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Master Greytalker
Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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From: Computer Desk
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Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:54 pm
So Many Hordes - So little Information
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As I understand it; two hordes.
1) Brazen Horde
2) Relentless Horde
The Brazen Horde - Origin - Southern Komal
Terrorized across the gulf of Ghayar and was invited by Zeif to settle; formented rebellion and absorbed some mercenary paynim tribes. Ran amuck throughout baklunish west and briefly raided beyond fals gap. Parts of the horde broke off as they raided different lands and over time assimilated into the baklunish nations. Ket has a particularily strong nomadic ancestral presence.
The Relentless Horde - Origin - Plains of Paynim
Paynim tribes raid baklunish nations particularily Zeif - displaced by Brazen Horde and pushed north. Formed into Relentless Horde and terriorized the north driving the rovers of the barrens ever eastward. Leader dies and Relentless Horde splits into Tiger and Wolf Nomads both claim lands of their own.
Am I close or way off 
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Posts: 1846
From: Mt. Smolderac
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Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:36 pm
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Looks good to me. The only thing I'd question is "Ket has a particularily strong nomadic ancestral presence." From the Ket entry in the LGG my interpretation is that the Brazen Horde plundered Ket while it was an "ally" and used it mainly as a platform for attacking Veluna until Keoland invaded Ket. What is your source for that?
As an aside, from my reading it looks to me like the Tiger and Wolf nomads were both pre-existing before becoming part of the Relentless Horde. Is that the interpretation of others?
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
Posts: 3317
From: Michigan
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Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:49 am
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| smillan_31 wrote: |
| Looks good to me. The only thing I'd question is "Ket has a particularily strong nomadic ancestral presence." From the Ket entry in the LGG my interpretation is that the Brazen Horde plundered Ket while it was an "ally" and used it mainly as a platform for attacking Veluna until Keoland invaded Ket. What is your source for that? |
The Brazen Horde plundered Ket for almost 50 years. I'd be very surprised if they didn't interbreed with the locals in that time.
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| As an aside, from my reading it looks to me like the Tiger and Wolf nomads were both pre-existing before becoming part of the Relentless Horde. Is that the interpretation of others? |
Yes. It looks like the Tiger Nomads lived in the southern Plains of the Paynims before being thrown together with the Wolf Nomads and joining the Relentless Horde. There may be other beast-themed tribes, long-separated cousins of the Wolves and Tigers, among the Paynims to this day.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 184
From: Houston Texas
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Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:09 pm
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Speaking of Wolf Nomads, are the Rose Estes Novles about the Wolf Nomad Mika-Oba considered part of cannon?
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Master Greytalker
Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:33 pm
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Rose Estes canon  canon Rose Estes Too Funny
As I read it the Brazen Horde settled briefly within several baklunish nations. Given real world there had to have been some assimilation and intermarriage but the horde remained in ket the longest - 50 years. So I assume Ket has the strongest horde ancestry and the largest number of assilimated nomads. Perhaps that cultural infusion explains the fierce Kettite horsemen. Ket does seem to have a larger native calvary culture then most baklunish states.
Just curious...
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Master Greytalker
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
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Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:59 pm
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| manus-nigrum wrote: |
| Speaking of Wolf Nomads, are the Rose Estes Novles about the Wolf Nomad Mika-Oba considered part of cannon? |
Just in case this was a serious question..... NO! *laughs* Rose Estes is generally considered the worst thing to ever happen to Greyhawk and possibly fantasy literature. The joke Greyhawk Castle evokes less loathing generally.
And i'm pretty sure she was officially disavowed by a subsequent Line Developer, so that's not just fan opinion.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Posts: 1846
From: Mt. Smolderac
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Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:27 pm
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| Crag wrote: |
As I read it the Brazen Horde settled briefly within several baklunish nations. Given real world there had to have been some assimilation and intermarriage but the horde remained in ket the longest - 50 years. So I assume Ket has the strongest horde ancestry and the largest number of assilimated nomads. Perhaps that cultural infusion explains the fierce Kettite horsemen. Ket does seem to have a larger native calvary culture then most baklunish states.
Just curious... |
That's great analysis. I had never noticed that before. Thanks.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:35 pm
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| Vormaerin wrote: |
| And i'm pretty sure she was officially disavowed by a subsequent Line Developer, so that's not just fan opinion. |
Erik Mona, if memory serves, "de-canonized" both Rose Estes and "Funny" Castle Greyhawk _in canon_. He wrote some article for Dragon/Dungeon/LGJ or some such and by scarsely concealed name had both declared "frauds" and "de-listed" from the Great Library in Greyhawk City by the sage Iquander, who had moved there from Neelix. "Iquander" was, of course, Mona's screen name on the old AOL GH forum.
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Jul 05, 2020
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From: Delanson
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Fri May 07, 2021 8:59 am
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Anybody know the text source for the Relentless Horde? Nothing online has any citations and I can't tell fandom from canon.
_________________
The eternal war between Law and Chaos flared often in Greyhawk... But the laws of Chance will let neither gain full sway. Quag Keep, Chap 1&2
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Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac
Joined: May 29, 2018
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Fri May 07, 2021 11:38 am
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| Aldarron wrote: |
| Anybody know the text source for the Relentless Horde? Nothing online has any citations and I can't tell fandom from canon. |
Relentless Horde [PPL]
LGG - 35,86,95,114,133
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Fri May 07, 2021 8:34 pm
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A scenario in Dungeon #136, "The Coming Storm," also mentions the Relentless Horde in its background (page 37).
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Apprentice Greytalker
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From: Delanson
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Sat May 08, 2021 4:53 pm
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Thanks Jason and Rasgon!
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The eternal war between Law and Chaos flared often in Greyhawk... But the laws of Chance will let neither gain full sway. Quag Keep, Chap 1&2
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