I was collecting quotes about the history of ancient Blackmoor, to see if I could piece together its history. From the following, it seems that it was a Flan land that became claimed by the Baklunish Empire to the south. Taking Baklunish magic and technology to previously undreamt-of heights, the nobles there founded the City of the Gods and declared independence, becoming an ally of the rival Suel Imperium in order to help maintain its sovereignty. Eventually the constructs of the city were brought down by a plague of chaos introduced by the slaadi, then swallowed by the encroaching Land of Black Ice (cause unknown) at about the time of the Twin Cataclysms. The expansion of the Land of Black Ice was ultimately stopped by native Flan sorcerers using the power of the oerthmagic native to the region, but by that time the City of the Gods culture was ruined and forgotten.
The Egg of Coot also uses construct servants, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a connection.
'After they dug down to the shape, they found it to be a strange construct from an ancient realm that predated the Black Ice. They freed the creature's head and were amazed to see that it still lived. The creature is known as a nimblewright, and it told tales of the wealth of southern lands, of magical constructs, and of the secrets of its ancient empire.' - Dungeon #115, page 32.
'Long ago, a small fiefdom in the northlands reached the heights of civilization--its craftsmanship and knowledge of artifice were unmatched. Constructs served the lords and ladies of the land, performing menial labor and freeing the city's aristocracy to devote more time to art, philosophy, and war. The heart of these lands was called the City of the Gods, and it was unlike any city before or since. Some say the City's automatons were struck down by a plague... Over the ages, the advancing ice drove out what few denizens remained...' - Dungeon #126, page 43.
'Mathghamhna was somewhere in the Baklunish Empire (for example, the northwesternmost spur of the Yatmil [sic] Mountains or the "City of the Gods" in Blackmoor).' - College of Wizardry, page 9.
'The secret of creating brass men is said to have been given to humans by the efreet, who hoped that in time the brass men could take control of the humans and help the efreet rule the human lands from their City of Brass.' - Dungeon #126, page 60.
'...oddities such as "memory gears," "animating spirit-gems," "everwound springs..."' - Dungeon #126, page 45.
'Clockwork eunuchs balance the skills of clockwork artisans, clerics, and genie-binding sorcerers. They depend on carefully set everwound springs, memory gears, and magical rune-powered animating gemstones that pulse with elemental power.' - Dragon #334, page 39.
'In the earliest days of the conflict between the Suel and Baklunish empires, Suloise magi sought to turn the legendary Baklunish affection for the elements against them. To do this, they created four artifacts of surpassing power and infused these symbols of elemental magic with a portion of the spirits of powerful elemental princes.. After detecting the flaws in the elemental items, the Suel dispatched them to foreign lands as gifts of the emperor's gratitude... The Unquenchable Scepter traveled north, to what would become Blackmoor (and rested in that land's fabled castle for centuries).' - Dragon #294, page 94.
'Through a series of improbable accidents, the green slaad and its sword (a source of raw chaos) entered the orderly waters of the Gearspring Well... the Well could no longer create clockwork creatures; instead it infected all the clockwork creatures near it with gear madness.' - Dungeon #126, page 58.
'Legend says that the numerous mounds and standing stones throughout the archbarony were created by the Northern Adepts of Old Blackmoor (presumedly a cabal of Ur-Flan sorcerers) to constrain the encroaching Black Ice.' - Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 34.
'Before the time of the Great Migrations, the moors north of the Cold Marshes were inhabited by Flan tribes who dwelt in stockadelike hill-forts near the numerous hot springs throughout the region. These remote tribesmen were little troubled by the events in the southern lands, though their own tales say that the Black Ice already filled the northern valleys. It is not known what, if any, civilization existed in the far northern land before the Ice claimed it, but the rumor of evil in the north was old even when the Oeridians and Suel were new to the Flanaess.' - Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 34.
'The Suel were in fact the first outsiders to have a significant effect on the lives of the ancient Flan... The Zeai learned also of the City of the Gods and the Egg of Coot...' - Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 34.
'It is unknown who or what the Egg of Coot is, though he (it?) seems to possess magical ability of the highest order and is responsible for creating the nonhuman "automata" that populate the land immediately around his home.' - Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 34.
The hardest thing is pegging down the time period of the height of the City of the Gods culture. I think the City of the Gods must have been a going prospect during the early decades of the Baklunish-Suloise wars, since without it there wouldn't be much for the Suel to ally with. It's gone and swallowed by the Black Ice by the time the Zeai sea barbarians arrive during or slightly after the Great Migrations era, though, so there's not much of a window for it to have collapsed in the meantime (probably only a century or two; enough time for the Suel refugees fleeing the Rain of Colorless Fire to degenerate into barbarians in the distant Thillonrian Peninsula and then to sail to Blackmoor from there)). Probably the Black Ice was already advancing by the time of the Baklunish Suloise wars, and may even have surrounded the city by that point, but the gear madness had not yet destroyed the civilization until later in that period. It's been suggested by some that the Black Ice was somehow caused by the Rain of Colorless Fire, that it was a reaction to it, though others vehemently reject the theory (since the two phenomena are so far apart).
"Clockwork Fortress" does specify that Kolbenborg "...fell into ruin more than 1000 years ago." The City of the Gods "...fell to mysterious doom hundreds of years ago." The two are spoken of as having fallen roughly at the same time. I'd place the fall at around -410 CY, so I'd say your estimation is about right.
IThe hardest thing is pegging down the time period of the height of the City of the Gods culture. I think the City of the Gods must have been a going prospect during the early decades of the Baklunish-Suloise wars, since without it there wouldn't be much for the Suel to ally with. It's gone and swallowed by the Black Ice by the time the Zeai sea barbarians arrive during or slightly after the Great Migrations era, though, so there's not much of a window for it to have collapsed in the meantime (probably only a century or two; enough time for the Suel refugees fleeing the Rain of Colorless Fire to degenerate into barbarians in the distant Thillonrian Peninsula and then to sail to Blackmoor from there)).
Based on the LGG, I would postulate that the Sea Barbarians traveled to the Tusking Strand after the dissolution of the legendary barbarian empire ("Empire of Vatun" if you will), spoken of on p. 44. This empire allegedly "lasted only for the lifetime of the first fasstal of the Suelii" (a title supposedly bestowed by Vatun upon the first king of the Ice Barbarians--see p. 54). The LGG implies the empire fell due to the Vatun's disappearance (p.44), which occurred "about the time of the Battle of a Fortnight's Length" (p. 185) in 535 OR (-110 CY; the date of -109 CY on p. 23 is a miscalculation).
We learn on p. 44 that it took a century for the barbarian clans to reach Rhizia, The LGG implies that the barbarians migrations were caused by the Rain of Colorless Fire in -422 CY (p. 54), so they arrived in Rhizia circa -322 CY. Assuming that the first Fasstal of the Suelii did not have a magically-enhanced lifespan, we can probably assume that it took a little over a century and a half to two centuries for the Suel tribes to fully become faux-Vikings.
I would assume that the loss of vatun created strife among the tribes, and the Zeai journeyed to the Tusking Strand to avoid the drama. It's also possible they were exiled, especially if they arrived prior to the imprisonment of Vatun.
Does the Blackmoor adventure, DA3 City of the Gods, take place in the past (like other Blackmoor adventures)? I thought I remember reading a recap of Mordenkainen and Robilar's adventure to the City of the Gods in a Dragon magazine issue somewhere, which would imply that it was still around.
Thank you for collecting these quotes, by the way! I plan to someday run an adventure to the City of the Gods, and have often wondered how I would shoehorn/alter it to make it consistent with canon.
DA3 takes place 4000 years in the past of the basic D&D world, which was later named Mystara, but it describes something that was "present day" in Dave Arneson's campaign.
Before Greyhawk was invented, Dave Arneson created a fantasy setting he called Blackmoor. When he told Gary Gygax about his group's variation of the Chainmail game, Gygax began playing it himself about a year later, inventing the city and castle of Greyhawk for his own campaign. Both Greyhawk and Blackmoor were given places on the Casttle and Crusades Society's campaign map, which was based on North America. When Arneson DMed a Blackmoor adventure for Gygax and Rob Kuntz in the City of the Gods,they used their PCs Mordenkainen and Robilar. Mordy originated in Kuntz's Kalibruhn campaign.
Years later the World of Greyhawk setting was published, including a gorgeous map by Darlene of a continent that doesn't look much if anything like the C&C map used in Gygax and Arneson's original campaigns, and a country named the Archbarony of Blackmoor that looks nothing like Arneson's Kingdom of Blackmoor.
Years after that, TSR published the DA modules. It was the policy then to set all freelance work in the world based on the map that David Cook and Tom Moldvay had invented for Isle of Dread. Because Blackmoor didn't fit with that map, they invented a time travel plot and set it thousands of years in the past.
I would assume that the loss of vatun created strife among the tribes, and the Zeai journeyed to the Tusking Strand to avoid the drama. It's also possible they were exiled, especially if they arrived prior to the imprisonment of Vatun.
I would favor post-imprisonment Zeai. This brings up an excellent cultural history for them. They could be an ultra-loyal splinter group of Vatun worshipers who seek him in far off icy lands (as Telchur is named responsible). As we've seen, the 5 Swords didn't actually resummon Vatun. Whether this was a hoax by Iuz from the start or just a mis-played ritual I can't recall, but the Zeai may once have had answers but now have largely given up in favor of the lucrative fur and ivory trade.
You might already know about this, but since you're working on an in-depth look at Blackmoor, I thought I'd bring it up. On page 25 of Codex of the Immortals from the Wrath of the Immortals box set there is an interesting reference. It talks about the immortal Khoronus who, as a mortal, discovered a time travel device, and saw what was to become of his beloved Blackmoor. His reponse was to set up a colony based on Blackmoor's culture on a "world which was far, far away in the Prime Plane." You could easily make the case that is far away world is Oerth. It also gives a bit of an out when trying to place the events of the DA adventures in Oerth's timeline, since any event from those books could have happened in "old" Blackmoor, but their cultural impacts felt in "new" Blackmoor.
I would favor post-imprisonment Zeai. This brings up an excellent cultural history for them. They could be an ultra-loyal splinter group of Vatun worshipers who seek him in far off icy lands (as Telchur is named responsible). As we've seen, the 5 Swords didn't actually resummon Vatun. Whether this was a hoax by Iuz from the start or just a mis-played ritual I can't recall, but the Zeai may once have had answers but now have largely given up in favor of the lucrative fur and ivory trade.
As I recall, Iuz interrupted the ritual before it could be completed, scattering the swords around and claiming to be Vatun. Which makes sense, especially since the Swords of Corusk are apparently one of the things that can kill him.
You might already know about this, but since you're working on an in-depth look at Blackmoor, I thought I'd bring it up. On page 25 of Codex of the Immortals from the Wrath of the Immortals box set there is an interesting reference. It talks about the immortal Khoronus who, as a mortal, discovered a time travel device, and saw what was to become of his beloved Blackmoor. His reponse was to set up a colony based on Blackmoor's culture on a "world which was far, far away in the Prime Plane." You could easily make the case that is far away world is Oerth. It also gives a bit of an out when trying to place the events of the DA adventures in Oerth's timeline, since any event from those books could have happened in "old" Blackmoor, but their cultural impacts felt in "new" Blackmoor.
I did notice that, actually. Apparently Khoronus' colonists came from only a century after Blackmoor was founded, which was 900 years before the DA series according to the Zeitgeist Games Blackmoor stuff. Khoronus is supposed to have built a great city there. Perhaps this was the City of the Gods.
I commented more on Khoronus's history in this thread.
You could easily make the case that is far away world is Oerth. It also gives a bit of an out when trying to place the events of the DA adventures in Oerth's timeline, since any event from those books could have happened in "old" Blackmoor, but their cultural impacts felt in "new" Blackmoor.
I did notice that, actually. Apparently Khoronus' colonists came from only a century after Blackmoor was founded, which was 900 years before the DA series according to the Zeitgeist Games Blackmoor stuff. Khoronus is supposed to have built a great city there. Perhaps this was the City of the Gods.
Very cool find Dr Asworth. I (unlike rasgon) had never heard of this connection before. It was discussed at the piazza forums perhaps as rasgon links but certainly not here I bet. It sounds to me like a gem of a link for the two settings as I like time wrangling plane hopping crossovers like this.
This is one of the best historical fluff threads I've read. There so many gems to be mined from this. The mulitfaceted history of Blackmoor and its rare quality of remaining forever occulted has always fascinated me. It's a quality most campaign settings are missing. Now that I've got that off my chest...
Personally, I think "pegging down" timelines of fallen empires should be verboten. Like Tzunk's cataclysm to the north we shouldn't (or at least I still don't) know when it happened. This gives elbow room for DMs to explore and write history as they see fit - a necessary part of any great campaign setting. Since the "far away world" could just be Oerth of a different "when" it allows for the tragic tale of an inevitable fall. Living in a modern world without myths our understanding of inevitable decline is lost on us. To think that something as spectacular as "The City of the Gods" should fall to hubris doesn't immediately come to mind. It's a tale that should be told, though in the fragments of broken narrative with the fleeting shadows of Noh theater to reinforce the tragedy of loss. It reminds me of Ragnarok - the Doom of the gods. When the world has fallen into ruin the two survivors Lif and Lifthrasir will look upon the world and wonder...
55. "No man can tell | what in olden time
Thou spak'st in the ears of thy son;
With fated mouth | the fall of the gods
And mine olden tales have I told;
With O[d]in in knowledge | now have I striven,
And ever the wiser thou art."
One issue with the Khoronus connection is that Khoronus was supposed to have become an Immortal - the "gods" of the Mystara setting - while on the other world he'd colonized. The question becomes why the modern people of Oerth don't worship Khoronus as they do in Mystara.
But maybe they do. In Mystara, Khoronus is the patron of time. Perhaps Khoronus became known as Cyndor, mythic guardian of the timestreams. Oerth Journal #5 places an abbey of Cyndor in Blackmoor, calling it a highly respected pilgrimage site. This Broomsage Abbey appeared on the map of Blackmoor in Dungeon #126.
The story in Wrath of the Immortals has the mortal Khoronus traveling to three different future time periods (as part of what is known as the Path of the Dynast) to defend his colony against great threats to its existence. If Khoronus' colony was the City of the Gods in Oerth's Blackmoor, what three threats did the colony face?
My guesses are:
1. The Baklunish-Suloise Wars. Khoronus helps his descendants avoid being annihilated during the strife between the two great empires, and avoid being destroyed by the Invoked Devastation.
2. The Black Ice. Perhaps the most critical of the three threats, Khoronus has to figure out a way to maintain the dynasty he founded even as the City of the Gods that he created is overwhelmed by the encroaching ice. I'm not certain if he can be reasonably said to have succeeded in this, considering how much was lost, but if descendants of Khoronus continued to rule the area even after they're driven to the south, then he can be said to have succeeded.
3. Aerdy conquest. During this stage of the Path of the Dynast, Khoronus has to ensure that his descendants continue to rule the region even after the Great Kingdom conquers his land. Presumedly they intermarry with the Aerdi, and Khoronus ensures that his half-Oeridian descendants rule Blackmoor in the way he prefers, and that the land remains recognizably Blackmoorian.
Blackmoor continues to face other trials afterward (the collapse of Aerdy power, the conquest of the Egg of Coot), but through it all, his descendants still rule. And in any case, Khoronus's quest is complete.
What would be the names of the ten baronies of Blackmoor? I came with a possible list of names but it's not complete and could have errors. Any modifications or suggestions are more than welcome.
I think you could add Tonnsborg and Broomsage Abbey (Broomsage) as the other potential 2 baronies. They are the only other locations of note you don't mention and I don't think the Egg of Coot would count.
Thanks for the comment! I thought about those names too, but discarded them. Tonnsborg because it was founded by the Zeai and Broomsage for being an abbey. But, on a second thought, maybe the abbey is all that survived of that barony. I also considered Mosshold and discarded for being too near to Blackmoor town to be a separate barony, but it could be a possiblility.
According with the GHWiki four of the ten baronies are in ruins, so at least one of the missing names should be a ruin if we count Ramshorn as ruined and rebuilt.
So here's the new list of baronies:
1. Dantredun
2. Glendour
3. Dearthkettle
4. Ramshorn (ruins; later rebuilt)
5. Blackmoor (ruins)
6. Kolbenborg (ruins)
7. Stornawane
8. Trollbar
9. Broomsage (ruins; only the abbey remain)
10. Mosshold
Saludos!
Gabriel _________________ Discord: @GrillWizard
Your list seems quite reasonable. Since I am actually DMing my group of players within Blackmoor at this stage of my campaign, I just might use your list of Baronies in an upcoming adventure.
Good to know you found the list useful! I made it since I'm about to start a campaign set in the Archbarony of Blackmoor too and that information was nowhere to be found.
Saludos!
Gabriel _________________ Discord: @GrillWizard
1. Dantredun
2. Glendour
3. Dearthkettle
4. Ramshorn (ruins; later rebuilt)
5. Blackmoor (ruins)
6. Kolbenborg (ruins)
7. Stornawane
8. Trollbar
9. Broomsage (ruins; only the abbey remain)
10. Mosshold
...
I'm working on the same project. My list is similar, but with a few exceptions:
1. Dantredun
2. Dearthkettle
3. Blackmoor- Blackmoor Town is occupied but the underbarony is not "ruined". Mosshold is part of this underbarony.
4. Ramshorne- the castle may be in ruins but the rest of the underbarony is not.
5. Tonnsborg- seat of power is not in Tonnsborg, but in an as yet undetermined elsewhere closer to Dearthkettle. Could be an inland manor/estate.
6. Stornawane- including the Abbey.
My ruined/lost underbaronies:
7. Trollbar- the town/castle might still be inhabited but the open country to the north is abandoned.
8. Egg of Coot area is a ruined underbarony.
9. West of the Egg/north of Burneal/south of Kolbenborg- ruined.
10. Southwest of Broomsage/Stornawane- wherever that road is going to- ruined!
For me "ruined" means little to no trade/traffic, communication or human population. The ruined underbaronies were inhabited during Blackmoor's peak but as Blackmoor has declined they've dropped off one by one. I still haven't come up with compelling names for the underbaronies and I want to avoid just naming them after a castle/village.
FWIW I think Kolbenborg is far to close to the Ice to be a ruined underbarony as it is described as falling into ruin "more than 1000 years ago" (Dungeon126). That would mean that the city was gone well before Blackmoor came into being or became part of the Great Kingdom. It may even have fallen before the Bak-suel Wars.
I'm fiddling with a primitive map of the underbaronies and I'll try to post in the next few days.
Thanks everyone for the posts so far and tell me what you think!
Since I'm begining to put it all together my list was far from being definite. I must say I like your list and find very reasonable your definition of ruined.
I'd say 2. Dearthkettle would include Glendour keep, and would put 5. Tonnsborg's seat of power more to the NE of it, in the peninsula, than near Dearthkettle. I'm tempted to still name your area 9. as Kolbenborg since it maybe existed as a barony in those times and the name persisted through these days. The road SW Broomsage/Stornawane leads to a place called Greenhead, according to this cool map of Blackmoor:
To use it in my game I modified it to match the maps on OJ #5 and Dungeon #115, since there were some things I didn't like. And talking about maps, hope to see yours soon!
It came to me the idea that the Underbaronies of Blackmoor would make a great article for the OJ. Don't you think so?
Saludos!
G. _________________ Discord: @GrillWizard
This is a really interesting thread and in fact my main reason for signing up to Canonfire. :)
rasgon wrote:
I did notice that, actually. Apparently Khoronus' colonists came from only a century after Blackmoor was founded, which was 900 years before the DA series according to the Zeitgeist Games Blackmoor stuff. Khoronus is supposed to have built a great city there. Perhaps this was the City of the Gods.
I commented more on Khoronus's history in this thread.
I am warming up to this idea of Khoronus' offworld Blackmoor being the founder of Greyhawk's Blackmoor. I also think it would be interesting to have Khoronus be an identity of King Robert I, the founder of Blackmoor (an homage to Rob Kuntz, incidentally). If he embarked on the Path of the Dynast as suggested by Rasgon, then that would make sense.
IMC, the Comeback Inn is the artifact used by Khoronus to travel in time and perhaps also across dimensions?
I am warming up to this idea of Khoronus' offworld Blackmoor being the founder of Greyhawk's Blackmoor. I also think it would be interesting to have Khoronus be an identity of King Robert I, the founder of Blackmoor (an homage to Rob Kuntz, incidentally). If he embarked on the Path of the Dynast as suggested by Rasgon, then that would make sense.
If he's the same person as Robert I, though, then he would have founded two dynasties (one on Blackmoor/Mystara and one on Oerth). That seems like overkill. Plus, if he was the ruler of an empire on his own world (which would last another thousand years), I think he'd have little reason to have to lead an exodus to another world, or expect any colony he might lead there to go any better than the lands he ruled back home. I think he left for another world precisely because he wasn't a ruler on his homeworld; he left a land whose destiny he couldn't control (because he didn't rule it) to reach one whose destiny he could control (because he did).
I think they were different people. In fact, I think Khoronus left his homeworld in order to escape Robert's control.
I'd be interested in putting a nice City of the Gods article in the Oerth Journal if one or more individuals would like to collaborate this project and get in touch with me!
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