Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-in my Greyhawk Campaign.....

Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:23 pm in my Greyhawk Campaign.....

So, my Classic D&D game is being ressurected, and I've retroactively set it on Oerth. Up til now it's been mostly dungeon crawl and pretty light on world related background, so there won't be any notable disruption of play.

I need to pick a good spot to install the Keep on the Borderlands and its immediate environs, as the party has been hacking their way through good old B2. Any suggestions? It needs to be a frontier area, without much in the way of law and order beyond what the local militia can impose at swordspoint, and have decent sized temperate forest and plenty of caves in the area.
I am thinking of someplace on the Wild Coast, perhaps.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:28 pm

As for my other adaptations-

The Cult of Evil Chaos from B2 will be a cult of Erythnul, driven out of more civilized lands. The cultists are trying to unite the nonhuman tribes of the Caves for a joint assault on the Keep [so far not all that sucessfully, but the raids by the PCs may help change this] . Once they capture the Keep, they plan on using it as a base for further raids against farms and towns in the region.

Of course, the PCs don't know all that yet.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:51 pm

Erythnul is a great choice, as is the Wild Coast. Is this before or after the war?

Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:08 pm

Definitely Pre-Wars.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:32 pm

It's 579 CY.

After reading through the boxed set, I've settled on the Wild Coast. It's always been one of my favorite corners of Oerth.

The Keep [which I should probably give a proper name- surprsingly, this hasn't come up yet Laughing

] was built centuries ago, fell into ruin, and was cleared and rebuilt by some lordling- or possibly one of the small city-states. It's a watchpost and stronghold that protects against raiders from the Pomarj and monsters from the Suss.

I'll need to decide what god the chaplain at the Keep serves. Somebody lawfully aligned, I think.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:10 pm

A note on castles, knights, and magic:

I use that Iron Enchantments stuff from OJ11[ I think that was the issue]. It helps to make conventional castles and city walls defensible, despite mages, flying beasties, etc. Of course, not all castles have these sorts of magical defenses, but many important ones do.

I also assume that there exist magical banners, holy relics, standards, war-horns, etc with area effect bonuses for troops. This might be limited protection versus magical attacks, morale bonuses, or other cool stuff. Getting these sorts of items is a high priority for a would-be warlord, obviously.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:36 am

i loved your idea!
im DMing B2 to a group, but the "main" one is about to beging (finally, i hope!" T1 (and MAYBE T2), but i was thinking about going B2 after. i will use your idea Wink

Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:32 am

Love the Erythnul angle too often he gets pushed aside by Hextor.

But why the lawful angle; if you want to set up a simplistic Law vs Chaos but the wild coast has always been very grey. With the oeridian and suel history why not use a lesser neutral aligned deity or even another evil deity. If you want to stay with the lawful angle Stern Alia, Daern or Wee Jas are good choices.

Stern Alia LN - make the keep slightly oppressive
Daern LN - make the keep a defensive bastion
Wee Jas LN (LE) - play up the suloise and magic aspect

Other ideas
Bralm N (LN) - can have a real moral delimna play up the regimentation

Personally I really like this one
Kuroth CN - Perhaps the keep inhabitants have raided the humanoid lairs and the Erythnul cult plays on the revenge aspect. Maybe the humanoids even have justification for the assault. The PCs have attacked humanoid lairs before (I assume); how can they come down on the Kuroth followers for the same thing.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:01 pm

I put it in Bissel near the entrance to the Valley of the Mage.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:23 pm

Pre-War! Woohoo! Southern Wild Coast sounds great. IMC, using Anna's map of the Wild Coast, I made Elredd into a County (screw Fate of Istus), split into a number of fiefs held by high-ranking knights plus 3 baronies. You could make the Keep a fief of Elredd or some independent thing someone has set up right on the frontier. Either way should give you ample opportunities for dragging the party into politics if you ever want to work that angle.
Pelor would be a good choice for a lawful chaplain at the Keep if you ask me. Of course that depends on how you tend to play that god. Some people make too much of the peaceful angle IMO.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:23 pm

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Crag, those are some great ideas about gods!

Reviewing my notes, I see that I made a reference to the Keep's chapel being built to honor multiple deities, with small shrines for each. In particular, there was a male solar deity and a female lunar deity.

Pelor seems obvious, but I'm not sure. Pholtus? Hmmmm... Any moon godesses?

Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:32 pm

Crag- I like Erythnul. He's a very primal sort of evil.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:36 pm

Upon further review, I've decided I like Crag's suggestion of using Daern. The chaplain at the Keep will worship her. I'll keep the polytheist feel by including small alcoves dedicated to a few other common deities.

Notes on Greyhawk gods and religions IMC:

I try to stress that most people on Oerth are practicing polytheists. Only a few gods routinely demand the exclusive attentions of the worshippers. Clerics focus on a single god, but even most of them will pay respect to other deities when appropriate [unless it's one of their god's enemies, or something like that].

I see the churches of Pholtus and St Cuthbert as being the closest things Oerth has to Judeo-Christian religions.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:40 am

My Pholtans are not true monotheists. Pholtans are typically henotheists who place their god before all others- at least the ones in the Pale and Dimre do this.

In blatant disregard of more recent canon- Happy

- I use St Cuthbert as the paramount deity of Veluna. Other cults are allowed there, unless they are enemies of St Cuthbert [Pholtans are tolerated, but may suffer discrimination].

Something I'm strongly considering using: St Cuthbert was once a mortal priest of Pholtus. His ideas drifted away from the official doctrines of the One True Way. After the Saint ascended to divine status, a rift formed bewteen the two gods, reflected by a split among their worshippers. This all happened centuries ago.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:10 pm

Then your Veluna is more aggressive then the "can't we all get along" ethos of Rao.

As for faith; I think it is self-evident that GH is heavily polythestic. How can it not be with the divine being real. Even "good kingdoms" probably appease Nerull and Incabulous. Don't make a big deal but at funerals or outbreaks of disease - an offering is quietly left.

Even within the intolerate Pale the inqisitors realize some rural communities practice primitive beliefs (weather deities). Apparently the Pale has adopted a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy.

If the pale has to accommodate polythesism I can't see another nation pulling it off - Iuz maybe Wink

Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:47 pm

Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:35 pm

A few other things-

Vecna is not a god. I doubt I'll run those Vecna modules, as I don't even own them. He'll probably remain a creepy historical footnote. The Hand and/or the Eye might show up if my campaign makes it into high level play, but that's far in the future.

Tharizdun is a mostly forgotten deity. Only the SB, some crazy cultists, and a few old scholars have any knowledge of him. He is NOT the Elder Elemental God.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:19 pm

Other gods stuff-

Ehlonna and Fharlanghn both have Oerth as their home plane. Ehlonna doesn't live in the Flanaess though. She's someplace far away, in a legendary sylvan realm. Fharlaghn goes wherever he likes, walking freely across the Oerth.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:28 am

I looked through the WoG boxed set and noticed that several gods dwell on the Prime Material :Fharlanghn, Olidammara, Obad-Hai, Ehlonna, Wastri, Iuz, Zagyg [Prime Plane/Concordant Opposition].

We know where Iuz and Wastri live. What about the others? Do they have deific realms on Oerth, perhaps across the sea or far away to the west?

I'm not sure how I'll do this, but I think I'd like to work out where these gods live on Oerth [assuming Prime Plane doesn't mean another planet, or something Spelljammerish like that]. These would be mythical countries to the inhabitants of the Flanaess, of course.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:33 am

This is an idea I've been kicking around for a while:

Okay, so we've got a megadungeon located underneath some wild frontier region[ Bandit Kingdoms, I think...]. Adventurers come across an entrance, go inside, and the survivors come out rich. They didn't clear the dungeon- it's too big! They just did part of one huge level, perhaps.

Word spreads, and other parties begin to trickle in to the hills, hoping to get rich or die trying. The trickle becomes a stream when new entrances are discovered in the region. Traders, whores, laundresses, teamsters [gotta have some way of hauling all that loot back home], wainwrights, gamblers, linkboys etc are drawn to the era in search of employment and a camp town springs up around the site of the first entrance to be cleared.

There is no powerful state controlling the area, so law, such as it is, is handled by a coalition of factions. These men aren't exactly the polite and civilized type... Think of Deadwood as portayed in the HBO show of the same name.

Physically, the place is a shambles. There are probably no stone buildings. Quite a few people are living and working out of tents or hastily constructed wooden shacks. The streets are just dirt tracks- mud when it rains. It's something in between a campsite and a proper town.

There may be orcs or barbarians in the area, who don't take kindly to all these newcomers building a town in their territory. The defenses of the camp are not impressive, but the orcs [or whoever it is] have learned the hard way that a camp full of adventurers is a lot tougher than it looks!

Further plot elements could include an outside power trying to bring the place under its control, a local faction trying to impose law and order over the dead bodies of the worst elements in town, etc.

Adventures can involve everything from dungeon crawlin' to local politics.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:47 am

If its the bandit kingdoms definately orcs Smile

The bandit Lands are under Iuz control but the area is very chaotic so control could be a stretch. Given that atmosphere the scenario would work but don't make all the adventure types "heroic freedom fighters" hard bitten scum seek their fortunes too.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:03 pm

Sounds like a great campaign to be a part of!
As for the gods, I would like to make a plea for my favorite deity who sems to have disappeared (maybe something happened that I missed) from the official WOTC lineup in recent years --Celestian.

I loved the fact that Fharlanghn may have had a brother who wandered the heavens like he wandered the roads. So throw in some nutty astronomer wizard with a tower out in the sticks who hosts services for the Star Wanderer...

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:58 pm

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:03 pm

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:12 pm

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28509

Here's a link to my campaign journal on Dragonsfoot. Sorry about all the typos, i was really tired when I punched out most o' those entries.

Background on the PCs:

Hadrian fighter 1, human lawful

Elinil elf [which is like fighter/mage in Classic] lawful

Nosh cleric [Pyremius! Happy

] 1, human chaotic

NPCs in party :

Katya thief 1, human, neutral

Cletus, normal man [would be a commoner in 3E] , neutral he handles the mules and horses [and makes straw hats]

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:28 pm

Nice campaign journal. I really love the Deadwood idea. Brilliant! That show would make a great stable of npc's to throw at parties throughout a campaign. Smile

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:35 pm

It's going well so far.

I hope to game again in a week or two.

Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: the Deadwood idea.

Wasn't that what they did in RETURN TO THE TOMB OF HORROR? Had a little town spring up around the tomb, based on the sheer number of greedy people who wanted to see the sights and die? 8)

Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:25 pm

Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:57 pm

Wasn't KotBL retconned into Perrenland or the Yeomanry or something?

Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:46 pm

Yeomanry, I believe.

That's Return to KotBL.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:19 pm

I placed my Keep on the Borderlands game in the Yeomary and did one near the Bright Desert.