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Canonfire :: View topic - some thoughts on druids, the Flan and Ur-Flan, and Flan gods
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some thoughts on druids, the Flan and Ur-Flan, and Flan gods
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Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:15 am  
some thoughts on druids, the Flan and Ur-Flan, and Flan gods

I view druids as animists, meaning they don’t really worship gods so much as interact with nature spirits. Spells are not bestowed by higher powers, as clerical magic is. Instead it arises from understanding the natural world, and from pacts and favors granted by denizens of the spirit world.

With that in mind, I think the evolution of the modern Flan culture makes a lot of sense if seen as arising as a counter to the Ur-Flan necromancer/summoner domination of proto-Flan tribes. The earliest Flan were ruled by those manipulating unlife and bargaining with otherworldly spirits, so naturally their rivals focused on the power of life and pacts Oerthly spirits. No grand campaign pitting the two against each other for the Flanness occurred. Though individual Ur-Flan lords of magic might have more direct power, the study and sorcerous growth needed to breach planar boundaries was long and difficult. Druids came into power earlier and easier, and their methodology prepared them to co-operate more easily than their power-hungry competitors. Druidic powers were also more useful to the commoners, so what is now called the Old Faith spread quickly through the populace.

This also explains why so many of the Flan gods were once evil mortals. Iuz, Kyuss, and Vecna were all Ur-Flan that ascended. Of the other Flan gods, they’re easily rewritten to fit this. Beory is basically Gaia, the greatest of Oerth spirits. Obad-Hai is an ascended druid (possibly the first druid?), neatly explaining why his priests have crossover druid/cleric spells in the old Guide to the World of Greyhawk. A sun god/spirit is very in keeping with the animist faith, explaining Pelor’s origins. Probably there ought to star and moon deities, as well. Berei is the sort of god that gets quickly adopted by a people transitioning to an agricultural economy, either appropriated from another culture or created as an extension/aspect of Beory. The Earth Dragon is probably a Flan spirit that grew great through sacrifices. It also explains why the Earth Dragon faith is limited to the area near Mt. Flamenblutt, as a nature spirit it’s influence is limited to the area it which it resides. Rao is, admittedly, a very difficult god to fit into this pantheon, and is probably best moved to either the common pantheon.

Just how I conceive of things in my version of Greyhawk.
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Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:37 am  

Not a bad way of looking at things when it comes to the Flan gods.
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Sun Aug 11, 2024 8:15 pm  

I like what you've described. In my view, however, the Old Faith would preceded, or perhaps be contemporary with the origins of the Ur-Flan.

Regarding your query about Flan star and moon deities, in the Canonfire! Discord channel, Woesinger recently quoted the start of the history section in Veluna's entry in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer:

"The Word of Incarum, the most holy scripture
to the adherents of Rao, teaches that the Lord of
Peace granted the humans of Oerth the moons
Celene and Luna, that they might gain guidance
from the tyranny and darkness of an Age ruled by
dread Tharizdun. When the Oeridian hordes surged
east prior to the Twin Cataclysms, one tribe, the
Vollar, came upon a large congregation of primitive
Flan who dwelled in the lowlands between the easternmost
reach of the Velverdyva and the great eastern
bend of the lower Fals River. These Flan greeted
the settlers warmly, welcoming their new brothers
to the "Vale of Luna," most sacred of all lands protected
by Rao."
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Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:38 am  

mtg wrote:
I like what you've described. In my view, however, the Old Faith would preceded, or perhaps be contemporary with the origins of the Ur-Flan.


If my post somehow implied that the Old Faith arose after the Ur-Flan, I apologize for the confusion. I envision it as rising to prominence in parallel with the Ur-Flan sorcerers. Probably it existed in some fashion before that as well, just as knowledge of undeath and outer planar creatures existed before the Ur-Flan. I imagine that period as a consolidation of two cultural directions the proto-Flan evolved into, with one fork (the Ur-Flan) eventually failing in competition to the other (the druidic Flan).

Re: Rao, that's very interesting. He'd make a lot more sense in an animist faith if he was originally associated with the moons, even if he lost that part of his portfolio before modern times. I may take that and run with it.

Sadly, the time of Living Greyhawk I wasn't playing d&d, so I missed out on a lot of the evolution of the GH history. TBH, I wasn't playing much of anything. A house full of kids leaves you with little time for anything else!
CF Admin

Joined: Jul 28, 2001
Posts: 700
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Tue Aug 13, 2024 7:48 pm  

I like your ideas about the proto-Flan and parallel rise to prominence of what we call the Old Faith and Ur-Flan.

A recent Discord conversation (can't recall if it was in the Canonfire! or Greyhawk Online channel), reminded me of Rob Kuntz's Dark Druids module, which was evidently published in several versions, 2002, 2006, and 2015. See http://www.chaotichenchmen.com/p/dark-druids-by-robert-j-kuntz.html.

It might prove generative for your ideas about the prehistoric Flan knowledge of undeath and outer planar creatures.
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