Well, CF missed the boat again for a nomination in the 'Best Fan Site' category of the ENnies.
Although I hate to admit it, the ENnies are THE RPG award these days. Gencon has hooked up with them even. Monte has come around as well.
Although there are stacks of bugs and issues with this site, and I have issues with many people here, it's still the best fansite, hands down. It should be in the running.
Who thinks we should encourage the 'powers that be' to make a bid for next year? _________________ In more modern times, only Delglath of Rinloru is known to have crafted any items from the stone of this atrocious place. Even masters of the dark arts such as Xaene and Karoolck would hesitate to follow.
A better use of time and effort would be to create the "Canonistas", a set of awards recognized by this website. We already have the postfests, among other things. Why should we be worried about competing for their recognition?
Why should we be worried about competing for their recognition?
An equally valid point, that also happens to counter that, is: why not? _________________ In more modern times, only Delglath of Rinloru is known to have crafted any items from the stone of this atrocious place. Even masters of the dark arts such as Xaene and Karoolck would hesitate to follow.
I am curious what the criteria for nomination was. Did all it require was one of us to venture over to EN and put CF in the hat? Or is it much more insidious like requiring a longtime, bribing, er donating member to name their favorites?
Why not is because most "awards" like that are caught up in the silliness Mortellan mentions.
I'm sure with sufficient ****-kissing, back room deals, cronyism, and pure ballot stuffing by a select clique such an "award" could be secured, but exactly how much is it worth?
To be (reasonably) fair, I feel the same way about just about all internet, fan-based, polls and awards. They are worth as much as the regular hits your site gets, and reflect little more than how big your personal crowd is. We hardly need an award from anywhere to tell us how many hits the site had last month, how much bandwidth was required to handle all those hits, or how many regular contributors we have.
So in the long run, again, who cares? And why shouldn't Canonfire!, if it is such a relevant site, not have it's own awards? Let people come shmoozing around here to get recognition from us.
I applaud the who-cares attitude, because this IS the best site of its kind. For that very reason, I couldn't participate in a survey that rated all the other websites - this is the only one I ever really read.
Getting nominated is one thing, but at the end of the day, only the Winners get the recognition. No-one remembers Also-Rans (unless they happen to fail spectacularly, e.g. the UK's ski-jumper Eddie (The Eagle) Edwards whose Olympic exploits are the stuff of legend ).
If we did get into the ENnies, how many votes would we need to win? How many could we count on?
It's probably better not to warry about this sort of thing too much. _________________ Accuracy is our watchwurd
A better use of time and effort would be to create the "Canonistas", a set of awards recognized by this website. We already have the postfests, among other things. Why should we be worried about competing for their recognition?
Not sure if this is serious but I kinda like this idea. We could even send the "winners" a filled in "Kinkos certificate" that they could proudly display. Then, announce it all over the web.
Categories -
(1) Best New Greyhawk Product/Publication (Dungeon articles about it)
(2) Best New Pseudo Greyhawk Product (Troll Lords, GH "default" etc.)
(3) Best Non-GH Product that can be adapted to GH
???
We could even have a "awards ceremony" at Gencon or Origins hosted by whomever might be attending and it would double as a CF "get-together" at that con.
>We could even have a "awards ceremony" at Gencon or Origins hosted by whomever might be attending and it would double as a CF "get-together" at that con. <
That might be enough to get me to start attending GenCon again!
I believe ENWorld hosts an entirely different culture of gamers than Canonfire.
I do enjoy the Gygax interview threads ENWorld is fortunate enough to enjoy.
Greyhawk is a gaming essence that spans nearly 30 years.
ENWorld caters to the break-thru era, whereas Canonfire caters to the creativity and the branches of her tree, spawned by what I will call the greater RPG authors.
Canonfire is a place to make and share a world, not be part of concrete and established one. I mean in both the Greyhawkian and community sense.
My point is, screw the ENnies. They are specifically geared towards the mainstream. We, as a community, and Greyhawk, are not mainstream and have not been for over a decade. Yet, we carry on...
The siege engine that does not stop: Canonfire.
Endurance troopers. _________________ Kneel before me, or you shall be KNELT!
I think that additional recognition from an outside source like ENWorld is a fine idea, especially since the awards are done at GenCon and have a fair amount of publicity. Therefore, IMO submitting CF! to the ENNies would be a worthwhile endeavor. That said, I don't have a clue what it takes to win, though I hope to find out (Different Worlds' Valus book is up for two awards---Best Campaign Setting and Best Writing [which is the one I think we have a decent chance at]).
Creating some GH site awards would be a good way to help boost the general visibility of the setting, and would probably be a good way to try to a) learn about new sites that we don't know about already, and b) help spur continued and widespread interest in GH as a game setting. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
What bothers me a bit about the selection of the sites is that I think there's considerable *promotional issue* in it.
The best sites are just not mentioned there, as always, be it *The Fraternity of Shadows* for Ravenloft, Canonfire, Dragonsfoot, The Grognard's Tavern, or the Scarred Lands website...
It's like with every price: It's pretty worthless if one doesn't nominate the right candidates. And as long as they do it to promote some lesser-known games like Midnight, or want to tell the audience that sites simply offering the srd for download are better than theme related sites with tons of free and ready to use material, I can't respect their judgement.
If not this year, CF had deserved a lot of decorations much earlier!
But as Greyhawk doesn't exist anymore for WotC, why should it exist for ENWorld?
Sorry, didn't want to sound p*****, but I can't really understand their reasons for nomination...
Nomination takes little more than someone suggesting it and it being accepted by the judges.
The simple fact of the matter, is that no-one ever suggests CF, or any of the other ones like Dragonsfoot.
Dragonsfoot, though, is pre-3.x, and violently anti-3.x, so I highly doubt they'd ever nominate themselves.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the negativity about this. There is no downside by nominating CF. If CF doesn't get the award, then none of you care, so big deal. If CF gets the award, it's more exposure, and Holian can put a little award symbol on the front page, and confirm that he can no longer get through standard sized doors.
Win-win if you ask me. So why all the bitchiness?
EDITED BY DETHAND 21-7-05 13:20 _________________ In more modern times, only Delglath of Rinloru is known to have crafted any items from the stone of this atrocious place. Even masters of the dark arts such as Xaene and Karoolck would hesitate to follow.
I believe ENWorld hosts an entirely different culture of gamers than Canonfire. . . .ENWorld caters to the break-thru era, whereas Canonfire caters to the creativity and the branches of her tree, spawned by what I will call the greater RPG authors. . . . [The ENies] are specifically geared towards the mainstream. We, as a community, and Greyhawk, are not mainstream and have not been for over a decade.
As part of my fledgling plan to take over the world, I have recently been frequenting the ENWorld site. It is indeed an entirely different place.
There are six levels of posters that I have so far identified:
(1) "Pros," who have published widely recognized RPG products;
(2) "Semi-Pros," who have published the odd product or who run very small, often PDF, presses;
(3) "Cognescenti," who speak in carefully measured, portentous and self-important ways designed to make them appear intellectual and grandly "informed" about gaming;
(4) "Wannabes," who wanna be any of the above;
(5) Fanboys and girls of any of the above, as distinct from the Wannabes; and
(6) "Rabble," in the sense of unwashed masses who read or otherwise post to ENWorld but are in no other category.
There is a distinct "pecking order" that mirrors the above categories with the Pros on top and so on. You speak to your "betters" at your peril and will probably be ignored in most other instances. If you tangle with one of your "betters" the ENWorlders will close ranks and, in the worst cases, you will be banned or a thread closed. "No flames" on ENWorld means no disturbing the pecking order in many cases.
When you speak on ENWorld, you must use a mock-detached voice. The more "intellectual," jaded, "above it all," or snyde you can appear the better. "Me too" posts are accomplished with one sentence "jokes."
To advance within the heirarchy, you must become familiar or "friendly" with those within your present category by trading responses. Once you are "known" within your category, you may offer support to your "betters" in a higher category. You should buttress their opinions or otherwise support them. When they acknowledge you, you have taken the first step toward moving up. With enough of these "suck-up" posts you can become "known" and "recognized" in the next higher category, eventually joining it.
The top 2 categories - Pros and Semi-Pros - are, however, reserved for the "published" and you cannot gain admittance into those circles without being published. If you are "published" and don't mind loudly declaring it, you can jump from Rabble to Semi-Pro immediately.
It is important to know that ENWorlders believe that ENWorld and its posters are VASTLY superior to anyone or anything else on the web. Not just superior but like another species superior - like gods looking down on men, or men looking down or rats. The ENWorld egotism, arrogance and "clubbyness" is unparalled. This should not be confused with the "backslapping" of Dragonsfoot or other "fan worship" sites.
EN World produces precious little creative content - derided as "amateur" in the most condescending sense.
The ENies help validate the ENWorlders. So do ENWorld "events."
I have all but given up on "joining" the ENWorld "community." It is simply not worth the effort and returns to little on the "investment."
EDITED BY DETHAND 21-7-05 13:59
IMHO _________________ GVD
http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=ennies05 _________________ In more modern times, only Delglath of Rinloru is known to have crafted any items from the stone of this atrocious place. Even masters of the dark arts such as Xaene and Karoolck would hesitate to follow.
GVD, I've heard comments like that about rpg.net, the Forge, ENWorld, Canonfire!, Dragonsfoot, WotC boards, Pied Piper, Grognard's Tavern, Knights N Knaves, Necromancer Games, and various other boards on the net: I think a lot of that perception is just that, perception. Folks here are certainly very friendly, and FWIW I've found folks on ENWorld and other boards to be the same, in general. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
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