have just been supposition on someone's part.
Lawful deities with a community bent: Rao; Pholtus; Al Akbar (or is that Al Rabaq? )? According to TAB, Greyhawk oligarch Torrentz Hebvard is married to a cleric of Zilchus. It strikes me that Pholtians would be celibate, but according to TAB, Tigran Geller married a cleric of Pholtus, so so much for that theory.
In the ancient Mediterranean world, the Vestal Virgins were famously chaste, and Artemis's priestesses were sometimes (but not always) chaste. Pausanias's Description of Greece, translated by J.G. Frazer, mentions how the priesthood of Artemis Hymnia near Mantinea was held formerly by a young virgin, and later by a woman no longer a maid, and that the priestess of Earth was required to be chaste for the duration of her office and previously can not have known more than one man. The priests of Attis were supposedly eunuchs. E.J. Kinney's preface to Ovid's Heroides has some stuff to say about the priestesses of Artemis and Aphrodite:
Quote:
Resolute chastity is fitting for a priestess of the virgin Artemis; whether priestesses of Aphrodite were expected to be chaste, or Musaeus thought they were, is an interesting question but for the moment irrelevant. His concern was evidently to create, embellish, or exploit a paradox: a priestess of the goddess of love wedded to celibacy and so affording the opportunity for a display of perversely ingenious eloquence on the part of her suitor.
Berei is a fairly good analogy for Vesta/Hestia, though since Berei is also essentially Demeter, I wouldn't make most of her priestly orders chaste. Perhaps just one order guarding the eternal flame in a single temple in a single city (perhaps Rauxes?). Ehlonna is much like Artemis. Myrhiss is the goddess of love, and it's unlikely that a virgin priestess of Myrhiss is anything other than an eccentric anomaly. I think of Zodal as possibly being a good analog for Attis, though your mileage may vary. Obad-hai might fit better. Earth/Gaea is most like Beory, but I definitely wouldn't make chastity common among Beory's priestesses.
Atroa is another goddess who might have an order of virginal priestesses. Please note that even if chastity is observed by one order or temple, the same god may have orders who do not observe chastity. It may simply be a voluntary way to show their faith. As an analogy, Catholicism doesn't teach that Orthodox priests are sinning when they marry; they simply don't do things the way Catholics do, but both honor the same God in their way.
Chastity among Catholic priests isn't necessarily mandatory, and it's likely the same is true for priests of Pholtus or perhaps St. Cuthbert. A priest or priestess of Pholtus who was married before entering the priesthood, or if they converted from another god or order that permitted married priests, wouldn't be forced to divorce, for example.
Marriage and priests of Zilchus! I think there could be a lot of fun, and a decent adventure, arising out the negotiations and prenup agreement for a marriage involving a priest of Zilchus.
Marriage and priests of Zilchus! I think there could be a lot of fun, and a decent adventure, arising out the negotiations and prenup agreement for a marriage involving a priest of Zilchus.
I think the Priest's Handbook says that priests of death and disease/plague have to remain celibate so you could argue that priests of Nerull and Incabulous should as well.
I think the Priest's Handbook says that priests of death and disease/plague have to remain celibate so you could argue that priests of Nerull and Incabulous should as well.
Well, I can't help but think for them, the celibacy may be less a matter of their faith, but their faith's reputation and known area of interest.
18 Charisma or not, a priestess of Incabulous is still a priestess of Incabulous. And as the bards sing about them:
Mother told me, yeah she told me, I'd meet girls like you!
She also told me stay away, you never know what you'll catch!
[quote="BlueWitch18 Charisma or not, a priestess of Incabulous is still a priestess of Incabulous. And as the bards sing about them:
Mother told me, yeah she told me, I'd meet girls like you!
She also told me stay away, you never know what you'll catch! [/quote]
Maybe they sing "The House of the Rising Sun" as part of their religious hymns!
-One of the practical issues during the Middle Ages was the prevention of simony.
rasgon wrote:
...and it's likely the same is true for priests of Pholtus or perhaps St. Cuthbert. A priest or priestess of Pholtus who was married before entering the priesthood, or if they converted from another god or order that permitted married priests, wouldn't be forced to divorce, for example.
-The case Tigran Geller's marriage to a Pholtian priestess didn't exactly explain the circumstances, but earlier material didn't mention Geller being married (he definitely came of as a bachelor to me), so he would have had to have married her in the late 580s. I guess it's possible that he married her, and THEN she became a priestess, but I'm betting not. Is there any detail in canon or semi-canon on his wife?
A-Baneful-Backfire wrote:
Marriage and priests of Zilchus! I think there could be a lot of fun, and a decent adventure, arising out the negotiations and prenup agreement for a marriage involving a priest of Zilchus.
-Probably true of any marriage...
BlueWitch wrote:
...Well, I can't help but think for them, the celibacy may be less a matter of their faith, but their faith's reputation and known area of interest...
Q: What do preistesses of Incabulous use for birth control?
A: Their personalities.
Lanthorn wrote:
...Maybe they sing "The House of the Rising Sun" as part of their religious hymns!
...too much warning and regret in HotRS; it sounds more like a Cuthbertine singing about a Temple of Olidamara. (I once thought of making an inn based on the concept).
How about "Penicillin Penny"?
Wow. This thread went down the tubes, fast.
Any thoughts on who would perform marriages? Definitely St. Cuthbert, Pholtus, Pelor, or any "love" or "community" deity.
According to Greyhawk Adventures on page 49, Guiliana Mortidus is the product of an evil fighter mother and evil cleric father. As she hails from the Horned Lands, likely her dad is a priest of Nerull. Thusly, it seems plausible that Nerull does not expect chastity among his faithful. Just because a Power's portfolio preaches a code of Evil does not necessarily mean they embrace chastity. After all, what better way to spread the word of the faithful than to indoctrinate the next generation from their very own parents. We see that sort of thing in this very day and age. Hate, racism, violence, abuse, and the like are taught and learned all the time
...Please note that even if chastity is observed by one order or temple, the same god may have orders who do not observe chastity....
-Nice distinction.
Especially in the case of gods like Wee Jas. I can see orders that represent her death aspect being celibate, while those that represent her love aspect being decidedly not.
According to Greyhawk Adventures on page 49, Guiliana Mortidus is the product of an evil fighter mother and evil cleric father...
-Nice catch. I remember her quite well, but I forgot her parents.
Lanthorn wrote:
...As she hails from the Horned Lands, likely her dad is a priest of Nerull. Thusly, it seems plausible that Nerull does not expect chastity among his faithful...
-IRL, TSR's description for the Horned Society seems to have shifted from "devil worshippers" to Nerull. I assume that retrospective canon, that Nerull worshippers were always there, but gained numbers over time. I don't GA specified Guiliana's deity (I'm not at home), but in later works she was narrowed down to a priestess of Nerull. But her dad could have been a devil or daemon worshipper; which one could be anyone's guess. Maybe he changed during his lifetime, mirroring the power shift. But making her dad a Nerull worshipper is reasonable (in most campaigns, it probably doesn't matter much unless you're building a scenario based on her back story).
Lanthorn wrote:
...Just because a Power's portfolio preaches a code of Evil does not necessarily mean they embrace chastity...
-Or (hee hee hee) vice versa, or contrarily.
But I don't think a death-orientented cleric would perform marriages. I also don't see it for Hextor, Heironeous, Kord, or "military-orientented" deities either, although it wouldn't prohibit them from getting married. But the semi-canonical Bastion of Faith doesn't seem to have either clerics of either Heironeous or Hextor getting married. However, that could be because it details a monastery rather than the entire priesthood. At first, I don't see clerics of Wee Jas performing marriages, but it could fall under the purview of "Law."
You are correct that original products, primarily the first boxed set, denoted that the Horned Lands were ruled by devil-worshipping clerics (the Hierarchs themselves) without actually naming what specific devils. I read somewhere (AOL chatlines?) that the structure of the Hierarch clerics was that each clergy represented a different Plane of Evil (Tarterus, Gehenna, Nine Hells, etc.).
In later products, Nerull was listed as the primary Power for the Hierarchs.
Greyhawk Adventures does not specify Guiliana's patron Power. However, she is listed as becoming a Hierarch herself, with assistance, in "The Adventure Begins" and serving Nerull.
I will have to review Bastion of Faith about your other points regarding the clergy of Heironeous and Hextor.
And doesn't it mention in The Adventure Begins that St Cuthbert high priestess Eritai Kaan-Ipzirel of Greyhawk City has been divorced something like 5 times?
I like Rasgon's Classical approach to this. Celibate and chaste huntresses of Ehlonna look good to me.
Local cults can differ from common patterns.
I think celibate Hextorians and Heironean priests could be fun. Neither power is married, so far as I know. And no children? So maybe their priests remain celibate as a way to honor their patrons. (Hextorians might not care about chastity. Maybe they never acknowledge bastards. )
But as James suggests, maybe Bastion includes no married priests because it is centered on a monastic house.
I imagine most clerics of most gods can marry and have children, although that will vary by cult and local traditions.
And doesn't it mention in The Adventure Begins that St Cuthbert high priestess Eritai Kaan-Ipzirel of Greyhawk City has been divorced something like 5 times?
-Lanthorn
I don't have that one.
But I do like this idea, because it serves as one more little reminder that Oerth Saint Cuthbert is not the real Saint Cuthbert.
Saint Cuthbert (Oerth) as I see him is a philosopher with a club.His cult is not focused on salvation, but centers on enlightenment.
"Enlightenment can penetrate even the helm of iron."
Imagine Plato decides to start using his wrestling chops to ground and pound opponents into submission. He stamps around the ring before the fight, employing agora-tastic rhetoric and a side of Socratic Method to whip up the crowd and rag on his rivals.
And then Iuz brings a steel chair...
On wrestling related subjects, I am pretty sure Kord priests would be free to marry (or not) and beget kids.
And doesn't it mention in The Adventure Begins that St Cuthbert high priestess Eritai Kaan-Ipzirel of Greyhawk City has been divorced something like 5 times?
-Lanthorn
In the original post, I said TAB put it at 4 divorces, but I think that was actually from the GH City Box set. TAB puts it at five, so between 582 and 591, she must have done it again.
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)? According to TAB, Greyhawk oligarch Torrentz Hebvard is married to a cleric of Zilchus. It strikes me that Pholtians would be celibate, but according to TAB, Tigran Geller married a cleric of Pholtus, so so much for that theory.
