In the days of yore, TSR packaged up a series of modules to make one big compilation - a "supermodule" if you will. In an effort to make the whole more than just the sum of its parts, materials were added to the already published modules and the idea was that the entirety of these modules could make one huge campaign. The modules in question were: T1-4, A1-4, and GDQ 1-7 - known as "The Temple of Elemental Evil", "Scourge of the Slavelords", and "Queen of the Spiders".
I finally got a copy of the Scourge of the Slavelords - I already owned the other two. So in the spirit of being a reviewer and a completist, I want to go through each of these supermodules and see what was added, taken away, and whether they succeeded in making the first adventure path of D&D.
Starting off with the first one, T1-4, it is hardly fair to critique. Out of the alleged four modules it is based on, only one, T1 The Village of Hommlet, was ever separately published. So in essence, three quarters of the supermodule is new material.
But I will press on in my usual review style. This was published in 1985, and its format set the standard for the other supermodules TSR would produce. It was a 128-page book with a 16-page map insert. Almost all of the art in this book is new, there really was not much in T1 anyway.
I will go into the pros and cons of this in another post.
The first unofficial adventure path could be WG1-WG6. But these were not supermodules. WG1 was renamed T1 and was released in 1979. WG2 was renamed T1-4. WG3 was renamed S4. WG6 was released in 1985. These would cover levels 1-18+.
T1-4 covers levels 1-8.
A1-4 covers levels 7-11.
GDQ1-7 was released in 1986. It covers levels 8-14.
Interestingly, the A series has an A0 for "Danger at Darkshelf Quarry" from 2015 for levels 1-3 (nevermind what the front cover says) and what I'll call A0.5 for "Lowdown in Highport" from Dungeon Magazine - #221 from 2013 for levels 3-5. So those bits aren't in either the original modules or in the supermodule.
Again, this is hardly a genuine review of the supermodule format, because in this case, the supermodule is all we have of ToEE. Because that, this supermodule is a must have for the Greyhawk fan.
There is a lot of lore packed into the adventure, but some of it is obscure. There did not seem to be any canonical follow on with some details. The dungeon of the temple is huge, making it an early example of a megadungeon (though in number of levels it is not really that deep - but the levels do sprawl).
A lot of players and DMs used T1 as their introduction to Greyhawk, so for that alone this adventure gets a lot of nostalgia points. Bottom line is that this supermodule is required reading for the Greyhawk fan.
In an effort to make the whole more than just the sum of its parts, materials were added to the already published modules [snip]
So in the spirit of being a reviewer and a completist, I want to go through each of these supermodules and see what was added, taken away, and whether they succeeded in making the first adventure path of D&D.
Some of the added material was interesting, more so in A1-4 than GDQ1-7, as I recall, but I don’t recall there being a ton in either.
Osmund-Davizid wrote:
and the idea was that the entirety of these modules could make one huge campaign.
And that, of course, was always the problem with this concept in the first place, since the original campaigns were unrelated, and the levels sequences out-of-order….
Osmund-Davizid wrote:
The modules in question were: T1-4, A1-4, and GDQ 1-7 - known as "The Temple of Elemental Evil", "Scourge of the Slavelords", and "Queen of the Spiders".
S1-4 did something of the same, while omitting most of S3, and B1-9, but ISTR that they were even more so hatched jobs.
Allan. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
But I will press on in my usual review style. This was published in 1985, and its format set the standard for the other supermodules TSR would produce. It was a 128-page book with a 16-page map insert.
The T1-4 map booklet is probably the worst-produced set of maps for any published TSR module: they’re sloppy, inaccurate, and just plain poorly-rendered. The fact that they were also much smaller than the 8.5x11” standard size only exacerbated the issue further (although the maps being separate and not bound-in was quite useful).
Allan. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
The first unofficial adventure path could be WG1-WG6. But these were not supermodules. WG1 was renamed T1 and was released in 1979. WG2 was renamed T1-4. WG3 was renamed S4. WG6 was released in 1985. These would cover levels 1-18+.
An interesting idea I had never considered!
T1-4 was 1-8; WG4 was levels 5-10; S4 was 6-10; WG5 was 1985 for levels 9-12; WG6 was 18+. That still leaves a large gap between WG5 and WG6, but Gary, Steve Marsh, and Skip Williams we’re working on planar modules like Starstrands (some info on Steve’s site at https://adrr.com/story/sketch.htm#StarStrands and I have a TSR memo I’ll try to refind my typed-up text for), and Shadowlands (some info at the Acaeum at https://www.acaeum.com/library/research.html).
My hunch is that Rob Kuntz’s Xaene and PlantMaster modules (Xaene first done as an RPGA scenario in 1983, self-published by Rob in 1987-88) were also intended to fit into the mix here, along (of course) with the unpublished Stoink and City+Castle Greyhawk and Lost City of the Elders serieses.
Raymond wrote:
A1-4 covers levels 7-11.
Interestingly, the A series has an A0 for "Danger at Darkshelf Quarry" from 2015 for levels 1-3 (nevermind what the front cover says) and what I'll call A0.5 for "Lowdown in Highport" from Dungeon Magazine - #221 from 2013 for levels 3-5. So those bits aren't in either the original modules or in the supermodule.
Since the individual A1-4 modules were originally for levels 4-7, the prequel adventures fit in better with the original level ranges.
Allan. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
A lot of players and DMs used T1 as their introduction to Greyhawk, so for that alone this adventure gets a lot of nostalgia points. Bottom line is that this supermodule is required reading for the Greyhawk fan.
That said, in addition to the abysmal maps, the editing in T1-4 was also pretty shoddy. The original T1 text was trimmed/abridged intentionally or just screwed up during production, removing details present in the original module.
Trent Smith did some nice work analyzing the issues with T2-4 on his blog; see:
S1-4 did something of the same, while omitting most of S3, and B1-9, but ISTR that they were even more so hatched jobs.
Allan.
I am not sure "hatchet job" is sufficient to describe B1-9.
B1 is just the map with no key, B2 loses the keep and outdoor areas, B4 drops the partially described lower levels, the outdoor material for B5 was deleted, two of three outdoor paths in B8 were skipped, and one part of the five in B9 was not included.
It is just short of false advertising on the cover as "the best of the B-Series modules".
If you want the B1-9 modules, you need to buy them, not the partial compilation.
I confess, part of this is going to be personal to me, but I tried to like this supermodule, but just do not. I know it is a "classic" and has been voted on being one of the top adventures in D&D (#4 according to issue 116 of Dungeon Magazine), but I never really cared for this product as it was presented.
This last point is important, as with all review of modules and adventures, you are free to modify as your style and campaign warrant it, but to have a common reference a review needs to try and keep their insights to what was presented in the product itself, not what you can modify on your own. And as I see it, this product was a let down, especially compared to the hype surrounding its release. Finally, we were going to get a huge supermodule of a place that was steeped in Greyhawk lore, but what we got was really more of a 'meh' large dungeon.
Don't get me wrong, there are some bits and pieces in it that should really be considered positives: we got stats for a new demon! That was welcome. But this particular demoness was not really elemental based. Now, Zuggtmoy did have connections to Iuz and Greyhawk lore, so having her in the mix made sense in that respect. But the module kinda makes her lame: she "decided that Elemental Evil would have more appeal than a cult dedicated to her beloved fungi", while maybe being more practical in a humanocentric way, nothing says that you are a big, powerful demon more than ditching your motif for a generic elemental one.
I liked the idea of the different factions of elemental evil and other powers competing in the temple. That lended itself to some role playing opportunities. But all in all, I think this product could have benefitted from being published as separate modules first, T1 being Hommlet, maybe having T2 be Nulb and the outer portions of the temple, and T3 and T4 being the upper and lower levels. In that manner, the entire dungeon and plot could have been kept in more bite sized portions making it easier to resolve some of the conflicting plot points and ideas.
I think I always just expected something better in the vein of the GDQ series. We got a big adventure to be sure, but I am left with it just not really being that memorable in the same way the best Greyhawk adventures did.
O-D
Last edited by Osmund-Davizid on Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
I played through it first as a kid in high school, then later ran it as the DM. My main problem with the adventure itself was that I just didn't understand many of the sub-plots going on. Nulb, as a side-trek, didn't seem to be necessary. Lareth and Falrinth, both apprently human, worshipping Lolth seemed out of place - Lareth was supposed to be supervising the provisioning of the Temple, IIRC, and Falrinth had a secret lair hidden right in the Temple itself.
I grew up playing (and DMing) Basic and Expert and Advanced D&D modules, so I know how they were written. But, the chaotic randomness of the various rooms' occupants made no sense whatsoever. It's no wonder those idiot elemental clerics couldn't raise an army. ToEE takes too much work by the DM to make it into a believable campaign, in my opinion.
The lower level and elemental nodes seem very thrown together and played out as a pretty dull, brutal slog after the brutal slog of the third level. And then of course there is the rather casual 5% or so chance of instant death via deus ex random die roll.
I definitely agree about the plot issues with Lareth and Falrinth. While people love the Lolth references, I think they are best simply changed to being Zuggtmoy, and never mind the crossover with GDQ.
I have also noted in the past, particularly when the edition wars start up, the raw amount of treasure, both coin and magical, compounded by stripping the fittings (picking up every bit of mundane equipment) which is called out in the instruction text. Never mind local inflation in Hommlet, the entire economy of Verbobonc should be threatened with collapse if all of that is dumped on the market!
The magic deserves particular attention. There are perhaps a dozen men-at-arms and NPC captives to be found and offered employment. There is enough magic arms and armor for all of them to be strutting around with +1 everything without impinging on character equipment in the slightest. That is before getting to the rods, staffs, wands, and wondrous items, which are enough to equip another party.
Ultimately, while I mostly like it, I understand those who do not. It is not an easy module to love.
The lower level and elemental nodes seem very thrown together and played out as a pretty dull, brutal slog after the brutal slog of the third level. And then of course there is the rather casual 5% or so chance of instant death via deus ex random die roll.
True...
Though my dwarven cleric/fighter had the perfect justification for calling on Moradin with his Necklace of Prayer Beads [summon your deity] to save the party when Iuz showed up. The DM said we heard Moradin's voice boom out, "Cuthbert! Handle this!" and St. Cuthbert appeared and battled Iuz while we escaped through a mirror that would teleport us elsewhere.
Quote:
Ultimately, while I mostly like it, I understand those who do not. It is not an easy module to love.
And, true. I do like the module. I just prefer many others that require far less work on my part as the DM.
Alrighty - here is my overall impression of the T1-4 supermodule.
As a collector of Greyhawk and a fan of the setting, this is something that you should own, either electronically or in print. But just being reviewed on its own merits, ToEE is not a great product as it is written. I suspect a lot of the folks who give it high praise began their D&D careers with T1 - and on the power of that module give higher marks to T1-4 than they would otherwise, and/or be willing to do a lot of extra writing to cover up some of the module's flaws (I began my Greyhawk career with Orlane and Saltmarsh rather than Hommlet, so I definitely did not have a personal connection to any of the adventuring points in ToEE).
So having said all of that, I give this product two stars out of five. If you can get this for a reasonable price, you should definitely do so, but it may be more for a collection then for actual play.
Ultimately, I thought this product as written wanted to be epic, but it ended up being too disjointed and obscure to make a lasting impact on the world of Greyhawk setting.
Case in point - SPOILERS: in room 334 you can find the kidnapped Grand Marshall of Furyondy in a weird illusion-stasis and can rescue him if the party sees through the illusion. This is potentially a world altering event! But future products did not go through with any follow on about this - in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil - this character actually is a vampire. So this seems to be a thread that the individual DM can decide to use in their campaign or not as they see fit.
Another point I found perplexing to me is that if the ToEE is indeed rising in power again, why are the doors with the protective symbols and seals not being desecrated/destroyed by the temple followers? Sure, there are antipathy spells protecting the doors from evil, but any halfway clever plan should be able to defeat them. There seemed to me that there was too many things going on in the ToEE to have this point not addressed (maybe have these doors damaged and the PCs have to repair them would be a better plot point?)
Anyway, some products reference/try to explain some of these hanging chads. In Iuz the Evil, some of the inconsistencies were described as being part of a diversion plan by Iuz leading up to the Greyhawk Wars. As mentioned above, there was a Return to the ToEE, but that product muddled things up even more for me, and I found that I liked it even less than the original.
There have been many additions and discussions over these very topics on forums and podcasts over the years. There was a "T5 Errata" that some fans homebrewed. Greyhawk Grognard made up an addition to reconcile ToEE with other products (along with some add-ons to T1). Available here:
The bottom line is that this adventure had a lot of potential, but ultimately it is what you decide to make it. As written, I found it to be middling, but I am sure many DMs out there edited it and added to it to make ToEE the epic it deserves to be. To those people, I salute you!
Now, on to the reason I began this thread - Scourge of the Slavelords (SotS).
As I said earlier, I owned the original A1, A2, A3, and A4 modules, but never had the collected supermodule before. It was published in 1986, after ToEE, and followed the same format - it is a 128 page book with a 16 page map insert. In this case, however, the supermodule is taking four published modules and adding in extra materials around them, rather than using only one published module with all new materials.
One thing about this type of publishing is that the re-release can fix some errors in the original modules. I especially noticed that the temple in A1 had an error in it, and in SotS they fix that (a doorway now connects rooms 9 and 16A). So for that, it is a nice touch to polish up on errata.
Having said that, there are some little differences between the original series and SotS. For one, the sails of the slavelords are described as purple in SotS, while they were yellow in the A1 background and were described that way in the follow up module Slavers. Certainly a minor point, to be sure, but if that is something I spot in the very early background information of a product, it may be an indicator of a lack of attention to detail throughout the product.
I will detail my thoughts on the positives and negatives in a follow up thread, so stay tuned.
O-D
Last edited by Osmund-Davizid on Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
I played in Hommlet many times, never DMed it. That seemed to be our starting point. By the time ToEE came out we had moved on. From what I have read, I think we did not miss a thing.
OK let us talk about the positive aspects of SotS.
One thing I appreciated about SotS was actually the forward comments by David Cook. He explains the thought process behind making the A1 through 4 modules. They were tournament modules and each author had some requirements to meet when drafting their adventure (having 2 traps, 1 trick, an ambush encounter, etc). That little bit does a lot to explain why these adventures were set up they way they were. That is a good example of a thing to include in a repackaging - some inside looks into the thought process.
One positive was that the overland travel from Highport to Suderham was fleshed out a little more. While not having too much detail (I would have preferred more detailed maps rather than geomorphs of Highport, for example) any more information on the Pomarj was a good thing. I also did like the running bit about having a couple of the Slavelords in a rivalry and having one of them passing on information to set up his rival through the players. That tidbit gives a reason to how a party of adventurers could get so far into enemy territory.
As a side note: one of the slavelords is the drow Edralve. Now playing the supermodules as one big adventure makes having this character introduced earlier then the published introduction of drow. G3 is when the dark elves made their game debut in 1978, and their introduction was intended to rock the game world. A4 was published in 1981 after drow became common knowledge. So depending on how you run your campaigns, this character's introduction loses some of its impact. But by current standards, drow are a common fantasy trope, so this may be a moot point anyway.
Edralve was originally described as being an exile from Erelhei-Cinlu, but in SotS, she "has powerful connections as described in Queen of the Spiders", making her likely an ally of Eclavdra. I find that to be an interesting development, making the slavelords a part of Eclavdra's schemes as well as the giants. I think that is a plot point worth exploiting in the larger narrative.
As far as the adventures themselves, each of them definitely feels like a tournament adventure - there are puzzles to work through, some randomness to negotiate, and surprises that are non-standard. Makes you think you are being graded as you go. They are fun to play, and worthy of a strong campaign setting to support them.
As a side note: one of the slavelords is the drow Edralve. Now playing the supermodules as one big adventure makes having this character introduced earlier then the published introduction of drow. G3 is when the dark elves made their game debut in 1978, and their introduction was intended to rock the game world. A4 was published in 1981 after drow became common knowledge. So depending on how you run your campaigns, this character's introduction loses some of its impact. But by current standards, drow are a common fantasy trope, so this may be a moot point anyway.
Drow were already starting to proliferate even before A2 (which featured a drowic merchant caravan buying slaves destined for Erelhei Cinlu), A4, “Forest of Doom”, UA, and Drizzt.
My hunch is that the A2 and A4 encounters are what drove the supermodule thinking that connected A1-4 to GDQ.
Allan. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
I noted the issue of the drow in the A series if you follow it with the GDQ supermodule - it takes away the shock reveal in G3.
Of course, nowadays, drow are a dime a dozen.
So now for the downsides of the supermodule. One note, I am evaluating SotS as a supermodule, not the individual adventures A1 to A4. This is really a look at the whole package to see if the new materials add or detract to the original modules.
First off, some of the artwork from the original modules is reused, but there is new artwork throughout SotS. And while I am not an artist myself, I can state with certainty that the artwork by Ron and Val Lakey Lindahn was not very good. Borderline terrible. Basically, the humanoids you are fighting throughout the series appear to be muppets. This absolutely detracts from my enjoyment of the module as a DM, in that it takes you out of the atmosphere of dread that is trying to be built up by the ruthlessness of the slavelords.
While I liked any additional information about the Pomarj that was provided, there was not enough in my opinion. Having a better regional map, city maps, and descriptions of the Pomarj would have helped in giving more options to players as they made their way through the adventure. As it stands, the plot is a little too linear and that is why there is not so much added details.
I will say this though, the description of what the slavers would do to the party when they are captured (and according to the supermodule as written, they will be captured fairly early in the module, before even getting to A1's beginning) is absolutely brutal and chilling. The party would have their possessions taken away with good aligned magic items tossed into the sea, the characters would be forced as galley rowers, and may find themselves taken many days of time to escape - if at all.
This leads me to my next point, A4 was about the party using their wits to escape from capture by the slavelords. Essentially, SotS has the party be captured twice if you stick to the plot points of the original modules. That certainly would motivate the party to hate the slavelords all the more, but getting stripped and humiliated twice may serve more to deflate your players, rather than motivate your characters. If the party is starting this supermodule right after ToEE, chances are that they are of higher level than originally intended (A1 was written as for levels 4-7; ToEE can take a party beyond that with a huge horde of magical treasures to boot), and thus less likely that the shanghaiing scenario would successfully work as written without the DM forcing the issue. So tact is required if you run SotS as it is written - I would not use the first capture event, just have the party be able to fight them off rather than lumber them, and then run the rest of the module as is.
The ending gets a little muddled, as A4 originally has the party being captured and thrown into some caverns to fight their way out. But you may opt to have the party just fight it out as opposed to being captured at the end of A3 - but that raises additional problems with matching up the activities of A4. Again, the Dm would have to put some thought as to how to tailor SotS to their PCs.
So how does the whole thing stack up? I will summarize in my next post.
My son had one of his drawings accepted for publication in the super-module, SotS.
That is very cool! You are talking about the hardback reprinting of A1-4 with A0 included, correct? Against the Slavelords? If it is the drawing I think it was, I think it was better than what was put in SotS! There were a lot of familiar names in the fan art section of that book so that is certainly a tribute to the talent base of the fans.
I would delete the auto-loss at the end of A3 and give the PCs a chance to win. Auto-loss is all well and good for tournament play, but not very suitable for a campaign.
If the PCs win, you can skip the running nekkid through the dungeons part and go straight to Suderham getting wrecked, making appropriate changes to the end boss encounter.
If the PCs lose, you have a ready-made mini-adventure to cover their escape. Otherwise, save it for another campaign where the players mess up and you want to give them a chance to escape.
For the initial capture, I would seriously consider deleting that as well, or saving the entire super-adventure for a time when they get captured and simply use that to transition into this.
Basically, I dislike auto-anything scenarios. There is railroading and then there is railroading, and just imposing such is not something I, or any of my players, have been particularly happy with.
All the tournament modules suffer from the same issue of how to deal with the contrived dropped-directly-into-the-action starting point. I've found it best to use the set pieces and ignore the beginning and end.
My son had one of his drawings accepted for publication in the super-module, SotS.
That is very cool! You are talking about the hardback reprinting of A1-4 with A0 included, correct? Against the Slavelords? If it is the drawing I think it was, I think it was better than what was put in SotS! There were a lot of familiar names in the fan art section of that book so that is certainly a tribute to the talent base of the fans.
It is a pencil drawing of a half-orc warrior. The NPC is a guard listed in Secret of the Slavers Stockade, IIRC. My son wanted a subject that was unlikely to be chosen by a dozen other artists for their submission.
First off, I am/was a big fan of the A1 to A4 series. They were very Greyhawk in setting and tone, captured the spirit of good fighting against evil, introduced genuinely memorable villains worth defeating, and spawned numerous sequels and adventure hooks. But in looking just within the four corners of SotS as written, I was a little disappointed that the wraparound/additional information were not more robust.
The connection with ToEE is very minimal. The set up was that a local hero is planning a party and these now famous adventurers are to be her guests. Dame Gold is never really described, so it will be up to the DM to make her meaningful to the party. As others have pointed out, if this really is the same party from ToEE, chances are there levels are way beyond A1 and A2 as written, so that will require some work to adjust.
There are encounters with the slavelords and their raids before SotS even gets to the A1 adventure. I could have used some more detailing of the city of Highport and the Pomarj. What we got were random encounters and geomorphs. Some of these issues were addressed in later products, but from what we have in SotS, that is a letdown. But the description of the cities certainly gives off a good atmosphere of humanoid occupation and corruption. So while we did not get new maps, we at least got some more information.
I did like the plot points about having different slavelords try to pit these obviously skilled adventurers against their rivals. Certainly, a good DM can expand on that.
Minor annoyances with some of the details: Elredd's description is different than Fate of Istus (I think we get around that by using SotS as Port Elredd, while FoI described Elredd as an inland city with different leadership - FoI came later so maybe it is the one that should be criticized more), Dame Gold's mission to the party is really just a hook to get the party to feel some sort of obligation towards her and again can be easily modified by a DM. But my point about minor annoyances is that in a over 100 page product in which most of the information is a reprint, why couldn't we get more bang for our buck?
So overall, the strength of SotS is based on its original materials. The adventures are certainly products of tournament design, but that is part of the series' charm. I think it is important if you are a collector/completionist (I certainly am) to get this product. But if you have A1-4 in another product, you miss very little if you do not have SotS.
I give this three stars out of five. But it is funny in which I believe that compiling them together lowers my ratings - I would give the original modules higher ratings separately. In this case, the whole is less than the sum of its parts.
An excellent and quite fair review.
One point I would like to highlight for additional commentary is this:
Osmund-Davizid wrote:
Some of these issues were addressed in later products, but from what we have in SotS, that is a letdown.
I agree. At most I would note that it is rather inherent to the nature of the adventures. They are converted tournament modules, thrust into close to a sandbox situation, in an era where all of the elements were new. As a result, we wind up with a string of console game patches rather than ever getting a single cohesive and complete product.
Does that mean the material should not be critiqued without considering the original adventures, the supermodule, the later Slavers product, and a dozen other add-ons for the series directly and the regions it takes place in?
No. Each product exists and should be considered on its own, and Osmund-Davizid does an excellent job with Scourge.
It does, however, mean that people really wanting to get the most out of it must choose between collecting everything or doing their own significant development. And, as it inevitably must go, even if collecting everything will still require such development. That is something anyone reading this should bear in mind when considering it and questing for additional "official" material.
As I stated earlier, A1-4 is a classic series of modules. SotS itself was ranked as #20 in Dungeon Magazine's top 30 greatest adventures of all time. So clearly this series has its fans. Evidence of the staying power of the series is the amount of follow on materials related to the slavelords, published both officially and unofficially.
First, the is Joseph Bloch's classic article "See the Pomarj - and Die!" from Dragon Magazine # 167. This is history of the area, gazetteer, and a description of the slavelords overall plans all put together. Required reading, in other words!
TSR published Slavers in the year 2000, set ten years after the events of A4. I unofficially refer to this product as A5 and wholeheartedly recommend it. This is what I was wanting with SotS - more details filling in the spaces in between the modules. There are details on the cities all across the Wooly Bay and the Pomarj, and they refer to the aforementioned article from Dragon, making that canonical. So already we have more lore for this area that you can incorporate into any campaign against the slavelords.
In 2013, TSR released a hardback book "Against the Slavelords", with A1-4 reprinted with none of SotS's wraparound materials, but with a prequel module A0 'Danger at Darkshelf Quarry' included. This extra adventure, along with a section of fan art, makes this book worth picking up. If you had a choice between this book and SotS, I would advise that you pick up this one instead. A0 is a pretty solid low level adventure in and of itself, and can serve to introduce the slavelords to a low level party.
Other follow-ups came out in the pages of Dungeon Magazine - in Issue # 221 is 'Lowdown in Highport' that you can also use as a lead up to A1. In Dungeon # 215 is 'The Last Slavelord', a place where one of the evil leaders has set up to resurrect themselves. Both of these are obviously done in a later edition format, but can add to the background lore.
Finally, there is a third party publisher that did a series of follow-ups based on one of the most interesting villains to come from this series. Markessa was introduced in A2, and in Slavers was revealed to still be around, creating duplicates of herself as low level bosses of the slavelords. As an elf, Markessa is in a unique position as she can lay low for decades of game time and reappear to bedevil the forces of good. Casl Entertainment has currently five modules in this series to pit a new generation of adventurers seeking the end the foul existence of Markessa and the slavelords.
So there it is, if I missed any follow-on materials, please comment. I love this series and have used a lot of the materials in my own campaigns. So have at them!
Other follow-ups came out in the pages of Dungeon Magazine - in Issue # 221 is 'Lowdown in Highport' that you can also use as a lead up to A1. In Dungeon # 215 is 'The Last Slavelord', a place where one of the evil leaders has set up to resurrect themselves. Both of these are obviously done in a later edition format, but can add to the background lore.
Actually, both “The Last Slave Lord” and “Lowdown in Highport” were published as AD&D adventures (with 4E conversion notes).
DMPrata is right - I assumed that due to the age of the issues that they were of a later edition. Looks like Dungeon threw a bone to us folks who still stick to 1st edition! That makes these adventures all the cooler, I must try to get these into a new adventure!
I also thought of a couple other odds and ends about the slavelords modules that bugged me. In SotS, they change the name of the pirate lord Feetla in A3 to Eanwulf. The stats are the same, so it appears to be the same guy. Brother Kerin does not appear in SotS, but that absence may be explained by the editing to the end of A3 and A4 in SotS.
This question has to do with the original modules: why is it that there is a Willingham illustration on the back cover of A4 clearly showing a fight with a vampire when there is no such encounter in the module? Was it just a fake out, or was it planned to occur and just never got entered into the final product?
Nice review. I didn't even think about the early introduction of the drow spoiler.
My main cons to SotSL are:
1) captured twice railroad mechanism
2) inflated encounters for higher-level characters, losing the 4th-7th-level charm of the originals
3) supermodule chronology breaks Gygax canon and the demon plots in T1-4/GDQ
4) drow spoiler
But I rather like the extra content.
I'd love to see reviews of the other late eighties supermodules, in addition to what you currently have planned: In Search of Adventure, Realms of Terror, and Egg of the Phoenix.
Osmund-Davizid wrote:
So there it is, if I missed any follow-on materials, please comment.
Yea, there's a few more:
Vesicant (Dungeon 16) is an unofficial but obvious homage sequel/companion module.
Crossbows & Crossbones - RPGA Adventurer's Guild
Besides CASL entertainment, Pacesetter Games has many Slave Lord sequels. Originally they released three tournament modules, distributed at conventions in plain folders with sticker covers. The first two later got professionally printed:
A1) Path of the Slave Masters
A2) Sanctuary of the Slave Masters
A3) War of the Slave Masters (convention folder only)
The Pacesetter series was later expanded and republished as Path of the Vanished, which includes an offshot product or two IIRC.
Thanks for the additional information! A1-4 has certainly left its legacy, as measured by the adventures it has inspired.
I would be remiss in not following up with some more information from T1-4 and the follow on articles and adventures for that series. So here are a few more resources for those modules.
Dragon Magazine had a series of articles at the end of its run called "History Checks". They were partly looks back on classic early edition NPC's, adventures, and settings; they were also partly revisions/updates to the lore. For the T1-4 series, in Dragon Magazine Issue # 423, the Inn of the Welcome Wench is given this treatment, and in Issue # 425 the Temple of Elemental Evil itself is given the historical retrospective. Check these out for more information that you may want to incorporate into your adventures.
In Dungeon Magazine, an updated T1 was done in Issue 212, and the Battle of Emridy Meadows is an adventure in the last issue of Dungeon, 221. Finally, there was a book of evil elemental spells in Dragon 347 that is tangentially related to ToEE. Again, this may provide some detail if you want to expand on existing materials.
These have been great reviews overall, but this latest focus has taken the cake. I identified a couple of Living Greyhawk modules that derive from the Slavelords, including COR7-05 City of Malice and COR 7-19 Wrath of the Slavelord. (I've not played them so can't opine on their quality but wanted to add to the thread.)
Now I come to the big one - GDQ1-7. Queen of the Spiders!
This is going to be a hard one to review. It is in the same format as ToEE and SotS - that is it is a 128 page book. The map section and monster stats insert is a little longer at 24 pages, but it is strange to me that TSR would attempt to publish seven modules worth of material in the same page count as SotS - which only had four modules to draw upon. So right off the bat, there is not a lot of room to make any additional bridging information or new matters in the set format. That may be an issue with how to evaluate this supermodule.
The supermodule itself was published in 1986, the capping off of a continuity that was started in ToEE. As described above, the linkage between ToEE and SotS was not very strong, but if you use the character of Edralve from SotS as a link between that organization and the drow attempting to recruit the giants, there is at least a common background to these adventures that can be played up by the DM, should they so desire.
The original modules were published starting back in 1978, with G1 being the first TSR adventure module published. That makes these adventures classics in every sense of the word. This series was voted the number one module of all time by Dungeon Magazine, so does this format do the adventures justice?
The continuity between SotS and this supermodule were better than the ToEE-SotS handover. First off, the levels of the characters were more appropriate to pick up and start with then they were transitioning from ToEE to SotS. Next, the idea that the slavelords were also a part of Eclavdra's plot to gain wealth and power from the surface world is a good idea to me. Having a drow slavelord, described as an exile from Erelhei-Cinlu, sounds like a lackey of the rebel Eclavdra. While some verbage in QotS makes it sound like the drow are the slavelords masters, I think that overstates the case. But having a trickle of funds coming to the drow from the slavelords operations in addition to the giant raids, makes their plot more global and suitably epic for a major undertaking.
One welcome point is that the new interior art by George Barr is much better than that in SotS. There is not much original art, most of the artwork is from the original modules. But what is in there is serviceable.
As far as new material goes, the big new idea is trying to give the party a reason to continue to chase the drow into the underdark - that Lolth herself is attempting to invade Sterich. This is the "Lolth's Bubble" gambit that has been debated amongst the Greyhawk faithful for years. I, for one, like the concept and it gives a reason for the party to oppose the Lolth faction of the drow and not just the Eclavdra faction.
The evil magic of Lolth is enveloping the city of Istivin within a bubble of darkness. It is through this bubble that Lolth's army will invade. I used this concept to explain just how so many humanoids and giants were able to invade the lands (I have enough suspension of disbelief to buy into a lot of magical beasties, but I never found it plausible to me that quite so many giants could be living in the Crystalmists - the food sources and living areas seemed too small to support such a large giant population. So having an army come from an otherplanar source makes this concept make more sense to me.).
Another new bit was the lead up to involving the characters. A surviving slavelord is enacting a plot to get their vengeance on the party that defeated them. This is a six page prologue that brings your party to the start of the series is a much better effort than the one in SotS. Also, the introduction of the NPC Lashton as the King's Agent was a good one to me. That character served as a foil for my PCs for many years following this introduction, and can serve a similar role in your campaigns.
So there is some nice new materials in QotS. Again, I am just looking at the supermodule aspect of this product, not the original adventures themselves. So there are some good ideas here.
As for the bad parts of QotS - really the worst critique of this supermodule is that there is not a lot of room to put in any extra information. This makes the possession of QotS not a necessity when it comes to Greyhawk lore.
The prologue is all new, bridging SotS with this supermodule. There are a few tweaks throughout the GDQ adventures themselves - mostly naming some of the NPCs and creatures which were to this point nameless (They even give the pets of the giant bosses little names! I like that, gives a bit more character to the NPCs - who knew that Chief Nosnra would allow a cave bear named 'Snookums' to grace his steading?) and some other minor edits. There is an Appendix that gives some thumbnail sized sketches of additional adventure locations in the Underdark.
All those things are appreciated, but this is a product that could have used some more points to be fleshed out. All I am asking for is about five to ten pages giving some more scraps of the Vault of the Drow, maps of the same, or more plot points behind the schemes of the drow noble houses, or other such adventure hooks.
As I mentioned earlier in these threads, my reviews are on the products as they are, not as they can be modified and expanded. So I have to take away some points on this supermodule just because there is not a lot, other than for the original adventures themselves, to really recommend to someone justifying the purchase of the product. Nowadays, with really cheap pdfs available, this is not really much of an issue. But if you do not have an original copy and are scouring the internet for such a thing, do it for collecting sake, not in hopes of getting a ton of new material.
I am kinda going to go against my rules by stating that - as written - this supermodule does not have enough new materials to rank it much higher than the modules separately. That, having been said, the source modules are some of the most classic D&D modules of all time. Adding any more information, even to the slightest degree does not detract from what has come before.
So while I knocked on SotS for some of the same issues, I simply cannot downgrade QotS because the material is just too good. Again, if you are trying to get a physical copy for the additional materials, shop smartly. But in the era of cheap pdfs, get yourself a copy of this and integrate this supermodule into your campaigns!
A measure of just how seminal this series of adventures became is evidenced by the amount of spin offs, sequels, inspirations, follow-ons, homages, that have been produced officially, unofficially, and completely fan-made. And QotS has those in bunches!
Going over each major sequel would take far more time than I can spend. I saw on the internet that vestcoat compiled a pretty exhaustive list of sequels and spin offs - that is a good place to start. I want to go over a couple of the Giant series additions (major ones and obscure) now, I will have another post about the D series spin-offs later.
Frist, the official second edition sequel was The Liberation of Geoff, sometimes referred to as G4. This has mostly information about the Lost Land of Geoff as well as G1-3 in 2nd ed upgrades. One additional plot point is adding in a cloud giant tribe that is controlling the fighting from the air. You can meld in that bit with the drow, I prefer to keep them as the masterminds and making the cloud giants just another ally in my head canon.
Another retelling of the G series was in Dungeon Magazines issues 197-200. These were 4th edition stats with a new adventure with the stone giants added in. I have never used it other than to add in a bit of extra flavor lore, but you may use it as you like.
Finally, on to an obscure one: at the Codex of Greyhawk, there is a section called "The Geoff Project". This was fan made from back in the day! Largely a version of Geoff with more Celtic vibes than the official materials, with an alternate explanation behind the Grayhawk Wars and how the lands were lost.
In my campaigns, I combined the G1-3 series with the Greyhawk Wars, it appears that the official canon seems to make these two separate events, but I see the actions of your PCs in G1-3 blunts the giant attacks so much that you save the Yeomanry, but lose Sterich and Geoff (the former mostly through having Lolth sending in humanoid armies through her bubble reinforcing the giants). I used information from the Geoff Project to explain the loss of Geoff (you see, there is a powerful group of humans aiding the drow in the far-off lands of Geoff).
So check out the Geoff Project and see if you want to incorporate any of it into your materials. This is still one of my all time favorite fan made Greyhawk add-ons. It is availabe here:
Again, the measure of the influence of a module is reflected in the volume of fan made and official sequels, additions, and spin-offs produced. The D series from QotS and the final module Q1 had their share of additional resources. I will list some of them here in this forum, but if I miss any, please feel free to add them.
First, there was a fan made series of mini adventures that took place in the Underdark, adding in encounters that were placed in the DM map. This was a collective effort, started on the Dragonsfoot forums, called “D4 Encyclopedia Subterranica”. This was a grand idea, fleshing out the map from the D series with a wide variety of underground adventures. Maldin has kept it on his website, it is available here:
Maldin also has a wonderful map of the underdark that accounts for many adventures in the area, color coded by the depths of the encounters. This is a must have, check out his site if you have not already done so, it is required reading for the Greyhawk fan!
The stalwart Greyhawk Grognard made up a couple of modules expanding the city of Erelhei-Cinlu, giving more motivation for the players to oppose the Elder Elemental God faction of the drow, and putting the EEG involved in the climax of the series. Check them out, along with an expansion to the G series as well, here:
It goes without saying to encourage you to check these out at first opportunity!
Dragonsfoot had an alternate Q1 module, called “Skein of the Death Mother” that takes the title “demonweb pits” more literally as another look at Lolth’s final encounters. I am linking to the entire Dragonsfoot module section here, as there are a ton of materials for you to check out, to include some of Len Lakofka’s Lendore expansions and other 1e goodness. Again, if you have not already been on this site, get on it!
Oerth Journal # 14 had an expanded look at the city of the drow by Russell Bird. Dragon Magazine had an article in Issue 298 detailing more of the city, and another article with more NPCs in Issue 300 (in the Living Greyhawk Journal number 16 section). The drow as a race are analyzed in Issue 129. In my campaign, I used the adventure in Dragon 131 as a method to get my party back on track when my PCs were dumped into the river by a mad kuo toa ferryman from D2.
The list goes on, again, I cannot do justice to all the great works out there. Both fanon and canon have a lot of add on materials for QotS that you can incorporate into adventuring in this supermodule.
As a final point, this supermodule may represent Gary Gygax’s greatest contribution to the fantasy genre. Any module, adventure, campaign or other matter dealing with the drow is, in essence, a spin-off/sequel to this series, making QotS not only one of the best D&D adventures ever, but also a key piece of fantasy literature.
Do yourself a favor by checking out these and other resources and make the QotS campaign your own.
A link to vestcoat’s list/site would be appreciated
That is the problem - I have no idea where I got this! So vestcoat, if you are out there, if you can jump in and let us know where to get your Against the Giants research, that would be very beneficial for the good of the order! And most appreciated!
As an added bonus, I will do a review of the collected S Series in S1-4 Realms of Horror (RoH).
This really is not a supermodule per se, as there is no attempt to link any of these modules together and there is no connection between any of them. RoH is just a collection of the S Series in one 79 page book with a map insert and an illustration book. It was published in 1987, after the other supermodules, so I think it reflected a choice to republish batches of adventures.
Did this product do justice to the originals? One factor that plays into my review is going to be that, at the time I bought this supermodule, I only owned S1 The Tomb of Horrors. My knowledge of S2, S3, and S4 came from their depictions in this product. As I go through my review, this will factor in to how I view it as a whole.
So I will publish my thoughts on this one over the next few days, hopefully it will spark some more discussion as we go.
You forgot Against the Giants Silver Anniversary supermodule, the combination of G1-G3 with added information on the Giants conquest of Geoff and the fight to defeat the Sakhat led by Cloud Giant Queen Goroda.
I've been running aspects of this, along with a heavy helping of Living Geoff stuff and my own subplots, for almost four years now.
Theala, what edition are you using for Liberation of Geoff? One of my concerns with it is the shoddy 2e conversion, with the author simply swapping 1e giants for 2e giants with no other modifications.
PC's with access to the entire line of 2e splat books, like Skills and Powers and priest rules in The Scarlet Brotherhood, might have equivalent power creep to keep up with the giants, but then the other monsters are too weak.
-
Osmund, looking forward to Realms of Terror!
For the time it came out, this was a welcome item. Re-publications of older modules were few and far between back in the day. So for those of us who came into the hobby after the first generation of modules were released, this was the great opportunity to get those modules you may have missed.
There were some "blink-and-you-miss-them" minor edits throughout that are nice, but nothing that really adds to any of the adventures. If you are collecting physical copies, you may appreciate having this one as a way of saving space or else to use it at the tabletop and keeping your old copies safe. I did appreciate having two sets of inserts for the maps and the illustrations.
That is really about it, in the present time in which you can get an electronic copy of the old modules and print on demand, you can get all the old materials without having to get a compilation. So the value of this product is limited. I will get to the negatives in a moment.
Not to be too negative, but there really is no reason to have this product! Realms of Horror consolidates four modules together, but as mentioned above, there is no relation between any of them. There was no new information linking any of the modules, and really very little new material at all.
The biggest negative though, is what was taken out. Especially in modules S3 and S4, there were editing choices that made the adventures worse. I will explain...
Expedition to the Barrier Peaks is an adventure classic because of the art. Both the official illustration handouts and the little artwork scattered throughout the module are the best parts of S3. Especially for me, the artwork helped me visualize what exactly the alien artifacts were and how they were to be used. In RoH, some of the illustrations are not included (there are 63 numbers illustrations in S3, only about 40 in RoH). and in S3 some were even colored. So there is certainly a loss for S3, and, as there is very little incidental art in the RoH books themselves, so all you get are the handout illustrations. Not maximizing those illustrations is a sore point.
S4 also suffers from a loss of the pictures throughout. Now that I have the original modules, I see all the flavor and atmosphere I have missed. There was a ton of (at the time) new monsters described in S4. Now I can get why they were not included in RoH, to save space and by the time RoH was released, these creatures were in the Monster Manual II. So this is annoying.
But the big grief I have with S4's depiction in RoH has to do with the ending, specifically the treasure. That is, there is no wondrous artifact present at the very end! Somehow, Daoud's Wondrous Lanthorn is not included in the treasure of S4 in RoH! No explanation is given, but there is a non-magical lanthorn in its place. Maybe the intent was to make it seem non-magical until triggered? Anyway, a major item was not included in the RoH version of S4.
If that was not enough, one major piece of Greyhawk lore was also left out - in RoH the Demonomicon of Iggwilv was entirely omitted! In the build up to this module, the Caverns of Tsojcanth were supposed to hold the lost treasures of Iggwilv, and while Drelnza certainly qualifies as such, a copy of the Demonomicon is an epic level item that has so much potential in a campaign that its omission, in my opinion, degrades the entire product.
These omissions, some understandable due to space, some inexplicable from a game perspective, makes me decide that the negatives of RoH outweigh any positive, and unless you really want a complete product set, you can skip this one.
The biggest negative though, is what was taken out. [snip]
But the big grief I have with S4's depiction in RoH has to do with the ending, specifically the treasure. That is, there is no wondrous artifact present at the very end! [snip] If that was not enough, one major piece of Greyhawk lore was also left out - in RoH the Demonomicon of Iggwilv was entirely omitted!
I haven’t gone back to validate this yet, but my recollection is that the S4 wilderness encounters in S1-4 were expanded a bit, with names added to monsters and NPCs, and some new/additional info added in some encounters too. I don’t recall a lot of it adding a lot of value, but do recall noting that when I reviewed it.
Do you recall seeing that level of change in the wilderness entries?
Allan. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
I haven’t gone back to validate this yet, but my recollection is that the S4 wilderness encounters in S1-4 were expanded a bit, with names added to monsters and NPCs, and some new/additional info added in some encounters too. I don’t recall a lot of it adding a lot of value, but do recall noting that when I reviewed it.
Thanks so much for mentioning this! I just started running S4 now, but haven't read Realms of Horror in years. Sure enough, it expands the wilderness encounters a fair amount, selecting some for the trail terminals on the player map and fleshing them out as more important "lairs." Nice extra bit of info on the tribesmen and others.
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