The first suggestion in the module is "Have the party meet at Saltmarsh as a result of vague rumours that there is worthy work for adventurers in the neighborhood." Isn't that good enough and just hand-wave the travel of 800 miles?
"Your meandering travels have brought you to [inn/tavern name], and after an evening of drinks, and a shared meal, you find yourself beginning to form a bond with a small group of like-minded ne'er-do-wells. As the evening winds down, and most of the patrons have left, the door crashes open, letting in the rain and howling wind...and a grizzled old local by the looks of him. He firmly shuts the door and asks for something warm to drink, as he seats himself familiarly at a small table. He looks you over, and nods his head himself. "Oh, but you're an interesting lot, aren't you. I'm betting you'll be [tripping over all sorts of plot strings] by this time tomorrow." _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
@Raymond Thanks for your input. Yeah I could easily hand waive the distance, done that many times over the years to get the party from A to B. Getting the party from Saltmarsh to the Temple isn’t really an issue for me. Rather, I’m looking for interesting hooks to connect the two. Given that there is a large 800-900 mile distance between the two, it’s not quite as straightforward as the Hommlet/Moathouse/Nulb/Temple connection; ideally, I’d like a strong network that bridges these two across that large distance. The smugglers could be moving weapons, supplies, and/or slaves north to the temple, for instance. So I was interested in what others at CF had to add.
As Grodog and a few others have mentioned earlier, I can easily move Saltmarsh a little closer - also a very viable alternative. Another suggestion was the Low Road through the Lortmils as detailed in Visions of Greyhawk #2, which has piqued my interest as well and I’m currently reading the excellent article about it. Lots to think about. I can make this as simple or as convoluted s required, just spitballing ideas.
Another suggestion was the Low Road through the Lortmils as detailed in Visions of Greyhawk #2, which has piqued my interest as well and I’m currently reading the excellent article about it.
I was a bit concerned about this suggestion as I remember reading somewhere in that article that non-dwarves are simply never allowed in the Low Road. When I read it, I thought it a point I'd have to ignore in my own campaign if I ever used it because, unless my party was all dwarves, the only way they'd get access was through battle with the dwarves guarding it or high-level subterfuge.
Perhaps I miss-read that part, but I'm pointing it out for your consideration.
Thanks for the reply. All I can think of would be to enslave the PCs to get them there and then have them break out. There are a lot more people here that know more about Greyhawk than I do that might have just the ticket you're looking for.
Hopefully this isn't too late: I'm just returning to the forums after a multi-month break.
Ghosts of Saltmarsh features an ambassador of Iuz within the town. I disliked this idea upon first reading it, but it seems potentially useful for the original query: if you get rid of the ambassador but instead make the character a suspicious merchant / smuggler (i.e., motivate the PCs to interact with / confront this character), then you could give them a reason to travel up the coast to investigate the arms shipment (or whatever contraband you prefer) that Iuz, or the Horned Society, etc. have somehow managed to smuggle out of Keoland.
Hey mtg, nope it’s not too late! We’re aren’t starting this campaign until mid-January, thanks for your input.
I will definitely use the Faithful Quartermaster of Iuz as my hook towards Nulb and the Temple, using your great suggestion as a dubious merchant with connections to the smugglers rather than an ambassador. I’ll also change her race (I detest tieflings), probably to human but I haven’t fully decided on that yet.
My initial plan was to get the party from Saltmarsh to Nulb as quickly as possible once they’re finished U1, but I’m now considering a wilderness segue with Night’s Dark Terror between U1 and Nulb/ToEE. I’ve never run this module, but have always wanted to and the party should be the right level after U1. So I’m brainstorming ways to shoehorn this into the campaign. I’ve read Flint’s post, which contains some great ideas - I like how he places the adventure in the Lortmils and Verbobonc, keeping it in the vicinity of the Temple. Not sure about using Esmerin as the lost civilization and I’ll scrap the Kostchtchie angle (the party is way too low level for that), but I think I can make this work. Maybe the smugglers from U1 are part of the Iron Ring? Again, open to any and all suggestions.
Glad to hear it's helpful. I'd forgotten that Ghosts of Saltmarsh made that NPC a tiefling and agree with your decision to change it: although later editions made them "uncommon," my sense of Greyhawk keeps them "very rare." (Also, later editions made tieflings seem more like 1e cambions or alu-demons with their overly large horns, etc.)
I'm unfamiliar with Night's Dark Terror, but its Wikipedia entry makes it sound very exciting and makes me think you could use parts of it to represent the PCs journey up the Sheldomar River and thence overland to Nulb.
Also, your post reminded me that I made the cursed luckstone into an actual Philosopher’s Stone and paired it with a cursed (by Mammon) tome, Ye Alchemyst’s Stone. I sort of did it on a whim, but it worked tremendously for my PCs, who had to rely on a NPC member of the party's casting of identify and who really struggled over what to do with such a powerful artifact. (They ultimately gave it to the Prince of Monmurg, Jeon II.)
I share my anecdote as a longwinded wind-up to offer that you might simply teleport your PCs from Saltmarsh (or perhaps as they make their way up the coast toward Sanduchar and thence Gryrax?) to Nulb, making the source of the magic foreshadow other aspects of your intended campaign or the World of Greyhawk in general. For example, maybe they interact with Nystul, whose undersea lair is relatively near to Saltmarsh?
Glad to hear it's helpful. I'd forgotten that Ghosts of Saltmarsh made that NPC a tiefling and agree with your decision to change it: although later editions made them "uncommon," my sense of Greyhawk keeps them "very rare." (Also, later editions made tieflings seem more like 1e cambions or alu-demons with their overly large horns, etc.)
Yeah, I try to keep my GH a lot less cosmopolitan. Tieflings especially, as they are fiend-blooded, wouldn't be tolerated in almost any civilized area when you consider they were so destructive and prominent in the GH wars that it took the Flight of the Fiends to expunge them from the Flanaess.
Quote:
I'm unfamiliar with Night's Dark Terror, but its Wikipedia entry makes it sound very exciting and makes me think you could use parts of it to represent the PCs journey up the Sheldomar River and thence overland to Nulb.
That's an excellent idea! Initially I was thinking the party could sail up the Wild Coast and make their way inland from there, but I like the shorter trip to Gradsul and maybe borading a Rhenee barge up the Sheldomar better.
I realize you're unfamiliar with B10, so I'll try to be brief here. In the module, the PCs seek out a lost civilization of jackal-headed humanoids in a hidden valley called Hutaaka. I could run that as is, but my train of thought was to change it to an early Suel House that migrated into the Lortmils and established a hidden domain - similar to what House Malhel did in the Deadwood (only this House isn't necessarily as evil as Malhel nor did it suffer the same fate). Seeing as the twelve (eighteen..?) houses migrated and settled or moved through the Sheldomar Valley, I feel it's a more natural fit into GH than a forgotten race. With the PCs travelling up the Sheldomar River, it should make an easier transition into B10, if you follow me.
Quote:
Also, your post reminded me that I made the cursed luckstone into an actual Philosopher’s Stone and paired it with a cursed (by Mammon) tome, Ye Alchemyst’s Stone. I sort of did it on a whim, but it worked tremendously for my PCs, who had to rely on a NPC member of the party's casting of identify and who really struggled over what to do with such a powerful artifact. (They ultimately gave it to the Prince of Monmurg, Jeon II.)
I share my anecdote as a longwinded wind-up to offer that you might simply teleport your PCs from Saltmarsh (or perhaps as they make their way up the coast toward Sanduchar and thence Gryrax?) to Nulb, making the source of the magic foreshadow other aspects of your intended campaign or the World of Greyhawk in general. For example, maybe they interact with Nystul, whose undersea lair is relatively near to Saltmarsh?
Cool idea with the cursed luckstone. I'm not sure I follow how I could use it to foreshadow other parts of the campaign...I'll have to give that some thought. Also, I think it was Drawmidj that has an undersea lair near Saltmarsh, although I like your Nystul connection to Saltmarsh - maybe the alchemist was a pupil or something.
The first suggestion in the module is "Have the party meet at Saltmarsh as a result of vague rumours that there is worthy work for adventurers in the neighborhood." Isn't that good enough and just hand-wave the travel of 800 miles?
Two words:
Curse. Scroll.
One of the original curses from the DMG was to have the party teleported several thousand miles in a random direction. As DM, you can override how far and which way a curse scroll will teleport your players with a literal wave of your hand.
mtg wrote:
Ghosts of Saltmarsh features an ambassador of Iuz within the town. I disliked this idea upon first reading it, but it seems potentially useful for the original query: if you get rid of the ambassador but instead make the character a suspicious merchant / smuggler (i.e., motivate the PCs to interact with / confront this character), then you could give them a reason to travel up the coast to investigate the arms shipment (or whatever contraband you prefer) that Iuz, or the Horned Society, etc. have somehow managed to smuggle out of Keoland.
I actually like the idea of evil-aligned states still having diplomatic interests and embassies with other countries, particularly as it further adds the "Grey" to the Hawk. In my own Greyhawk, the Horned Empire exchanges ambassadors with states like Greyhawk, Dyvers, Keoland, the Ulek states, Nyrond and Tenh. Furyondy is none too pleased by this, but it's hardly in a position to do much about it!
I'd have to review my copy of Ghosts, but what was the ambassador doing there? Was he planning some kind of evil activity to undermine the royal or local governments?
I actually like the idea of evil-aligned states still having diplomatic interests and embassies with other countries, particularly as it further adds the "Grey" to the Hawk. In my own Greyhawk, the Horned Empire exchanges ambassadors with states like Greyhawk, Dyvers, Keoland, the Ulek states, Nyrond and Tenh. Furyondy is none too pleased by this, but it's hardly in a position to do much about it!
I'd have to review my copy of Ghosts, but what was the ambassador doing there? Was he planning some kind of evil activity to undermine the royal or local governments?
The official title is: "Faithful Quartermasters of Iuz, a trade delegation led by Captain Xendros (CE female tiefling priest) that has come to Saltmarsh to acquire large quantities of fish in the name of Iuz..." She has no dubious plans or machinations as is.
I'm also good with diplomats/delegates/ambassadors in the region, but I'll change her race to human. I think I'll make her (or one of the other delegates) an agent of the Temple of Elemental Evil in Iuz's service. She can use Gellan Primewater's smuggling ring to acquire slaves then ship them up to Gradsul, then pay the Rhenee to take them up the Sheldomar. This creates a cross-country route the PCs can (hopefully) follow to Nulb. It will be during this trek that I can insert B10 Night's Dark Terror in as a mini-campaign before the Temple.
Instead of following the Rhenee, the PCs may choose to trail Captain Xendros' ship up the Wild Coast and thus bypass B10, which is fine...but a missed opportunity :(
Tieflings especially, as they are fiend-blooded, wouldn't be tolerated in almost any civilized area when you consider they were so destructive and prominent in the GH wars that it took the Flight of the Fiends to expunge them from the Flanaess.
The holidays delayed my response. Luz's quote made me think that a post-GH Wars campaign might actually feature 3e tieflings in various places that suffered demonic and devilish depredation—particularly the former Shield Lands, northern Furyondy, Almor, and possibly parts of the Great Kingdom. I've only run one campaign in that era (based on the Istivin trilogy), so I hadn't "noticed" that it makes for a canon-consonant way to introduce that kind of PC. Still, IMCs, a tiefling would be better off if misidentified as a half-orc rather than demon-spawn: particularly in the immediate aftermath of the Flight of Fiends or amidst the Great Northern Crusade, I can't imagine many being merciful to them. (Perhaps just devotees of Zodal?)
CruelSummerLord wrote:
I actually like the idea of evil-aligned states still having diplomatic interests and embassies with other countries, particularly as it further adds the "Grey" to the Hawk. In my own Greyhawk, the Horned Empire exchanges ambassadors with states like Greyhawk, Dyvers, Keoland, the Ulek states, Nyrond and Tenh. Furyondy is none too pleased by this, but it's hardly in a position to do much about it!
I generally agree as to Greyhawk and Dyvers but think that places much farther away are less likely to receive an official emissary from the Horned Society (or Iuz for that matter).
Luz wrote:
The official title is: "Faithful Quartermasters of Iuz, a trade delegation led by Captain Xendros (CE female tiefling priest) that has come to Saltmarsh to acquire large quantities of fish in the name of Iuz..." She has no dubious plans or machinations as is.
This reminds me that upon first reading this part of Ghosts of Saltmarsh, the relative backwater of Saltmarsh struck me as far too distant for Iuz to send a trade delegation for "large quantities of fish". Maybe that was intended as an obvious "cover" for slavery, but even this kind of "valuable goods" seems not adequately valuable to justify the distance for import to Iuz. IMO, the Hold is just too far away—unless, like Luz, one has a campaign-related reason to make it so:
Luz wrote:
I'm also good with diplomats/delegates/ambassadors in the region, but I'll change her race to human. I think I'll make her (or one of the other delegates) an agent of the Temple of Elemental Evil in Iuz's service. She can use Gellan Primewater's smuggling ring to acquire slaves then ship them up to Gradsul, then pay the Rhenee to take them up the Sheldomar. This creates a cross-country route the PCs can (hopefully) follow to Nulb. It will be during this trek that I can insert B10 Night's Dark Terror in as a mini-campaign before the Temple.
Instead of following the Rhenee, the PCs may choose to trail Captain Xendros' ship up the Wild Coast and thus bypass B10, which is fine...but a missed opportunity :(
My initial thought was to make Xendros a half-orc, but upon reviewing this now, I'd likely create a new NPC for the delegation's "captain," probably half-orc or human but not a priest of Iuz, and then keep Xendros as a priestess of Iuz but make her be the delegation's "advisor," possibly keeping her a tiefling, but disguised as, or confused for, a half-orc.
But again, Saltmarsh just seems too small / unimportant to merit any kind of official delegation.
This reminds me that upon first reading this part of Ghosts of Saltmarsh, the relative backwater of Saltmarsh struck me as far too distant for Iuz to send a trade delegation for "large quantities of fish".
I agree with this mostly, Saltmarsh just isn’t noteworthy enough to warrant a trade delegation. Seaton maybe. But for the sake of the campaign I’ll roll with it, I don’t think it will raise eyebrows at the table.
mtg wrote:
Quote:
My initial thought was to make Xendros a half-orc, but upon reviewing this now, I'd likely create a new NPC for the delegation's "captain," probably half-orc or human but not a priest of Iuz, and then keep Xendros as a priestess of Iuz but make her be the delegation's "advisor," possibly keeping her a tiefling, but disguised as, or confused for, a half-orc.
I think that’s an excellent idea and will wholeheartedly use it. Rather than make the Iuz agent a tiefling, I’ve toyed with the idea of making her a cambion in disguise. Far above the party’s pay grade, I know, but they likely won’t identify her as part of the slavery ring until the end of the adventure - and even then will not know her true nature. Could make for an interesting recurring villaiin.
My only problem with the trade delegates is that the players will zero in on them almost immediately. “A trade delegation to who??? IUZ??? We better investigate this…” The delegates could also make an excellent red herring.
At level 10, the priestess of Iuz is pretty high up in his hierarchy. She's almost certainly an agent of one of the Boneheart, a trusted agent of one of the Greater Boneheart priestesses or a very trusted agent of one of the Lesser Boneheart priests. She is almost certainly scheming to take a position on the Lesser Boneheart (perhaps in conjunction with her current patron).
With this in mind, the fish are an excuse (though a bonus because Iuz has mentioned craving Saltmarshian caviar), and her real mission is, choose the option(s) you like best:
1. She's collecting intelligence on the area.
2. She's working to foil a plot by the Scarlet Brotherhood because Iuz hates them.
3. She's working to collaborate with the Scarlet Brotherhood because either she wants power or her patron wants something out of it (and the patron gets to maintain deniability by using her as his or her agent).
4. She's looking to recover a powerful magical item/lesser artifact that's in the area.
5. She's unofficially making contact with a representative of someone Iuz wants backchannel relations with, such as Drax the Invincible or Kas.
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