Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-The Suss Forest

Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:09 am The Suss Forest

Creating a sidetrek for the upcoming postfest and was wondering about the lost city of the Suel, mentioned in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, situated in the Suss Forest.

I am thinking of tying it in to my Greyhawk Shakeup campaign, eventually but first I have a few questions.

Anyone have any information on this lost city, if it exists at all?

Secondly, I am struggling to tie Incabulos to any racial group. I was told he is the child of Beory but is also revered by the Suel under a different name.

Any help is much appreciated. Happy

Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:14 am

I don't know much about the gods, but the Lost City of the Suel in the Suss Forest was mentioned as far back as the 1984 World of Greyhawk boxed set. It should not be a forest-covered collection of ziggarauts, as an Olman city would be, but what architectural designs you decide to use otherwise are up in the air. Wink

SirXaris

Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:33 am

According to this he is part of the Suloise Pantheon

http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/2009/10/suloise-pantheon.html

Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:28 am Re: The Suss Forest

Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:51 pm

Thanks for the help guys!

Definitely going to check out B4, thanks Rasgon. Thanks for the link Rory.

Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:31 pm

Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:41 pm

Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:45 pm

Yes I play Incabulos as FC Flan but commonly known and worshipped by all races. I like your version Rasgon and agree with it whole heartedly.

Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:56 pm

My computer froze up in the midst of editing that. Fixed that post in all places.

As to the Greyhawk Gods list, yes, Incabulos is a part of the original list, but you will note that he is listed as "C", meaning "common in most areas". He is not specifically a Suel deity, only worshiped in most places(well, acknowledged in most places at the least). The title of the article is certainly misleading, as based on the title and list one may think that every deity on the list is of Suel origin when clearly they are not. Most cultures will have myths about Incabulos, and they will be told in such a way to fit in with the pantheon of deities that they worship.

That article is somewhat odd in stating that the Suel Gods are out-classed by other gods, when it seems that the Suel gods can instead do more with less, meaning they are more influential/powerful. Who's more powerful, the god of ALL winds, or just one of the four gods that can only handle a single wind? It takes 4 Oeridian wind gods to form the Oeridian Voltron wind god, while Phaulkon only needs himself. Marginalized indeed. Laughing

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Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:00 pm

Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:59 am

What happened is Joe Bloch (Greyhawk Grognard) combined both the list of common deities with the list of Suel deities to create a single unified list of all the gods the Suel are likely to worship. But not all of those gods are of specifically Suel origin. Incabulos is no more Suel than he is Oeridian or Baklunish or Flan or elven or dwarf or halfling or medusa or goblin or night hag. Instead, he's known and feared by all these races. If you look at Bloch's other lists of gods, I'm sure you'll see Incabulos on the Oeridian list and the Flan list as well.

"Common" doesn't mean that Gary Gygax didn't create them, just that they're worshiped in most areas of the world Gygax created.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:20 am

Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:36 pm

you might also wish to tell the tale of how this:

turned into this:

Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:50 pm

Aeolius, the best justification I read was that sussuri were spirits who created themselves corporeal forms from whatever materials were available. In 2nd edition's Monstrous Compendium Fiend Folio Appendix, they were made of bamboo.

That would have some utility in your underwater campaigns. Imagine sussuri made from coral, kelp, fish skeletons, or pieces of hag flesh.

Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:03 pm

I explained the 3e version by saying they were made of amber and petrified wood... artistic license and whatnot, with the Bizarro Silver Surfer image, there. ;)

Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:11 pm

As for the lost city of the Suel, a couple of Howard stories dealing with this theme are The Devil in Iron, Jewels of Gwahlur, and Xuthal of the Dusk. The latter, shall we say, is the "inspiration" for B4.

Each of these stories deals with a lost city in a unique but compelling way.

Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:19 pm

Howard's Red Nails would be a good fit too.
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Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:38 pm

Having thought about this a bit more, I seem to recall a very old Dungeon Magazine adventure that took place in the Lost City of the Suel (or maybe it was another city like it).

I remember a dead adventurer that seemed to have come from nowhere until the party looks up and discovers a Cloud Giant castle in a cloud directly overhead. After searching through the castle in the sky, the party continues their trek along a river until the find a ruined city full of Duergar, Derro, Pygmies, or something like it.

I seem to be remembering this adventure having a jungle/Africa-like setting, though, so it may not have been the city you are interested in after all. Never-the-less, if you can find a copy, it may offer some ideas or, at least, some ideas you don't want to duplicate. Wink

SirXaris

Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:41 pm

The jungle setting puts me in mind of Howard's Queen of the Black Coast setting. No castle in the clouds, but it has a winged monster. Wink

And a Lost City, of course. Evil Grin

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Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:39 pm

There's a map for sale and scant information on what may or may not be the Lost City of the Suel in GH Adventures p116.

Gord and companions spend some time searching for it in AoE.

Finally, I think I remember reading something about corrupt descendants of the Lost City living in Badwall or there being some kind of connection there, but I can't recall.

Also of note is RJK's Dark Druids - not directly related to this topic, but an excellent adventure full of creepy woodland atmosphere and terrifying encounters. Originally located in the Gnarley and worth mining for inspiration!

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:26 pm

Mystic Scholar,

I guess I missed those two (Queen of the Black Coast and Red Nails, though the latter always made me thing of something more Olman/Mayan, it still would work well.

An interesting twist that comes to mind is the Roanoke colony and Rungholt. Perhaps the actual Suel City is not a city. Perhaps the actual settlement was only a small outpost or settlement founded by fleeing survivors of the Rain of Coloreless Fire. Perhaps it was a small town, which would still have been an impressive settlement to the native Flan of the time.. And then suddenly, everyone dissapears. Maybe their is a cryptic message left behind ("Croatoan" or the Suel equivalent) or perhaps not.

An idea as to why it is still hidden could be that the river has shifted. Perhaps the city is now under a river or buried in silt. Perhaps the elves did not like having the Suel around, and used the river to solve the problem.

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:31 pm

Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:15 pm

Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:12 pm

As usual, awesome feedback - thanks guys!

I have an idea of a small temple dedicated to Incabulos in the Suss, overseen by a wicked, if somewhat pitiful priest that has an interesting past. The temple guards a magic item sacred to the foul god and waiting for unwary adventurers to find it. My idea is that the priest will be sacrificed by his deity, in order for the magical item to be allowed to be "let loose" on an unsuspecting Oerth. I'm thinking to locate the temple near the lost city of the Suel, which can be expanded upon to further the campaign, if required.

The Suss is a dark, dreary place according to the LG Gazeteer. I equate it to the forest in the Hobbit, where Bilbo encounters the spiders. I think setting the right mood is very important within the forest.

Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:50 am

One of these years, I will get around to running my all-animal game set in the Suss... Nature of the Beast . I've only had it in the back-burner for over a decade, now. ;)

I envision the ruins therein to be a cross between the Houses of the Old Ones (Gelfling ruins in The Dark Crystal) and the pyramid filled with malevolent foliage in "The Ruins".

Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:15 am

Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:44 am

...hmmm... I like the new look.

Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:17 pm

Another couple of ideas are some of H. Rider Haggard's stories. (Alan Quartermain and She come to mind. However, these are mostly set in 19th century Africa. Another twist is that the lost Suel city is not in the Suss, but underneath Badwall? Historically, many ancient cities have been built over numerous times. Troy is the best examples, with 9 Troy buried beneath the Roman city of Ilium, one on top of the other, until unconvered by Schliemann in the 19th century. The simple fact is that good site for settlements are too valuable to ignore, even if the previous incumbant met an unfortunate end.

So... back to the lost city of the Suel. The city might have been destroyed by any number of calamities instantly or over a long period. The locals eventually drifted back and used the ruins as foundations to build again. This process could have repeated itself several time, and the legend could have sprung up of the original citiy being in the Suss to explain why no one could find it.

Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:30 pm

Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:50 pm

Or, perhaps the Suss was once much larger than it is today and covered more of what is now the Wild Coast, including the current location of Badwall...

SirXaris

Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:43 pm

Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:56 pm

Nellisir, that would only have been after the plague of froghemoths.

Sir Xaris, that is an excellent idea.