Hi, all. Okay, the submissions are in for this summer's Postfest Part II, Greyhawk Holidays and Festivals. Give me about thirty-six hours to get them edited formatted and posted. There are about forty submissions, so look forward to reading those by Tuesday evening. Now, regarding the voting on a favorite - how much time do you guys, our Canonfire! guests, patrons and contibutors want to read through and vote on a favorite? The goal is to accommodate our members. So, how much time is enough? A week, two weeks? Let us know. Now, while you wait, it is time to move on to Postfest Part III, Monsters and Other Creautres of Greyhawk. I look forward to your feedback. Thanks, everyone. _________________ Don (Greyson)
Last edited by Greyson on Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Okay, I need one more day, and we shall be ready to view these awesome Greyhawk Holiday Postfest entries. So, look for them late tonight or very early Thursday morning. There will be a link to the articles posted here and on the Canonfire! front page.
Be advised, there will not be any voting on Parts II or III of this Postfest as there has been in previous Canonfire! Postfests. We appreciate hearing your comments. In the meantime, please take your time to read all of the great entries for Part II via the link above. _________________ Don (Greyson)
Not meaning to sound peevish or anything but if I had realized that no one, almost, was going to participate, I would not have bothered. Seeing the entries set out in all their glory, I feel embarrassed and I'm not sure if there is any point in this Postfest or the next. I think these Postfests need a serious rethink.
Maybe there are too many in a year?
Maybe they are being run too close together?
Maybe they shouldn't be run in the summertime?
Maybe there should be a limit on 3 entries per participant, such that no one will feel compelled to go forward with a Postfest that obviously isn't drawing wide support or enthusiasm just because a few people did (instead it can be called off as the present one should have been, IMO)?
I'd suggest the following Postfest modifications:
(1) Two post fests per year -
First Postfest Opens February 1, YYYY, Closes May 1, YYYY
Second Postfest Opens September 15, YYYY, Closes November 15, YYYY
(2) No more than 3 Postfest entries per participant
(3) If one month into the Postfest there are 3 or fewer participants who have submitted material, the Postfest is cancelled
(4) Postfest topics are determined by a Poll posted to CF. Postfest Poll will be run as any other front page poll. Leading topic wins as the next Postfest topic. Postfest Poll opens one month before Postfest is to begin.
I think these steps might focus efforts and enthusiasm. Allow for a resonable cutting of losses in the event of a flop. And work to ensure there will not be flops.
I think the present methodology is broken.
If this is acceptable, to be fair to anyone "counting submissions," I will volunteer to have my entries in the present Postfest pulled from CF. I can always rework and resubmit them as topical entries. Which, in fact, I had planned to eventually do along "Type" lines (see any of my entries Re - Type) until this Postfest was announced.
If unacceptable, I hope someone in charge will yet look to reforming this process just a bit in some fashion. _________________ GVD
Crag, unless I too missed someone, Duicarthan and I, Wolfsire, also sumitted one post each.
Duicarthan, that was a nice piece. Halloween is my favorite holiday. You did a great job explaining, in overview fashion, the variety of ways it is celebrated in Greyhawk. If any of the particular cultures you referenced is dear to your heart, I would love to see Wikrhys, or its equivalent, explained in further detail for that culture.
GVD, I agree with most, if not all, you wrote. I do not know if the present methodology is broken, but certainly this postfest was an unfortunate fluke.
To be critical, I think the number of posts you submitted is distracting. I have not read them yet, and I am looking forward to it as you do top quality work, but the number is just daunting. It may lead to a greater lack of interest in the topic as some may find it too just too much to read. I think it is too many to realisticly compare for voting purposes.
I do not care about “counting submissions” or whether I win a postfest, but I would like to have mine read and see some comments. I would also like to see comments on your. I think that is more likely to happen if yours are consolidated into one post. You are welcome to use mine, and edit it anyway you see fit, if you would like. No offense will be taken if you do not.
Of all your ideas, I think the poll for postfest topics is the best one. Those topics that get second, third, etc. place could be put in the poll for the following postfest. It will encourage participation and it could spin off in forums for discussion of what will be the best topic next time.
I was just downloading GVD's posts and noticed that a couple at the end of the list were missing the disclaimer: "Used with Permission. Do not repost without obtaining prior permission from the author."
To be critical, I think the number of posts you submitted is distracting. . . . It may lead to a greater lack of interest in the topic as some may find it too just too much to read.
I am not going to disagree.
Based on discussions at the Thursday Greychats back in June, I was under the distinct impression that - (1) submissions of 300 to 1000 words were deemed appropriate/preferred; and (2) that people were planning on submitting a significant number of posts. My thought was then to "spread out" my holiday submissions across the Flanaess, which I did. And to look for "gap filler" types of holidays that could again "spread" the sorts of holidays presented, which I again did. I had imagined a total of 70 some submissions by everyone in toto, the 40 I knew I could immediately provide plus 30 some that I thought seemed likely from others as prophisied(sp) by the Greychats.
I was thinking they could all later be edited based on comments and recompiled with a Greyhawk calendar to create a pretty impressive Greyhawk Holiday Calendar PDF. A DM could then use this festive database to add color wherever the PCs might be travelling at a particular time of the Flanaess year or to simply use as adventure dressing or to suggest an adventure. Well, that isn't going to happen but it does explain why I proceeded as I did.
I was thinking lots of relatively short articles that could be tied in/footnoted to a Greyhawk calendar presentation. Maybe even with a map locator too. I was thinking to ask for thoughts after the impressive number of total submissions. Ooops.
In no way do I mean to detract from those, such as yourself, who actually submitted material. Neither do I mean to cast aspersions on anyone who found they could not or were not interested in submitting.
All the same, I feel embarassed for reasons you have identified. I find myself overdressed for the ocassion.
I also find myself frustrated that the system can work this poorly. Hence, I suggested possible fixes. Certainly, I am never going to allow myself to be "caught out" like this again whatever fixes are or are not instituted.
I think the idea of the postfest is grand. In my admittedly limited experience, its execution has been less than ideal, and this is _NOT_ purely a function of those administering it. Execution, by chiefly Greyson I believe, seems to have actually run very well since the first Postfest I participated in. I think rather that there are a number of factors at work that go beyond technical execution. As I understand it, the Postfest developed initially in a very informal manner. While it has now been formalized as a "feature" of CF and in having a "set topic," it remains, however, very informal as regards topic selection, solicitation of participation and administration of participation. Unless one were to go back to a much more informal model that would have lower expectations, I think some additional structure, in line with what I have suggested above, might be helpful. Of course, there may be better fixes out there or this may just be abberational.
In any event, your point is well taken. _________________ GVD
I noticed your submissions, Duicarthan and Wolfsire.
As for the Calendar of holidays, a uniform calendar would be difficult given the regional and local variation, other than the religious and seasonal ones.
GVD, I hope the number of holidays remain relatively sparse, how can peasants live their life of mind numbing labor if there is a holiday every week.
GVD: “In no way do I mean to detract from those, such as yourself, who actually submitted material.”
I never though you did.
GVD: “All the same, I feel embarassed for reasons you have identified. I find myself overdressed for the ocassion.”
I understand, but I think you should look further into your metaphor and not toss out the idea of a comprehensive piece. It is a tuxedo and should be shown off at the right party. Even if it could not be a collaborative project (perhaps a premature assessment as comments have not come in), I can see quite a lot of added value in the project you explained. I strongly encourage you do it. You have a great foundation to work with.
Crag, my first thought at seeing the numbers where similar to yours, but I reconsidered. It is my understanding that medieval peasants did celebrate a large number of holidays, although I do not know how that would work with this list. More to the point, however, and a scan of the GVD’s material bears this out, they can be broken up regionally. Perhaps the calendar could be color coded by culture and/or region.
Hey, guys. I appreciate the feedback on this Postfest. We want it to work well and be enjoyable for all. So this kind of discussion is great. Now, don't be dismayed if this thread gets moved to the Canonfire Feedback and Help forum. Just follow it there so we can keep it going.
Now, the below is just my opinion. I am far from a decision maker here, just a humble site helper. I'll add the following to provide insight from a Web-slave's view.
gvdammerung wrote:
(1) Two post fests per year:
First Postfest Opens February 1, YYYY, Closes May 1, YYYY
Second Postfest Opens September 15, YYYY, Closes November 15, YYYY
Two seems a bit anemic, while three might be a magic number. Three evenly spaced Postfests held during the same months each year, with regularity might end up becoming the standard. Thanksgiving/Christmas was the challenging season last year. The rest of the year seems to work well.
gvdammerung wrote:
(2) No more than 3 Postfest entries per participant
I really don't care too much about how many entries are contributed per participant. I am reluctant to cap individual contributions. Especially if a series of submissions comprise a theme or relate, or if someone is on a roll.
gvdammerung wrote:
(3) If one month into the Postfest there are 3 or fewer participants who have submitted material, the Postfest is cancelled.
I'd hate to declare a Postest a wash. I am still willing to edit, format and post whatever material is submitted.
gvdammerung wrote:
(4) Postfest topics are determined by a Poll posted to CF. Postfest Poll will be run as any other front page poll. Leading topic wins as the next Postfest topic. Postfest Poll opens one month before Postfest is to begin.
I really have no comment about how to devise our topics. Sometimes, we informally "poll" the people in Thursday night chats, asking what a good topic could be. Sometimes, a staff memebr comes up with a great idea on his or her own. We can certainly explore the process of generating Postfest ideas.
As of now, there will not be any voting for Postfest favorites. I feel that the notion of voting disinclines some of our community members from contributing. We don't want voting to prevent one from participating, so the practice may not return. I know the obverse is that others are strongly induced to participate because of the chance to "win." If you can think of some way to make the event prestigious, without singularly awarding someone, share your idea.
Thanks, guys. Good discussion. _________________ Don (Greyson)
I was just downloading GVD's posts and noticed that a couple at the end of the list were missing the disclaimer: "Used with Permission. Do not repost without obtaining prior permission from the author."
Yeah, that language is affected by recent Web site changes. Count this issue among others that will be resolved as the site's coding implementations are smoothed out. _________________ Don (Greyson)
Duicarthan, that was a nice piece. Halloween is my favorite holiday. You did a great job explaining, in overview fashion, the variety of ways it is celebrated in Greyhawk. If any of the particular cultures you referenced is dear to your heart, I would love to see Wikrhys, or its equivalent, explained in further detail for that culture.
Thanks, I really tried to explain w/o giving all the details out there. I really like leaving Greyhawk fairly barebones. Now the other holiday I was going to do but never got to was the Festival of the Blood Moon. I just ran out of time on that one. =/
But yeah, Halloween is my favorite as well. So I had to have a little fun with it. Hope everyone enjoys it just as much. _________________ Cheerz,
-Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
http://www.oerthjournal.comhttp://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
Now the other holiday I was going to do but never got to was the Festival of the Blood Moon. I just ran out of time on that one.
I was hoping to see someone detail the Festival of the Blood Moon this Postfest. Perhaps we sahll see it some time. It sounds like a devilishly interesting "festival." I was imagining someone taking Cook's The Book of Vile Darkness and really going to town with the Festival of the Blood Moon. _________________ Don (Greyson)
Would it be possible to get the usual announcement of the Postfest being ready for readership on the front page? To my knowledge, this thread is the only way to gain access to the Holidays Postfest material.
I too liked GVD's initial format. While I've only read a few of his posts, and have not commented, I have "rated" them using the lil tool in every article.
I imagine a compromise between the seeming complete spontaneity of the old AOL Postfests and the new semi-regulated CF! Postfests. To me, a relative outsider (just now returning to the online GH community), it appears that a sizable group of regular CF! posters, article submitters, and 'chatters exists. This includes a number of relative "oldtimers" and a host of relative "newcomers"--people I'd never "met" online outside of CF!. We have a few Dragonfooters and a number of Wizards' GH folder posters.
It seems to me that this group is the one that is best positioned to generate Postfest ideas that resonate with enough people to receive substantial "entries." For one interested, the next step is to review who has posted and commented for the past several Postfests and to then determine whether those people remain active in the CF! fora or the 'chat. "We" should then ask them why they did (not) post in the latest Postfest and if they plan to post in the upcoming / current one.
I'll stop now. Basically, I advocate community-building. Let's hear from the recent posters and the assiduous commentators.
For one interested, the next step is to review who has posted and commented for the past several Postfests and to then determine whether those people remain active in the CF! fora or the 'chat. "We" should then ask them why they did (not) post in the latest Postfest and if they plan to post in the upcoming / current one.
I'm neither a current contributor nor a frequent commentor, but I've not contributed for one simple reason: voting. I don't like it. If Greyson says it's gone, however, than I'll make an effort to contribute.
Cheers
Nell.
PS - I'm waiting for the collected postfests in PDF form.
Nellisir said... If Greyson says it's gone, however, than I'll make an effort to contribute.
Good discussion, all. Thanks for the input. I hope we see some more comments. I quoted Nathan above to reiterate the following: There will be no voting on Postfest submissions. I earnestly hope that more people will submit an article without the worry of voting for this last leg of the summer Postfest - and in future events.
It does not appear the the Holidays and Festivals of Greyhawk topic was very popular. The notion of holidays just did not seem to be compelling. I'm thankful that Wolfsire and Duicarthan picked up the topic, and that GVD really ran with it.
Nellisir said... I'm waiting for the collected postfests in PDF form.
That very idea was recently discussed. I shall make an effort to appease this request. I am, however, reluctant to submit a time frame. Please, give me some time.
I liked voting, although it was sometimes difficult. But as at least one member has felt slighted by it, another has not contributed because of it, and because I have seen no evidence that it has helped, I say good ridence.
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