A book of several hundred spells obviously has little direct relevance to Greyhawk, but there is something relevant in this:
All personal names have been stripped from the spells.
This affects a few GH names (a Bigby here, a Leomund there), and a ton of FR spells (even Elminsters gets the big denial). It seems WotC has decided such naming conventions aren't good for cross-brand marketing.
Other minor things:
The "new" spell format is simply the addition of some italicized flavor text, similar to the default descriptions in the Monster Manual. Hardly anything significant, but I guess it made for attractive ad copy.
It has material from the Hero series supplements (the books that start with "Complete"), some FR books, the two planar books, and some of the monster books (Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Savage Species), plus Dragon and web articles.
It has a large number of reprinted domains.
However, some domains keep getting "updated" in new books, so some of these domains now have even newer versions. (I need to do some comparisons of that for my own use eventually.)
Overall, the worst part of this book would be the size. There are so many spells in here it will take a DM a week just to review it, and longer to absorb it all, even if you have all the sources used for it.
It doesn't have a proper index, but then WotC seems to forget those regularly.
And because there are more than two dozen other sourcebooks out there with spells, it strongly suggests they'll be releasing another volume eventually.
All personal names have been stripped from the spells.
This affects a few GH names (a Bigby here, a Leomund there), and a ton of FR spells (even Elminsters gets the big denial). It seems WotC has decided such naming conventions aren't good for cross-brand marketing.
This is a tendency which I deeply deplore, and I am sure that I am not alone. The main factor that drew me to Greyhawk in the 80s was curiosity about the people behind the names of spells and the cryptic allusions to the same in the 1st ed. PH and DMG ("this spell may be used in conjunction with any of the Hand spells of the archmage Bigby" is one example that has stuck in my head for twenty years). The creeping attrition of the personal element, visible already in 2nd ed. (witness the lame attempts to explain why space dragons had access to one of the Bigby spells as a spell-like ability), is very annoying.
Prochytes (who hopes some day to advance his sorcerer to Epic level so that she finally has a shot at getting a spell named after her...)
Overall, the worst part of this book would be the size. There are so many spells in here it will take a DM a week just to review it, and longer to absorb it all, even if you have all the sources used for it.
Incredible. We should have a 10 page spell book instead?
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It doesn't have a proper index, but then WotC seems to forget those regularly.
I don't mind this so much with a book where the spells are arranged alphabetically. (OTOH, the LGG's lack of an index - yes, I know there's one in Dragon mag - is very frustrating).
Incredible. We should have a 10 page spell book instead?
No, but 279 pages (which excludes the minor intro stuff and the pseudo-table of contents) for an expansion, is just a bit much. Particularly, as I said, since given the books it doesn't include, it practically screams "expect a sequel".
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I don't mind this so much with a book where the spells are arranged alphabetically.
Even so, having an idea what page they are on would help, since there aren't even letter tabs.
What might be better is more breakdown lists, showing all the spells of a particular school, or listing sub-category along with the school for each spell to make finding things easier. As it is, you have to guess for non-sorcerer/wizard spells, then check each spell, level by level, before finally figuring out what might be available to fill a requirement.
Hi all -
No, I'm not back.
But, thanks for the heads up, Wise(Crack)Sam. Hopefully someone is checking the forums at WotC, EN World, and the other multitudes of D&D Web sites out there in which hopefully someone will post those lists, indexes and such. If that is the case, will you guys post a link to it?
I can't pick up the book yet, as the WifeFIEND puts a hold on all self-shopping after Thanksgiving (my birthday was Sunday 12/11 and I got another Giants of Legends mini's box - and it had A Huge Gold Dragon and an Inspiring Marshall [both rares] in the box, as well as a Death Knell set). So since it's now Tuesday, I guess it'll be from the Fat Man.
Be Well. _________________ Theocrat Issak
Unfortunatly, this is the only reason I probably won't buy this book. Taking away our setting is bad enough, now they take away the spells that allude to our setting. (Granted the spells arent GONE per se) but I'd rather cast Tenser's Floating disk than Floating disk, or one of the multitude of Bigby's spells. Sad, but true.
Unfortunatly, this is the only reason I probably won't buy this book. Taking away our setting is bad enough, now they take away the spells that allude to our setting. (Granted the spells arent GONE per se) but I'd rather cast Tenser's Floating disk than Floating disk, or one of the multitude of Bigby's spells. Sad, but true.
Unfortunatly, this is the only reason I probably won't buy this book. Taking away our setting is bad enough, now they take away the spells that allude to our setting. (Granted the spells arent GONE per se) but I'd rather cast Tenser's Floating disk than Floating disk, or one of the multitude of Bigby's spells. Sad, but true.
As a classic (basic) D&D purist, I resented the day that Tenser's name was added to that spell....
Anyway, just put the names back if you want them, it's not that big a deal. I do agree with Sam about the tragedy of not including an index. A book with that many scrolls needs an index, as well as appendices showing the spells by level, class, domain and school. _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
As a classic (basic) D&D purist, I resented the day that Tenser's name was added to that spell....
Those were the days . Wall of hammers was much nicer than blade barrier...
chatdemon wrote:
Anyway, just put the names back if you want them, it's not that big a deal.
It is not a big deal, true, but I still think that one is entitled to complain (if only because I am a bit cantankerous and enjoy doing it). If the decision had been made to change all the names in Aerdy for no particularly good reason and release Mr. Fluffy the Undying , it would not have cut much ice to say "hey, if you don't like the name, you can always put it back to Ivid if you want". Bad decisions don''t stop being bad decisions just because they are easy to fix.
(That said, Mr. Fluffy the Undying would have been rather cool... and who knows what Ivid thought his name was by the end .)
I'd like to note that this affects about 5 or 6 GH named spells, and something like 30 FR named spells. So if anyone should be whining it should Elfinster and the Seven Wenches who saw their names stripped from spells with abandon.
More, most GH spells appeared in generic books, like the PHB and UA and such, rather than in products with the GH banner. So most of them are just plain generic. FR spells on the other hand mostly appeared in products with the FR banner. So again, if anyone should be upset about WotC coming in and "stealing" stuff from their setting it should be the FR types. They have been thoroughly plundered by this, GH had some spare changed snatched from behind the sofa.
As I said, it shows that WotC is finally waking up in regards to licensing. That should be a good sign.
I'd like to note that this affects about 5 or 6 GH named spells, and something like 30 FR named spells. So if anyone should be whining it should Elfinster and the Seven Wenches who saw their names stripped from spells with abandon.
Again, not an argument that really works for me, as a Unilateralist of Whinge. If somone hits you on the head five times with a piece of driftwood, it is not much solace to be told that the person who should really be complaining is the one who was hit on the head thirty times with a piece of driftwood (as far as cerebral haemorrhaging will allow him so to do).
But the point about licensing is very well made, and I fully accept that I am making a mountain out of a more than usually exiguous molehill. I' ll shut up now.
The index can be sorted by name, source (only 2 at the moment), page, school (with sub-category), class/level, range, and targe/effect/area.
You'd need to print it out multiple times to get the full sorting, or save it sorted each way, or be connected for it to be fully useable, but at least it exists.
Hi all -
I printed the Index in PDF and it's 46 pages. That's a lot of printing and paper, and would have been easier to have it in the book, and only an additional 2-3 pages. Of course, with the volume of book that was published, 2-3 pages would certainly add up to well over the 46 pages that even a 100 ppl would print. But it would have been easier to access.
Oh well. _________________ Theocrat Issak
Much as I like the grewvy Greyhawk names attached to spells, I think stripping them was a wise decision given the apparent format of the book (no, I havenot and probably will not purchase nor even peruse it at the FLGS.) But really, which spell would be easier to find, Tenser's Floating Disk[/] or [i]Floating Disk? Though with this reason I would prefer Floating Disk, Tenser's.
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