It's a bit of a mess, isn't it? I think the Olman themselves are kind of a mess, the result of shoehorning a module into the setting that doesn't really fit with it. It's the only Greyhawk race, other than the Rhennee, that's such a blatant pastiche of a real-world ethnic group.
But anyway, we have a bunch of different possible versions of the Olman pantheon. From The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, we have the following:
C1 Olman Deities
Hurakan (a Maya deity)
Camazotz (the primary god of the Tamoachan temple, a Maya god)
Zotzilaha (the god who the temple was originally dedicated to)
Apocatequil, god of the moons and lightning
Coatlicue, the serpent skirted, found on page 16
An unnamed coyote god
An unnamed crab-headed god
An unnamed alligator-headed god
An unnamed feathered warrior god
An unnamed jaguar god
An unnamed sun-god in a feathered robe
A bare-breasted woman paired with the sun-god
An unnamed dual-god, the supreme god, god of creation
Xilonen, hairy mother-goddess of corn (a sentient polyp)
Kukulkan, the feathered serpent (another Maya deity)
Tlazoteotl, mother goddess of the earth (actually a gibbering mouther)
What's notable in this module is the lack of distinction between true gods and monsters that the Olman have decided were gods. The crab-headed god might well be Kalka-Kylla, a giant hermit crab found on page 6. Tlazoteotl is a gibbering mouther, Xilonen is a giant polyp, and the module contains other creatures that might well have been worshiped as gods of some sort, like Nanahuatcin, a gas spore known as "the sun," and Tecuiztecatl, a giant snail known as the "Lord of Snails," who "in ancient lore" was considered to be a relation of the moon. But it's just a giant snail. There's also Chitza-Atlan, some kind of underworld guardian whose offspring is a mummified centaur.
Also, if the Olman worshiped both Aztec and Maya gods, should there be at least two different Olman cultures, one based more on the Maya? Should more Maya deities be included in the pantheon?
One perfectly valid interpretation of C1 is that the Olman have no true gods, only monsters that, fear-ridden and superstitious, they've interpreted as gods. Perhaps they have fewer gods than they think they have. In those cases when a monster has been mistaken for a god, is there a real god somewhere? What does the god think of its monster proxy?
All this is modified by 1st edition Demigods & Deities, published the same year, which presented a somewhat different Central American Mythos as very real, albeit dwelling on a parallel material plane. It included, in brief:
Deities & Demigods Central American Mythos
Quetzalcoatl, god of the air (greater god, LN)
Camaxtli, god of fate (greater god, N)
Camazotz, god of bats (lesser god, CE)
Chalchiuhtlicue, goddess of running water and love (lesser goddess, CG)
Huhueteotl, god of fire (greater god, CE)
Huitzilopochtli, god of war (lesser god, N)
Itzamna, god of medicine (greater god, NG)
Mictlantecuhtli, god of death (greater god, LE)
Tezcatlipoca, god of the sun (greater god, CE)
Tlaloc, god of rain (greater god, LE)
Tlazolteotl, goddess of vice (lesser goddess, CE)
Xochipilli, god of gambling and chance (lesser god, N)
This doesn't exactly match the Tamoachan pantheon, but it's very possible that different Olman communities have different groups of gods.
Of course, a few years earlier, Gods, Demigods, and Heroes by the same authors had also given a version of the Aztec/Central American pantheon:
Gods, Demigods, and Heroes
Quetzacoatl/Kulkulkan, the feathered Serpent-God
Tonatuh, the Sun God
Huitzilopoohtli, divinity of War
Goddess of the Jade Petticoat
Tezcat, the Bat God
Mictlantecuhtli, God of Death
Erik Mona's old article on the imprisoned demigods drew from Tamoachan to fabricate new "canonical" Greyhawk demigods for the purpose of imprisoning them. In Erik Mona's article, Xilonen was identified as a NG demigoddess of corn, Chitza-Atlan was identified as a NE demigod of the underworld, and Tlazoteotl was identified as a CG demigoddess of the earth. Of course, there were problems with these identifications. None of these entities were actually identified as gods in C1; Xilonen was a polyp, Chitza-Atlan was some vague guardian with a centaur for a son, and Tlazoteotl was a gibbering mouther. If you assume that Deities & Demigods or its second edition equivalent described these gods as the "really" are throughout the D&D multiverse, including Oerth, then Tlazolteotl is actually a chaotic evil lesser or intermediate goddess; Xilonen is an alias of Centeotl, a CN intermediate goddess; and Chitza-Atlan, well, who knows? He wasn't a historical deity, so I'd tend toward not making him a deity at all, only an otherworldly servant of Mictlantecuhtli.
There are five other presentations of the Aztec/Central American/Olman pantheons in D&D.
2nd edition Legends & Lore gave us the following pantheon:
2nd edition L&L Aztec Pantheon
Ometeotl, god of creation (greater god, N)
Huitzilopochtli, god of war (intermediate god, NE)
Quetzalcoatl, god of air and wisdom (intermediate god, CG)
Mictlantecuhtli, god of death (intermediate god, N)
Tezcatlipoca, god of night and treachery (intermediate god, CE)
Tlaloc, god of rain and moisture (intermediate god, LE)
Chalchihuitlicue, goddess of flowing water, love, and children (intermediate goddess, CG)
Tlazolteotl, goddess of bodily pleasure and vice (intermediate goddess, CE)
Xochipilli, god of beauty, happiness, and good and bad luck (intermediate god, CG)
Xochiquetzal, goddess of love, flowers, and celebrations (intermediate goddess, NG)
Metzli, goddess of night and animal growth (intermediate goddess, NG)
Centeotl, goddess of agriculture, illness, and pain (intermediate goddess, CN)
Ixtlilton, god of health (lesser god, LG)
The Scarlet Brotherhood was the first real attempt to bring the Aztec mythos into Greyhawk. The Lost Shrine of Tamoachan gave us an inkling of Olman religious beliefs but it was so vague as to be almost useless without further research. However, Sean K. Reynolds' interpretation was controversial, since it fused several deities that Tamoachan had interpreted as separate entities, and didn't account for all of the Tamoachan gods. The Scarlet Broterhood confirmed that the Olman gods were real deities native to an alternate material plane who discovered Oerth and the Olman people some 3,000 years ago. Their power and influence is said to wax and wane over time, accounting for the lost temples where monsters are worshiped in their names.
The Scarlet Brotherhood Olman Gods
Tezcatlipoca (also known as Apocatequil in the Amedio Jungle), greater god of the sun, moons, night, scheming, and betrayals (CE)
Camazotz (also known as Zotzilaha in the Amedio Jungle), lesser god of bats (CE)
Huhueteotl, intermediate god of fire and the motion of time (CE)
Mictlantecuhli, greater god of death (LE)
Quetzalcoatl, greater god of the air, birds, and snakes (LN)
Tlaloc, intermediate god of rain (LE)
Xuxeteanlahucuxolazapaminaco, the Eye-God. Actually a greater gibbering mouther (N).
Dragon #283 listed, giving no detail apart from 3rd edition clerical domains, the following Aztec gods:
Dragon #283 Aztec gods
Quetzalcoatl, god of the air (LN)
Camatli, god of fate (N)
Camazotz, god of bats (CE)
Chalchiuhtlicue, goddess of water and love (CG)
Huhueteotl, god of fire (CE)
Huitzilopochtli, god of war (N)
Itzamna, god of medicine (NG)
Mictlantecuhtli, god of death (LE)
Tezcatlipoca, god of the sun (CE)
Tlaloc, god of rain (LE)
Tlazolteotl, god of vice (CE)
Xochipilli, god of luck (N)
Steven Conforti put together a "complete" list of deities acceptable in the Living Greyhawk campaign, which appeared in a PDF document available on the Wizards of the Coast website. Conforti's list was the list from The Scarlet Brotherhood, plus Hurukan, Tlazoteotl and Chitza-Atlan, though not with the same alignments that Mona had given them. In Conforti's document, Hurakan (spelled Hurakon there) is a chaotic neutral demigod, Tlazoteotl is a neutral intermediate deity, and Chitza-Atlan is a lawful evil demigod. He did miss the fairly easy-to-miss mention of Coatlicue, and he included Merikka and Stern Alia from Erik Mona's list pretty much directly.
The "Aztec Mythos" series in Dragon Magazines #352, #354, #356, and #358 described the following gods in detail (and mentioned a few others in passing). It was apparently intended to be read along with Dungeon Magazine's treatment of the Olman in the Savage Tide adventure path, and an image of Tonatiuh appears on the Isle of Dread in Dragon #145, cementing that deity as part of Paizohawk canon.
The Aztec Mythos, I-IV
Quetzalcoatl, god of air and civilization (greater god, LG)
Tezcatlipoca, god of night and mischief (greater god, CE)
Tlaloc, god of rain (intermediate god, LE)
Chalchihuitlicue, goddess of water, beauty, and youth (lesser goddess, NG)
Cihuacoatl, goddess of birth, death, and earth (intermediate goddess, N)
Huitzilopochtli, god of war (lesser god, LE)
Tonatiuh, god of the sun (intermediate god, NE)
Xipetotec, god of agriculture and sacrifice (intermediate god, LN)
When I was trying to list all the official Olman gods in the wiki, I restricted my list to deities that had been mentioned in Greyhawk sources (including Ometeotl, since he was obviously the "dual-god" mentioned in C1). The brief mention of Tonatiuh in Savage Tide merited his inclusion. I considered the Living Greyhawk list to be canon, since it was published on the WotC website, which was a bit frustrating to me since I disagree with some of Conforti's Olman conclusions. And now this post is ridiculously long, so I'll save creating what I think the Olman pantheon should look like for another one.
To be honest this sums up the one thing, possibly the only thing, that I don't like about the Greyhawk setting. Too many gods and god-like beings.
IMC they've been chopped mercilessly and I really like the thread somewhere else which theorises that some gods in different pantheons may be one and the same.
This is, of course, just personal taste; one thing I like about George R. R. Martin's Westeros is the idea of seven gods or seven aspects of the same god which may or may not even exist.
So, my vote goes to other (whichever list is smallest) purely on my gut reaction to such things, although I quite like the Monsters option given the time to think about how to incorporate it.
FWIW, here's the list I went with for my 1E Deitybase™:
Apocatequil, N lesser god of the moon & lightning
Camazotz (aka Zotz or Zotzilaha), CE lesser god of bats & evil
Chitza-Atlan, NE(LE) demigod of centaurs, guarding the underworld, & the dead
Coatlicue, an aspect of Beory
Huhueteotl, CE greater god of fire & motion of time
Huitzilopochtli, N(E) lesser god of war
Hurakan, CN demigod of floods & unrestrained fury
Kukulkan (aka Quetzalcoatl), LN greater god of air, birds, & snakes
Mictlantecuhtli, LE greater god of death
Ometeotl, N greater god of creation
Tezcatlipoca, CE greater god of the sun
Tlaloc, LE greater god of rain
Tlazoteotl, CE lesser goddess of earth, filth, & vice
Xilonen, CN intermediate goddess of agriculture, illness, & pain
Thanks I started that thread on the WOTC boards back in 2004. Yes I believe many gods still exist though maybe by different names. So I have Lendor and Istus as the same deity Time and faith interact relativity well.
With humanoids Grummush could be Hextor or Incabulos more for the symbol than anything else. Or Maybe Grummush is the god and Hextor is one of his portfolios.
Olman's got even more deity dilemmas than the average Greyhawk fan. But yes I would say if using a real world example either Mayan or Aztec not both unless you go in a completely different direction. I can see unusual monsters being real life deities to these people in some regards perhaps the Suel appear god-like to them as well.
Primordial gods similar to a long lost Dragon issue on such deities. King Kong was worshipped as a deity in the Jungle. Perhaps these Primordial beings are similar to Quasi or demi godlike status.
Ragr,
Primordial gods similar to a long lost Dragon issue on such deities. King Kong was worshipped as a deity in the Jungle. Perhaps these Primordial beings are similar to Quasi or demi godlike status.
I like primordial deities for these people.
Much like Zargon in The Lost City, though that lends itself well to Suel eeking out an existance under the Sea of Dust rather than the Olman.
I actually like the wide variety of Gods with overlapping portfolios. I feel that it adds some depth to the human cultures, and provides background based on which group(s) settled where. I find setting like FR where there is one pantheon a little to set.
I agree that one pantheon, especially using the same names, across an area the size of the Flanaess would be ludicrous.
I like the GH deities table, in various forms, that lists the gods by commonality of worship and have always assumed that those listed as "C" or common are not necessarily widely worshipped but commonly known by the same name.
In retrospect, my problem with the number of deities is more to do with the accepted fact of their existence in most campaigns or published supplements and adventures. To me this denies a campaign a fantastic opportunity for theological strife; in essence every god is "as listed" and becomes a little cardboard cut-out.
I can imagine a really interesting campaign where a worshipper/cleric of Istus travels to the Olman lands and sets out to convince the Olman people that Camaxtli is actually Istus by another name; not to mention a different sex. And, who's to say that said priest won't have an alarming revelation when they find some form of evidence that Istus is actually likely to be Camaxtli. And this is just one of many possibilities including denying the existence of any gods. This can't easily happen as written because the game assumes that the two deities are seperate entities and are "officially" listed as so.
My usual caveat applies here; this is just a matter of taste and I think mine divides somewhat from the more popular assumptions about GH.
I went with "Just the C1 Gods" because I regard C1 as the most canon treatment of the the Olman, and I love the idea of monsters as gods. Given that this seems like a good combination of the two. I'm glad Sir Xaris made the comparison to Zargon. This thinking ties in well with the article on "Small Gods" in Dragon # 293. Maybe that's the one Argon was referring to?
Personally, I really hate the shoehorning of real world gods/devils into a fictional setting, but that bus has already left the station. I'd go with keeping the names and maybe a passing similarity to the real world counterparts (much like what's been done with many of the demons and devils). I'd also be really tempted to make the "alien" Olman gods rather "far-realmsy" to make them truly alien rather than just from some alternate prime material plane. Then again, I'm a sucker for the Cthulhu-esque.
I emphatically agree with Ragr in the sense that there are too many gods in Greyhawk (and most other settings), though in a different manner. I have no problem with the long laundry list of names--each culture should have its own pantheon. However, in a setting where the god are incontrovertibly real, it seems to me that gods of different pantheons with parallel portfolios should be the same actual god (in most instances)--just worshiped under different names and aspects. However that's going really far astray from the topic at hand. ;)
Something I like about Greyhawk's pantheons is that instead of there being a single god of thieves or a single god of the sun (or whatever), there are multiple deities contending over the same portfolio, increasing the potential for conflict. One drawback to this is that with multiple pantheons, it's basically impossible to have a single concise creation myth. Oerth is left with competing versions of the truth, and gods who are uninclined to make things any clearer. And this does (deliberately, I think) make gods smaller. No single god is the unambiguous source of anything, and any claims the gods make that they created the universe or any of its major features become less credible.
One criterion I'd like to add in selecting Olman deities, though, is I'd like there to be a complete myth cycle. So many of the stories about Aztec gods depend on other Aztec gods that I'd like to add the others in just so their myths can be complete. That said, there are a lot more Aztec deities than anyone needs, even the Aztecs, and there are definitely more Olman deities than anyone needs in C1.
Speaking of the C1 deities, though, I believe I've identified them all.
Hurakan, god of floods
Camazotz/Zotzilaha/Zotz (used interchangeably)
Apocatequil, god of the moons and lightning
Coatlicue, the serpent skirted
Huehuecoyotl (the coyote god)
Kalka-Kylla (a giant crab)
Huhueteotl (the alligator-headed god)
Huitzilopochtli (both the feathered warrior god and the unnamed sun-god)
Tezcatlipoca (the jaguar god, also patron of the Smoking Mirror)
Coyolzauhqui (the bare-breasted goddess of night, paired with Huitzilopochtli in the sacred ball court)
Ometeotl (the dual-god)
Xilonen, hairy mother-goddess of corn (a sentient polyp)
Kukulkan, the feathered serpent
Tlazoteotl, mother goddess of the earth (a gibbering mouther)
Nanahuatcin, a gas spore
Tecuiztecatl, a giant snail
Chitza-Atlan, guardian of the underworld
Mictlantecuhtli (implied, as lord of Mictlan)
Now, some of these are definitely monsters, rather than gods, and I'll ignore them in any gods list, but I'm trying to be comprehensive here. I know I just said I liked having multiple gods compete over the same portfolio, but I really think as long as I'm revising that Hurakan can be turned into an aspect of Tlaloc, and Huhueteotl can be the same as Camaxtli, who has an identical place in the Aztec pantheon as ancient god of fire and time. Mictlantecuhtli and Zotz could be merged into a single god of bats and the underworld.
So anyway, I'd strip down the Olman pantheon to something like:
Ometeotl, god of creation
Camaxtli/Huhueteotl, now-dead god of fire, time, and father of the gods
Coatlicue, wife of Camaxtli and mother of the gods
Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan, god of air
Mictlantecuhtli/Chitza-Atlan/Camazotz and his wife, Mictlanchihuatl (worshiped together)
Tlaloc/Hurakan and his wife, Chalchihuitlicue
Huehuecoyotl/Xolotl, "Old Man Coyote"
Huitzilopochtli, god of war
Tonatiuh, god of the sun
Coyolzauhqui/Meztli, goddess of night and animal growth
Tlazolteotl, goddess of vice
Tezcatlipoca, god of treachery
On the other hand, I'd probably replace Quetzalcoatl and Tlaloc with the Monster Mythology gods Jazirian and Merrshaulk, and I'm not certain the Olmans need any gods other than those two. Their pantheon could be rounded out with adopted Suel and Touv deities, plus any monsters or Lovecraftian elder things they happened to encounter. Including Camaxtli, I guess, since there's that major bat-kingdom down there.
I like the idea of an Olman Blibdoolpoolp cult, actually. I can imagine an isolated community interbreeding with the kuo-toa, as in "The Shadow Over Innsmouth."
The "Aztec Mythos" series in Dragon Magazines #352, #354, #356, and #358 described the following gods in detail (and mentioned a few others in passing). It was apparently intended to be read along with Dungeon Magazine's treatment of the Olman in the Savage Tide adventure path, and an image of Tonatiuh appears on the Isle of Dread in Dragon #145, cementing that deity as part of Paizohawk canon.
The Aztec Mythos, I-IV
Quetzalcoatl, god of air and civilization (greater god, LG)
Tezcatlipoca, god of night and mischief (greater god, CE)
Tlaloc, god of rain (intermediate god, LE)
Chalchihuitlicue, goddess of water, beauty, and youth (lesser goddess, NG)
Cihuacoatl, goddess of birth, death, and earth (intermediate goddess, N)
Huitzilopochtli, god of war (lesser god, LE)
Tonatiuh, god of the sun (intermediate god, NE)
Xipetotec, god of agriculture and sacrifice (intermediate god, LN)
When I was trying to list all the official Olman gods in the wiki, I restricted my list to deities that had been mentioned in Greyhawk sources (including Ometeotl, since he was obviously the "dual-god" mentioned in C1). The brief mention of Tonatiuh in Savage Tide merited his inclusion. I considered the Living Greyhawk list to be canon, since it was published on the WotC website, which was a bit frustrating to me since I disagree with some of Conforti's Olman conclusions. And now this post is ridiculously long, so I'll save creating what I think the Olman pantheon should look like for another one.
According to David Schwartz, there were 2 more issues of "Aztec Mythos" planned, but due to the death of Dragon he decided to release them online, and posted them to the Paizo forums. He presented 3 more gods, along with mentions of several minor ones:
Mictlantecuhtli, god of the dead (LN)
Xiuhtecuhtli/Huehueteotl, god of fire and time (N)
Xochipilli, god of flowers, birds and music (CG)
Personally, I like the version from Aztec Mythos better, since I felt other treatments lumped far too many gods into the evil camp (yes, I know the RL worhip rites were often apalling, but so were the rites of several other gods listed as N or G). I also found the idea that they lived on a "parallel Material Plane" a bit silly, and I've been working on assigning them homes in the Outer Planes like all the other gods. I've also considered the idea of merging Quetzalcoatl with Jazirian, since they seem to be very similar. That would also add some sense of "outsiderness" to Quetzalcoatl among the other gods, which fits into an idea I got recently from reading Pantheons of the Megaverse.
Something I like about Greyhawk's pantheons is that instead of there being a single god of thieves or a single god of the sun (or whatever), there are multiple deities contending over the same portfolio, increasing the potential for conflict. One drawback to this is that with multiple pantheons, it's basically impossible to have a single concise creation myth. Oerth is left with competing versions of the truth, and gods who are uninclined to make things any clearer. And this does (deliberately, I think) make gods smaller. No single god is the unambiguous source of anything, and any claims the gods make that they created the universe or any of its major features become less credible.
I agree with this in the main; I like the welter of GH gods with competing portfolios. To me, it is more realistic or put another way more evocative of the various myth cycles on Earth that, if they were read together, would see competing and overlapping portfolios.
With respect to monsters as gods in the Olman mythos, the most literal reading would debunk these "gods" as nothing more than monsters. An alternate reading could have these monsters as avatars or "aspects" (3rd Edition speak) of of genuine gods. I prefer the latter thought as it more supports than undercuts the Olman religion and pantheon. _________________ GVD
My problem with considering them avatars is that they seem, in the case of the gibbering mouther and the polyp, to have little or nothing in common with their namesakes, and in the case of the snail, the crab, and the gas spore (and perhaps the centaur) to have no truly divine equivalents at all. If the Olman deities are real, it seems likely that, as SKR sort of suggested, their power on Oerth waxes and wanes with the cycles of the stars from wence they came, growing as their home star ascends in the heavens and shrinking as it recedes, or with the succession of suns in Aztec myth. During some centuries the Olman gods can not answer their priests and their temples become jungle-shrouded ruins. In desperation, the people fall into superstition and mistake powerful monsters for their lost gods. During periods of greater divine activity the people turn once again to their true gods, but the monsters lurk still deep underground, in the temples that have become their living tombs, dreaming of the days when sacrifices flowed freely.
Along the same lines, the star of the Olman deities may only be visible from the southern hemisphere and the tropics, explaining why that faith never spread very far into the Flanaess.
My problem with considering them avatars is that they seem, in the case of the gibbering mouther and the polyp, to have little or nothing in common with their namesakes, and in the case of the snail, the crab, and the gas spore (and perhaps the centaur) to have no truly divine equivalents at all. . . . . . . the people fall into superstition and mistake powerful monsters for their lost gods. . . .
Along the same lines, the star of the Olman deities may only be visible from the southern hemisphere and the tropics, explaining why that faith never spread very far into the Flanaess.
On the first point, I don't see a need for divine equivalents or having anything in common. A servitor/herald etc. can be just about anything the deity chooses.
Similarly, a manifestation of the deity (avatar/aspect) can be variable.
I have not done so but researching how these monsters make reasonable representatives of the gods would be an interesting project.
The "superstitution and mistake" argument strikes me as too pat an answer and it fundamentally suggests the Olman are not wise enough to distinguish between a true god and a powerful monster. If we were talking Dakons, I would more readily accept such a characterization but not the Olman, who in their culture seem sophisticated enough to be able to tell the different between a god and, for example, a big snail.
I do really like the last point as an explaination for why the Olman never spread farther north - the star of the Olman deities is less visible from the northern hemisphere. _________________ GVD
Along the same lines, the star of the Olman deities may only be visible from the southern hemisphere and the tropics, explaining why that faith never spread very far into the Flanaess.
Love this rationale for the olman and it is also in keeping with the natural rhythms of the civilization.
The "superstitution and mistake" argument strikes me as too pat an answer and it fundamentally suggests the Olman are not wise enough to distinguish between a true god and a powerful monster. If we were talking Dakons, I would more readily accept such a characterization but not the Olman, who in their culture seem sophisticated enough to be able to tell the different between a god and, for example, a big snail.
I actually think the dakon are every bit as sophisticated as the Olman. Both cultures have fallen considerably from their height, the infrastructure that once sustained their civilization having crumbled and their lands beset by monsters, but I think they're both equally sophisticated and equally savage at this point.
I do think there's a bit of a contradiction in what you say, though: on one hand, an Olman deity might take any form, no matter how improbable, but on the other hand an Olman worshiper is supposed to be able to identify forms their gods would never take? Exactly how? My point is that the Olman deities have waned in power on this world, and no longer answer their prayers or confirm their divinations. In such a situation, the people of the Flanaess would be no less vulnerable and desperate.
I'm not arguing that the Olman worship false gods because they're savage and stupid. The people of the Flanaess can and have done the same thing - for example, the false reptile cult in Against the Cult of the Reptile God. With Merikka silent because of her imprisonment beneath Castle Greyhawk, the hapless people of Orlane fell prey to the naga's trickery. I'd also argue that when the cult of Alia in Medegia fell into error and heresy, it was because Alia had become imprisoned, and gone silent.
Then, of course, there's the Mother in the Tunnel of Slerotin. The Lerara may not be at the same cultural level as the Olman anymore (or they might be), but it's a very similar situation: desperation breeds monster-worship.
The people of Oerth aren't used to silent gods, and in the Amedio and the Flanaess alike, they may be prone to desperate error.
The "superstition and mistake" argument strikes me as too pat an answer and it fundamentally suggests the Olman are not wise enough to distinguish between a true god and a powerful monster.
I think it fundamentally suggests that people are not wise. I need only point to Cult of the Reptile God for a similar example. If people can worship a naga, they can worship some other sort of powerful monster. Or they can worship The Claw.
OOOO! You have been chosen by The Claw! _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Below are just observations drawn from ongoing research into C1 and its background material (as such, what's below will run counter to some accepted canon). Please don't consider this comment to be a comprehensive set of rulings - create what's best for your players!
It's important to remember that the authors 'mixed' a number of Mesoamerican cultures (and others) into the content. This is the only real 'flaw' in the authors' efforts - it makes researching this extremely time consuming and difficult.
In response to comments above, here's what I found:
* The 'source' cultures are extremely sophisticated. Do not let the feathers fool you. In addition to the historical precedents of Aztec, Mayan, etc. societies, remember that they are also extremely adept at chemistry and magic. Were it not for the catastrophe implied in the module's content, there is no reason they could not have grown their empire even further (although probably limited to the extremely astute 'star' observation in the comments above!)
* The 'parallel material plane' that the gods reside in is most likely the mythical Tamoanchan from Earth history. Because the ruins of C1 are in the Olman capital of Tamoachan, this can get confusing, but it is not inaccurate. The mythology, by the time of the Aztecs, contained no less than four separate locations near the Gulf Coast and inland, that were called 'Tamoanchan' in reverence to the mythical location. You can see where it all gets muddled. It is not clearly indicated whether or not the Olman city of Tamoachan is, in fact, the literal home of their gods (but this would make great adventure material!)
* The Olman, as implied in C1, do not worship monsters, but the way C1's text is written is easy to interpret that way. The monsters are also not avatars - in the Western sense of the term. Mesoamerican mythology carries a concept of 'replication' whereby a divinity or divine spirit can reside in multiple 'vessels' simultaneously and infinitely. This is why Catholicism could take root in Earthly Mesoamerican 'areas', the Trinity fits seemlessly with Replication - in the one source I read, the author gives a great example: an Aztec could offer sacrifices to a number of gods, pray to others in his pantheon, and then take part in a Catholic mass with complete sincerity and without any spiritual conflicts. Because of replication, the monsters will carry the spiritual power of the deities they represent, and would command the reverence of any Olman that encountered them. Note the the Snail in the lower levels is stated as 'believing' that he has a great history. In function, they are temple guardians - no more. If they were truly 'divine', I think the introductory text of C1 would indicate 'special abilities/resistances' for all the entities present.
* The 'unidentified' gods indicated in the 'diorama' entrance room are references to other mythologies, in my opinion. The coyote is the most obvious one - American Indian mythology. It's possible that these are older gods ('old ones') in an unspecified pre-Olman pantheon or (more likely) are gods from 'conquered' territories (quite possibly taken over without hostility as the Earth Mayan/Aztec empires didn't always require force/hostility to control neighbors). The Olman, as a people and an empire, are a seriously powerful force - and they are not necessarily benevolent at all. No Spanish conquistador would have a chance against the Olman, even if they had machine guns!
Kudos to the King Kong analogy and the Zargon reference above - the King Kong example is an important one, particularly with mythologies as 'liquid' as the Aztec/Maya/Inca. What is the difference between worshipping a monster and a 'true' deity? Plenty of adventure possibilities in that question. (+1 for the N1 mentions!) The Lost City reference is also great - the source research for Tamoachan could easily be used to turn the Lost City into a richer adventure or simply a larger one. It would be a major undertaking, but an entire campaign could be created by fusing C1, B4, and I1's content!
@rasgon: Excellent work on the deities. The only detail I could offer is that Zotzilaha is more likely a place - I believe it's the 'house of bats' found in Xibalba, the underworld. I commend you for the star observation, as the skies hold a LOT of power to these peoples (but, sad to say, aren't utilized in C1 because it is a subterranean adventure!)
Astronomy and planetary cosmology is critical to these cultures. Anyone doing research should start there. The more research done on the deities, the more incomplete Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore seems...
@Azzy1974: I have to agree - C1's authors would have made it easier for campaign DM's if they had condensed the multiple mythologies into a single fictional pantheon of true Olman gods.
One last note: it is logically impossible for D&D's 'alignment' systems (of any edition) to function as metrics for these pantheons. The historical belief structures expect deities to have 'good' AND 'evil' components, but absent is what (in D&D terms) would be called 'neutrality'. The Eastern Yin/Yang concept is on the right track, but the English language doesn't carry the proper descriptors for how the gods act/react. The reason why certain analyses of the pantheons seems to indicate 'too much evil' is because the game has a lot of Judeo-Christian, Western concepts 'baked in' to it. The 'evil' results are actually correct through the lense of expectations - it's the TSR/1970's expectations that are faulty. Even the familiar element of blood sacrifice has very deep symbolic meanings that are not evil from a wider view of these cultures' perceptions of their own physicality and belief structures.
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