This is a very minor point, and I'm probably being a bit pedantic or at least overly worrisome in asking, however I would like to know your opinion on whether or not you think there would have been archaeologists in Greyhawk?
Specifically, around 585 CY in the City of Greyhawk, at Grey College. It mentions the 'great realms of learning' being present at the College in Gem of the Flanaess, but not this field specifically.
Given that civilization had been present for centuries in the Flanaess, and cultures had been present for millennia - plus all those handy cairns to investigate! - I have a feeling it would be 'in theme' to have an archaeologist present.
It's important to me as I'm setting up a minor excursion for the PCs and wanted one of the NPCs they encountered to be an archaeologist as part of the faculty at the Grey College.
Sure it would be fine. Make archeology a specialty within history. There was an old adventure called "Citadel by the Sea" in Dragon #78 which, featured an ancient human citadel that was abandoned, then used by elves, who then lost to to invading orcs long ago. Crommard, a human sage/archeologist interested in orc history/artifacts, hooks up with the PCs who help him avoid being lynched by the local villagers for disturbing the cursed site. While not set it in Greyhawk specifically, I set the citadel southwest of the Drachensgrab Hills on the coast of the Azure Sea, but I don't recall having Crommard be from any specific place(as it wasn't necessary to decide that at the time). That adventure turned out great.
So, the archeology angle definitely can work. There is also the organization called The Seekers who have archeologist leanings themselves. They are a bit shady though, but that my suit what you want to do with your campaign, and they do have a base in the City of Greyhawk. Check the Greyhawk Wiki for more info on The Seekers. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
In addition to Cebrion's references, you will find that in the Dungeon #145 article, Exag: City of Clay, there is mention of one 'Baerne', an archeologist/explorer of disrepute akin to 'Beloch' of Raiders of the Lost Ark fame.
Any sage that actually adventures as a means of gathering more knowledge could be considered an archeologist, in my opinion.
That fits in pretty well with the stated purpose of the Academy of Lore at the University of Loftwick in the Yeomanry. According the the Yeomanry Glossary, their purpose is said to be:
"The Academy of Lore is a branch of the University at Loftwick dedicated to exploring, mapping, and bringing back artifacts from the extensive number of Suel (and other) ruins that dot the Yeoman countryside. As a secondary task, they are expected to protect these same sites from those who would exploit those treasures for personal gain and without permission of the Academy or the Yeoman government."
There's no reason why Grey's College, or the University of the Flannaess can't have their own versions of the Academy of Lore. Castle Greyhawk and the Cairn Hills offer ample reasons for them to.
Thank you so much, everyone! Those replies are very helpful and informative. It's great to know there have been past adventures set up involving archaeologists and yes, as you say Mystic-Scholar, such an institution would indeed be a great way to get the PCs into all kinds of interesting trouble. Mwahaha.
Thanks also for the Dragon Magazine article references, and I'll head on over to the wiki to learn more about the Seekers.
Aren't the Seekers archaeologists, although they are more of the raid the tomb-steal the magic kind?
They are based in Urnst but have lodges all over the Western Flanaess including in Greyhawk itself so they could make interesting allies or enemies for Grey College archaeologists.
"Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" names Geld's Maps -- over on Cargo Street, near the Green Dragon Inn -- as the home of the Seeker's Lodge in the City of Greyhawk.
Flint - Yes, archaeologists would probably squirm to hear such tomb raiding types be given the same name and profession! But it is nice to see that within GH it is certainly acceptable and part of canon to have this academic field represented, including the exciting artifact-seeking types.
Mystic-Scholar, I need to get my hands on a copy of "Expedition" it's on my wish list. But so noted: Geld's Maps (and of course it had to be by the Green Dragon Inn!). Definitely good to know
Am looking forward to fleshing out an Academy of Lore at Grey's College; it's funny how a little one-shot diversion adventure has become a fully-fledged deal now in our campaign, with a further development of Grey College to boot. Well, that's the plan at least - we'll see what the players make of the hooks I've planted!
Welcome to the boards! Nice topic Archeologist's work for me. In fact many adventurers can be sort out by these individuals. Who else would have need of a group of individuals willing to explore the un or under explored areas and territories.
If you have yet to do so please say hi in our welcome to Greyhawk forum. If you have the time stop by for Thursday night greytalk, you can follow the link on your left under the features section.
Thanks for the warm welcome and also your thoughts on archaeology in GH. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for them to be around, in more forms than one: faculty as part of an Academy of Lore, solitary tomb raiders, groups of like-minded individuals seeking rare artifacts, etc.
I probably won't go so far as to having PCs being required to get archaeological consent prior to building any strongholds, but they can still be part of the game without getting too 'real'!
Will definitely look to join greytalk at some point, it would be great. I'm in NZ so that'd probably be Friday midday for us, which works for me tomorrow. Maybe see you there.
I, for my part, would undoubtedly say that Archaeologists would exist in GH ... Which is clearly a shared opinion..
But, I would also add that we - as a species - have almost always been interested in investigating ruins of older cultures. Even in the middle ages there were groups that did such. While back then they wouldn't have used a term like "Archaeology" since it is a fairly modern word, they certainly would've had "sages" that were experts (and I use "expert" loosely) in their field of study. In a fantasy realm filled with divination magic, I firmly believe that something they would research is ruins. Just because we are a curious species. While "anthropology" might've been another issue, archaeology is a certainty. _________________ Owner and Lead Admin: https://greyhawkonline.com<div>Editor-in-Chief of the Oerth Journal: https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal</div><div>Visit my professional art gallery: https://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com</div>
Good call, Icarus, and perhaps that's what was giving me most pause about it: the term archaeologist itself, and not the concept.
I like the earlier suggestion of an "Academy of Lore" and certainly the archaeologist's interests are within the purview of a sage, or historian, so maybe to keep it more of a Greyhawk feel I'll not call this new NPC an archaeologist.
My friend is currently running the Return to the Tomb of Horrors campaign, in which I play Lilah Kaisarenn, an alumni of the University of Magical Arts and a professor of history at the Grey College. As a junior member of the history department, Lilah is usually sent to do field work (i.e., tomb, temple and ruin exploration, raiding and pillaging) for the more senior (and typically decrepit) professors of history. This has been a double-edged sword for her... While she loves the excitement and the hands-on aspect of field work, part of her would rather a sedentary lifestyle with plenty of creature comforts and occasional social functions (alas!).
Once she returns from (assuming she survives) Acererak's multi-planar megalomania and completes her assignment of collecting Flan relics from the Pre-Migration period in the Old Aerdy East, she'll return to her own project concerning the effect of Migrations in Western Oerik and the history of the cultures therein. Of course that means more traveling (and likely crossing the Sea of Dust)... a wizard's life affords so little rest and comfort.
Azzy - wow!! What an awesome character and backstory. May just be tempted to insert her in my own campaign as an NPC, if that'd be all right with you? Really inspired by what you've done with her there.
Best of luck on the Return to the Tomb of Horrors. I read through that boxed set a few years back and was blown away by what had become of Acererak - and what potential players would be up against.
The trek across the Sea of Dust sounds great, too, I've been hoping to maybe make that a potential option for the Epic tier of this campaign when my players get there. Fascinating bit of Greyhawk lore there and so much you could do with it.
Azzy - wow!! What an awesome character and backstory. May just be tempted to insert her in my own campaign as an NPC, if that'd be all right with you? Really inspired by what you've done with her there.
Sure... And thanks. :) I'm having a lot of fun with her (that sounds really bad, I know). I should add that she of a mostly Suel extraction and chooses Wee Jas has her patron deity. She's also carrying a few bottles of fine vintage wine that she liberated from Desitisso's old haunt... she looks forward to celebrating her success (read: survival) once she returns to civilization.
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Best of luck on the Return to the Tomb of Horrors. I read through that boxed set a few years back and was blown away by what had become of Acererak - and what potential players would be up against.
Oh god... the horrors. Nearly had a TPK last session--the beefy dwarven fighter went down in two or the rounds, the cleric (and most of the party) got held and couldn't do anything and it it was down to the druid doing druidy things and me with my vast love for delayed blast fireball (and all things fire related).
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The trek across the Sea of Dust sounds great, too, I've been hoping to maybe make that a potential option for the Epic tier of this campaign when my players get there. Fascinating bit of Greyhawk lore there and so much you could do with it.
That's one of the things that I really dig about Greyhawk. The different ethnic groups, languages and Migrations lend a sort of verisimilitude to the setting that isn't in a lot of settings. I've taking fleshing out the Western Oerik as once of my projects and I want to give the same sort of verisimilitude. I'll be using Lilah as my mouthpiece for the project in that Pluffet Smedger sort of way (but way more opinionated). :D
... I'll be using Lilah as my mouthpiece for the project in that Pluffet Smedger sort of way (but way more opinionated).
Azzy - Trust me, the Pluffet Smedger that we all know and love is rather opinionated. You ought to hear the horrible things he says about Rhenee!!
(By the way, in case you don't know, Pluffet Smedger is used as a nom d'plume by the site administrator, and renowned GH published author, Gary Holian.)
Heh, I wish he'd post more often--I love to hear his opinions. :)
BTW, I finally checked out your art thread--very nice.
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