Anna Meyer at the Flanaess Geographical Society wrote:
As a former pilot, being interested in weather to the point of obsession is a fact of life :) So this is something to dig deeper into. Can someone please make an article about the "Climate of the Flanaess". Assemble the knowledge available and extrapolate. Then I'll add the maps with arrow, color overlays etc :)
Is anyone here a weather expert? _________________ David 'Big Mac' Shepheard<br />My Greyhawk links: http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9355<br />(If I am not here, you can find me at the Greyhawk or Chainmail forums at The Piazza.)<br />
There are already a couple of climate experts interested, and I've been pointed at a couple of sources. But I figured that people over here might know of other stuff. _________________ David 'Big Mac' Shepheard<br />My Greyhawk links: http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9355<br />(If I am not here, you can find me at the Greyhawk or Chainmail forums at The Piazza.)<br />
Does anyone have anything on ocean currents (direction, speed, temperature)? I thought there used to be something out there, but I have no idea where anymore.
I believe there is some information on the source guide called "The Adventure Begins" and maybe from "The Slavers" as well. Otherwise, you will have to kitbash from a variety of sources, but nothing expansive comes to mind.
Does anyone have anything on ocean currents (direction, speed, temperature)? I thought there used to be something out there, but I have no idea where anymore.
Also, some (or all) of Anna's maps might have ocean currents on them, as it was discussed at one time. I'm not sure if ocean current layers made the final cut though. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Does anyone have anything on ocean currents (direction, speed, temperature)? I thought there used to be something out there, but I have no idea where anymore.
Hi, there were/are 2 old maps that depicted some current. I still have a copy but I don't know who did them.
Since I am lurker here most of the time, I am, not sure how to post them or if it is advisable...
If the maps are fan-made, you can post images/links. If the maps are from a published source, just list the name of the source and which page the maps are on. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
"A huge clockwise current sweeps up the coast of the eastern Flanaess, carrying ships from the Thillonrian Peninsula out to sea, and bringing curious debris (doubtless from whatever land is on the Solnor’s far side) to the shores of Hepmonaland and the Lordship of the Isles. The wind direction is primarily from east to west, but a mild counterclockwise trade wind seems to exist in the northern Solnor, against the current."
That's the sort of thing I'm looking for.
Cebrion wrote:
...Also, some (or all) of Anna's maps might have ocean currents on them, as it was discussed at one time. I'm not sure if ocean current layers made the final cut though.
-Anna's maps have trade routes, but not currents, or temperature. As you point out, trade routes sometimes follow currents, particulalry for oceanic voyages, but in some cases, that's not true. The sources frequently mention wind direction, but the correlation with current direction isn't 1:1.
I seem to remember coloring in the map in the Folio with little arrows showing direction and temp, but I no longer have it and I'm not sure what my source was anyway; I may have just made them up.
I'd like to know, not just for calculating coastal and ocean temperatures, but because the places where warm and cold currents meet is supposed to be good fisheries. Of colurse, I could find the best fisheries, and deduce a meeting of currents there, but there isn't much detail on that, either, I think.
"A huge clockwise current sweeps up the coast of the eastern Flanaess, carrying ships from the Thillonrian Peninsula out to sea, and bringing curious debris (doubtless from whatever land is on the Solnor’s far side) to the shores of Hepmonaland and the Lordship of the Isles. The wind direction is primarily from east to west, but a mild counterclockwise trade wind seems to exist in the northern Solnor, against the current."
I note that the World of Greyhawk is a fantasy realm, so real-world science doesn't always apply. However, I want to point out how the above description differs from what would happen in reality so you will know to have a magical/divine explanation available if it becomes necessary.
First, the current in the Northern Atlantic generally flows clockwise as the Solnor's current does. However, that is because the prevailing winds across the Northern Atlantic travel west to east above the 30th parallel (up to the 60th) and east to west below it (to the equator). Thus, the winds push the current in the same direction as they travel.
The description of the Solnor's winds traveling east to west is against the flow of the current. This does not allow for a ready scientific explanation.
Next, the real-world current in the Atlantic ocean south of the equator is opposite to that in the northern half (the currents travel counter-clockwise). Likewise, the prevailing winds travel in a mirrored direction.
The description of the Solnor's currents seems to say that there is a single, main current traveling clock-wise through the entire Solnor Ocean. (No mention I'm aware of describing the prevailing winds at other lattitudes.)
Third, this statement confuses me a bit:
"... a mild counterclockwise trade wind seems to exist in the northern Solnor, against the current."
This can't be referring to the real-world equivalent of the prevailing winds above the 60th parallel because it would be travelling with the current at that point. It seems to be saying that there is a spiral air current that exists within the prevailing winds - sort of like a hurricane pictured on the news within the Caribbean Sea (except that it spirals counter-clockwise instead of clockwise). This could only be explained via magic.
So, be prepared if any of your players begin asking those questions. You can always blame it on Zagyg, or Loki.
Rather than starting a new thread I figured it made more sense to resurrect this one.
Has anyone managed to come up with a simplified interpretation of prevailing winds and currents that makes sense of the seemingly contradictory mish-mash of canon, natural laws and perhaps tempered by the caveat of magic to make it all work? I feel that getting a grip on this is crucial for determining a whole bunch of other stuff.
I'm not particularly knowledgable about this subject so I'm hoping there are some more adept minds than mine out there on this topic.
For ease these are the references I've found so far in this thread and other sources (Primarily the Player's Guide to Greyhawk);
Greyhawk / Nyr Dyv Region –
*Subject to storms from the east.
*Fall to Winter/Spring S / SW prevailing winds, Spring to Summer westerlies.
Safeton Physic – Goodmonth & Harvester, a warm SE wind generating over the Woolly Bay & gusting from noon time to late night up the Wild Coast (60 miles south of Safeton) to the mouth of the Selintan. (sea breezes like this don't usually manifest at night implying magic)
Drawmij Ocean - warm currents sweep from the west past Zeif & Ekbir and turn northwards. Prone to fog and errant icebergs.
Solnor Ocean"A huge clockwise current sweeps up the coast of the eastern Flanaess, carrying ships from the Thillonrian Peninsula out to sea, and bringing curious debris (doubtless from whatever land is on the Solnor’s far side) to the shores of Hepmonaland and the Lordship of the Isles. The wind direction is primarily from east to west, but a mild counterclockwise trade wind seems to exist in the northern Solnor, against the current." (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, pages 149-150)
Atroa's Breath/Laugh – spring/summer tradewind which blows from the E / SE
Telchur's Breath – winter/autumn tradewind which blows from the N / NE
SW Tropics - Hurricanes blow from SW, except around Hepmonaland where they come directly from W or SW. [/i]
The topic of climate is still coming up in a few different threads so I tried my hand at a few maps to attempt to make sense of all the various information. I am definitely not a climatologist so these are just an amatuer's muddled attempt and pointers from those in the know is welcome. If the images are too large let me know.
Prevailing Winds -
There is a lot of conflicting source material about winds directions. For sanity's sake I looked to the earliest canon source as a starting point...
“Prevailing winds on the Flanaess come from the north and northeast during the fall and winter seasons, and from the east and southeast during the remainder of the year. This is generally true, but geographical phenomena, such as mountains will affect wind direction.“ (WoG – Glossography, p22)
Apparently such seasonal winds are often tied to monsoon climates. Also the Glossography implies that these seasonal winds are generally the norm for the whole of the Flanaess. Rather than try and mirror the lattitudes at which Earth's prevailing winds change direction I took Gygax's details to heart. Magic or any of the several wind or weather deities could be at play here. I used the direction of the currents (see below) to determine that the North / North-east winds of winter and autumn are the 'default' ones linked to the ocean currents. In my mind these northerlies also connect with the encroaching Land of Black Ice. I'll try and do a summer/fall map when I get a moment.
I only found three canon references to ocean currents:
i) Drawmij - That there is a warm current flowing from the west, past Zeif & Ekbir and then turning northwards
ii) Woolly Bay - 2 slow currents circulate the bay. The Safeton Spin flowing counterclockwise in the northern third & the Wild Current travelling clockwise in the southern two-thirds of the bay. (Slavers, p38)
iii) Solnor Ocean - "A huge clockwise current sweeps up the coast of the eastern Flanaess, carrying ships from the Thillonrian Peninsula out to sea, and bringing curious debris (doubtless from whatever land is on the Solnor’s far side) to the shores of Hepmonaland and the Lordship of the Isles..." (LGG, pp 149-150)
I decided to go with the direction of the currents of the Solnor, with the Drawmij going 'against the flow' so to speak, perhaps being magical in nature.
And four versions of the rough climate zones based on the information in the Greyhawk Player's Guide. Obviously these zones don't really hug a straight latitude all the way across the globe, it's more a guide or approximation I assume.
This is my map of choice. I've set the subtropical zone (which isn't mentioned in the GHPG) to coincide with the latitude at which it states snow rarely happens. If you want to go strictly as written or simply prefer a more temperate climate in your Flanaess then it would look like this ...
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