Oh, I see.
Yeah, it is pretty obnoxious of those people to dive into FR bashing, and to harass the guy because he likes a different campaign setting. Some people still remain too insecure to be able to tolerate different style preferences in others.
I'm with Ivid here. I actually run two campaigns, one Greyhawk and one FR. I have no problem with the Realms per se. However, T1-4/A1-4/GDQ1-7 is the quintessential Greyhawk campaign. Reading the litany of changes this DM was making in order to make the series fit into the Realms was painful. I've seen the ToEE set in Vaasa before, and I didn't think it could be any worse than that -- my mistake.
... it is pretty obnoxious of those people to dive into FR bashing, and to harass the guy because he likes a different campaign setting.
That's too bad, becasue the original poster came up with a good plan to fit T1-4 into the Dale Lands in Forgotten Realms. I looked at my FR map and he made a good geographical fit. I hope he sticks with it, and ignores the nay sayers. I also hope he gets treated well if he does indeed visit Dragonsfoot. _________________ Don (Greyson)
Some people still remain too insecure to be able to tolerate different style preferences in others.
Is this an offense?
I didn't tread that guy with an offensive attitude, nor did I so with you.
Quote:
If I understood him right, he's about to convert all the modules he bought. Of course that's no crime, everyone bastardizes his material in some way, but, really, I'd highly recommend that before one changes an entire series that was meant to fit together, one uses the default campaign world for which it was made for.
Besides, if it works for you, Erudite, I wish you best luck with your campaign!
However, you don't know what you are missing!
:)
But really, isn't it a shame that one who is willing to spend years to convert, adjust and play Greyhawk modules, doesn't switch to the setting of which he borrows so much?
Besides, as you Samwise, who participated in a series of posts where I stated on this, might know, I am no FR basher and did eventually play there.
However, buy ToEE, The A and the D series, and convert them ALL to FR... Why doesn't he start to play WoG already!?
... it is pretty obnoxious of those people to dive into FR bashing, and to harass the guy because he likes a different campaign setting.
That's too bad, becasue the original poster came up with a good plan to fit T1-4 into the Dale Lands in Forgotten Realms. I looked at my FR map and he made a good geographical fit. I hope he sticks with it, and ignores the nay sayers. I also hope he gets treated well if he does indeed visit Dragonsfoot.
Why shouldn't he? It's a nice experiment, but really, in my honest opinion, he doesn'tknow what he's missing!
Besides:
TheDungeonDelver wrote:
I'd like to point out that, via PMs, the author of that message and I a week or so back discussed the merits of various settings and he's decided to set it in Greyhawk (but using the RC).
So nyah! :P
So even the most fundamentalist of all grognards will tread him well... Although with some sort of suspicion...
The discussion has reached the DF board as well... Here some little quotation.
I hope I didn't offend anyone so far. Surely wasn't my intention. So, peace, Master Samwise!
Drexlorn wrote:
Quick explanation of Greyhawk and Forgotten settings for the newb :
Greyhawk :
amount of content --> moderate, can be catalogued.
percentage of useful content --> 95 % (effective tools for a good campaign)
Forgotten realms :
amount of content --> Only God really knows
percentage of useful content --> 10 % (the rest is Elminster's the great oh great wonderful words of wisdom, author's we-dont-care-about babbling and valium-strong material)
But really, isn't it a shame that one who is willing to spend years to convert, adjust and play Greyhawk modules, doesn't switch to the setting of which he borrows so much?
However, buy ToEE, The A and the D series, and convert them ALL to FR... Why doesn't he start to play WoG already!?
Why should he have to? He enjoys FR, and he wants to play "classic" modules in that setting. That's what a good DM does - makes things work for his campaign and his groups' enjoyment.
And I don't mind your multiple posts, but the quote from Drexlorn is just another thinly veiled mindless slam on FR. Whoopie. Forgotten Realms Sucks, Greyhawk Rocks. We've heard it.
Cheers
Nell.
Who, by some people's logic, ought not to be allowed here at all, since he has NEVER gamed in Greyhawk.
Why should he have to? He enjoys FR, and he wants to play "classic" modules in that setting. That's what a good DM does - makes things work for his campaign and his groups' enjoyment.
And I don't mind your multiple posts, but the quote from Drexlorn is just another thinly veiled mindless slam on FR. Whoopie. Forgotten Realms Sucks, Greyhawk Rocks. We've heard it.
I just thought it was funny. Apparently, I was the only one...
Although, I repeat, at least it must be understandable that I as a hardcore hawker lament the lack of interest in *my* setting. That guy may do as he likes, although I personally would not do so.
Now, to be open, I didn't really expect this to go so *serious*. Some minor mockery here and there about the end of the world and the
attitude of friendly neighbourhood realmers, but nothing more. Seems that any reason to flame is as good as any other...
Nellisir wrote:
Cheers
Nell.
Who, by some people's logic, ought not to be allowed here at all, since he has NEVER gamed in Greyhawk.
What a junk. Noone would ever say so.
...But hey, if the next Oerth Journal has a Dark Sun cover, we others know that you might have misinterpreted something.
Just a note. I appreciate Ivid "digesting" this discussion on the Wotc and DF boards, as I don't necessarily range all over. Thanks, Ivid!
I'd personally pay money to see him ask EGG how best to make the conversion.
As for the guy converting quintessential GH to FR, I just had to laugh. Its not a geographical and NPC conversion that is hard, IMO. It is all the "little" things in each adventure that scream GH that will give him fits, if he is doing other than running a monster bash.
As for FR, it has produced its share of "hits" - Cult of the Dragon. Or Cult of Dragotha as I've converted it to GH, IMC. _________________ GVD
yeah, the whole set up is not well suited for the FR. Demon lords like Zuggtmoy really aren't that big a deal there. And the relationship between Zuggtmoy, Lolth, Iuz, and St. Cuthbert that underpins a lot of the story is hard to replicate.
You also have little pitfalls like having a human male cleric of Lolth, which is a no no in the FR (drow females only and she's not grantign spells at the moment anyway, I seem to recall).
The temple concept would also be more directly a threat to certain gods (like Talos and his subordinates) than it is to any GH god.
Still, there is no reason to get on the guy for doing so. While gameworlds have certain inherent biases in their design, ultimately the feel of a campaign comes from the DM, not the source books.
And the relationship between Zuggtmoy, Lolth, Iuz, and St. Cuthbert that underpins a lot of the story is hard to replicate.
Iuz could be easily replaced by Cyric, St. Cuthbert by Helm. The whole idea of converting the module to another setting is making these kinds of changes.
Attacks like those seen on this thread on WotC Forum, while not overly heated, still make Greyhawk fans look like overfanatical jerks.
Let's pretend for a minute that I read and fell in love with the FR adventure City of the Spider Queen and figured that it would be a perfect addition to Erelhi Cinlu in my Greyhawk campaign. Would you then demand that I run it in the Forgotten Realms first, to truly appreciate what the authors of the adventure intended? I'm guessing the answer is no, but it's the same logic being directed at the poor guy over there, and it's ridiculous. _________________ All shall love me and despair!
No, I wouldn't say that, though that storyline (from my 2nd hand information) would not be easily added if you'd already established Erelhei-Cinlu in its 'standard' format.
As for adapting the Temple story, sure it could be done. At its core, its a pretty simple plot: two bad guys team up to found a temple of evil that gets whacked and is rebuilding. However, much of what makes ToEE a great adventure is precisely all the interrelationships and 'big picture' side of it. That will be difficult to replicate, because the big picture of the FR is totally different.
Flaming and all that nonsense (I haven't read those threads) is a waste of time and moronic generally. The supposed quality of the "reason" is pretty irrelevant, imho.
Just a note. I appreciate Ivid "digesting" this discussion on the Wotc and DF boards, as I don't necessarily range all over. Thanks, Ivid!
I'd personally pay money to see him ask EGG how best to make the conversion.
As for the guy converting quintessential GH to FR, I just had to laugh. Its not a geographical and NPC conversion that is hard, IMO. It is all the "little" things in each adventure that scream GH that will give him fits, if he is doing other than running a monster bash.
As for FR, it has produced its share of "hits" - Cult of the Dragon. Or Cult of Dragotha as I've converted it to GH, IMC.
Thanks for the support, GVD.
As you and others said already, it's really hard to so a conversion without having to reduce the module to less more than a default dungeon. Of course, everyone may do as he wishes, although that is, IMHO, crippling one of the best adventures ever done.
As far as the Realms, *The inapproachable east* is a great book! No general critcism her, but really, really, some things just don't work there properly IMHO.
Besides, DMing and playing a module at the same time.
But I butchered Erudite enough... If it works for him, I hold back my mockery.
Flaming and all that nonsense (I haven't read those threads) is a waste of time and moronic generally. The supposed quality of the "reason" is pretty irrelevant, imho.
Very true. After all, what we are talking about is just a hobby. No need to get furious with someone exceot that he does an act of ultimate darkness like use one of my books as toilet paper...
Since the spring of 585 CY there is peace among the dwellers of the Flanaess, for if someone didn't know.
Well, its good to see hat everything reach a good ending. Now my opinion. The guy had his right to convert TToEL or whatever other module to any setting he wants. In fact, i would encourage that, because incentives imagination, and that very good for gamers and DMs.
Maybe i have this opinion because i dont like modules, or i dont give too much importance to them. In fact, i know i go against the current in this fourm whit that idea (i like FtA too, and a lot of people here despise it).
in resume, if the guy wants to do that, let the guy do it. No one will get hurt for that.
Well, its good to see hat everything reach a good ending. Now my opinion. The guy had his right to convert TToEL or whatever other module to any setting he wants. In fact, i would encourage that, because incentives imagination, and that very good for gamers and DMs.
Maybe i have this opinion because i dont like modules, or i dont give too much importance to them. In fact, i know i go against the current in this fourm whit that idea (i like FtA too, and a lot of people here despise it).
in resume, if the guy wants to do that, let the guy do it. No one will get hurt for that.
Just check that thread to see how it turned out...
1)_ The guy ask for advice to transplant that modules to FR.
2)_ All go well un til someone ask why not play the module in his original setting.
3)_ Them begins the FR bashing. The guy try to defend his stance, but the GH fanatics keep hammering whit "nice" words.
4)_ Not nicer words begin, you Ivid try to convince the guy of not playing that modules because they arent for FR, chatdemon try to defend the guy´s stance.
5)_ Then the guy flaps the white flag and play the modules in Greyhawk, and everyones rejoice .
I dont see the problem of the guy playing whatever GH modules in whatever setting he wants. I admit, has a GH fan, that i prefer that the guys have played the modules in GH since the beginning, but i never will push anyone has some on that treath push the guy to play in GH.
Yeah, but please note that it was in a modest and friendly way. I don't want to convince anyone of anything he doesn't want, I just thought it would improve his game. I just wanted to give him a friendly advice.
Besides, when I posted this thread, his last comment was like *Thanks. I'll convert it to the realms.*
No grognarding here anymore, he may do as it works for him. Actually, there are numbers of conversions I saw that were excellent, but they were done by absolute D&D-pros, like tranplanting the ToEE from Hommlet to Blackmoor (the Oerthian one).
And, just to clarify, the original poster asked DungeonDelver (from WotC and DF) for help on the conversion, and, as that apparently didn't work, decided to use Oerth instead of Toril.
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It's a nice experiment, but really, in my honest opinion, he doesn'tknow what he's missing!
attitude 
