This is a comment I was preparing for GVD's article "Lords of Geometry - The Platonic Solids Revisited." However, I figured it might attract more attention if I bring it in this column.
GVD in overall did a good job on extending my canonfire! article “Artifacts of the Multiverse: the Platonic Solids.”
My original piece drew from Plato’s Timaeo. Timaeo is a classic text, dated back to the days of the ancient Greek scholar Plato (end 4th century B.C.), containing cosmological investigations. Plato asserted that everything is made of five constituents/elements in various proportions. These elements are the five regular polyhedra which were named after Timaeo as “Platonic solids.” Since Plato, there has been a formal proof that there exist only five convex regular polyhedra and these are the Platonic solids. Actually, these regular solids are the dice we use to play our game. Since our game is based on these regular and elegant dice, and game mechanics are being conducted through the dice, it is natural to imbue them with certain powers for the purposes of the game. So, I figured they should be artifacts of the multi-verse, in line with their function per Plato. It is clear that Plato’s intention was to associate each solid with an element, water, fire, air, earth, and ‘ether’ (not to be necessarily directly related to the ethereal plane of existence).
GVD moved a step ahead. He included the later discovered Kepler-Poinsot regular concave (non-convex) polyhedra. There happen to be only four regular concave polyhedra, but these are formal constructs and cannot as such be as easily pictured as the Platonic solids. The Platonic solids, together with the Kepler-Poinsot regular concave polyhedra, sum for nine regular (convex or not) polyhedra. GVD associated them with the nine alignments.
I generally agree with GVD’s tendency to assign the Platonic solids good alignment, while assigning evil alignment to the Kepler-Poinsot polyhedra. The association with alignments is not a bad one, but I would have probably done it differently. For example, there exist nine dimensions in the World of Greyhawk. But I would also certainly stick to Plato’s conception to associate the solids with the elements. This allows considering aspects of Greyhawk, for instance ToEE, EEG, the philosophical dispute between easterner (from Flanaess part) and westerner (Utter West part) philosophers (“Five Dragon Bowl” Gygax story). Note that the EEG symbol is the projection of tetrahedron!
In case GVD or anybody else finds the above ideas interesting, I would like to inform people that I do work on these ideas and to acknowledge that I am open to collaborations:)
In any case, maybe some discussion can be incited.
Tzelios! I always find your posts extremely thought provoking.
I like the idea of the Eastern vs Western elemental associations. To correspond with the elemental associations, I am imagining the five classical Platonic Solids would have to be assigned to Western philosophy, while the four Kepler-Poinsot solids would have to be assigned to Eastern philosophy. To say nothing of Five Dragon Bowl.
If we tend to keep to a positive or "good" association with the Platonic Solids and a negative or "evil" association with the Kepler-Poinsot Solids, what would that say about the philosophies of West and East?
Not discarding that idea, if we also think in terms of existence and non-existence, as I postulated coordinate to the alignment tendencies of the Solids, perhaps Eastern philosophy is existential while Western philosophy is analytical (specifically logical positivism and, perhaps, logical empiricism)?
Existential philosophy would correspond to "non-existence" in its capacity to imagine a viable non-existent state. Analytical philosophy would correspond to "existence" in its insistence on the objective or observable.
This could have profound implications for the development of the West in game design but an Eastern philosophy that is existential would, I think, easily accomodate the Flanaess as it has been described. If we were to go this way, I'd think a logical positivism would be preferable to the scientific rigor of a logical empiricism that would utterly deny the metaphysic. This may be more form over subtance, however, and we perhaps should just stict with "analytic" as a good distinction from the existential.
Anyway, we could have actual philosophic debates between East and West, to say nothing of the Baklunish Near West, which would likely take from both philosophic traditions. You da Man!
I also like your mention of the nine dimensions.
I really find this problematic, however. Gygax defines Greyhawkian reality as understandable in terms of length, breadth, height, astrality, etherality, time, probability, extra-conceivability and non-conceivability.
I have two problems with these dimensions.
Astrality and etherality have virtually no real, significant meaning. Extra-conceivability and non-conceivability have too many possible, significant meanings. Probability is also hard to pin down in this way.
The second problem is that there is no clear relationship between the nine dimensions and the multiverse. We should be able to define the multiverse in these dimensions if they really follow from the purely physical length, breadth and height of the Prime Material.
Looking at the multiverse, there are three demarcations (this idea is not original to me, obviously). The Prime Material, the Inner Planes (with which I would also class the transitive Astral and Etheral), and the Outer Planes (which alternatively might lay claim to the Transitive Plains). Each can be principally (but not exclusively because all of the planes of the multiverse interact, or intersect) defined in three dimensions.
The Prime Material Plane is principally defined by length, breadth and height. This might also be called the Physical Plain(s) or the Physical Dimension(s).
The Inner Planes are principally defined by matter, energy and void. This might be called the Hyper-Physical Plain(s) or Hyper-Physical Dimension(s).
The Outer Planes are principally defined by ethos, pleroma (divine magic) and transubstantiation (the "realization" of ethos and/or pleroma, to include an "afterlife"). This might be called the Metaphysical Plain(s) or Metaphysical Dimension(s).
Time, arcana (arcane magic) and consciousness are super-luminal dimensions or omni-dimensions that "frame" the other dimensions or "distort" them, much like gravity may "warp" space.
While defying, or at least not accepting the Gygaxian nine dimensions, the foregoing makes a better attempt to link the "dimensions" with a defination of the known segments of the multiverse - prime, inner and outer planes. If the Gygaxian nine dimensions could be understood to be similarly definational of the planes, I would be faster to adopt them. I have no seen this.
I've wondered off topic but I do like the idea, in theory, of linking the Solids to the dimensions, although that may prove too complicated. Maybe we should stick to the elemental philosophies, which as you note, follows Plato.
These are my thoughts from reading your fascinating post. _________________ GVD
I would suggest we should go first through the sources. Doctor Prosper on the dimensions of the multiverse, SoOC pp71,72, and possible other references on this dimensions subject within the Gord novels or other official sources. Then, read Five Dragon Bowl story together with Mona's notes on Utter West. Then, read Timaeo carefully.
The biggest prank Zagig ever made was to put people on Earth play a wierd game, said scholar Tzeliobas.
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