FYI, Harold sent an even longer note again this weekend: see the original post for the thread link. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
This is fascinating! I love the description of excavating the blocked stair, and the expression of the explorer's/adventurer's mindset: if they took this effort to block it, what's down there must be really cool! I feel like this guy would have made it to the bottom of the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. And note it took them over three years from discovery of the stone slab at the top of the stair to entering the vault...extraordinary patience (and funding!) required for that. I can't see adventurers being that patient, though they have recourse to things like Disintegrate and Passwall...
Also just a great example of the kinds of reading that inspire adventures. Makes me want to read through old (or new) copies of National Geographic.
Thanks Allan for your pursuit of such things, and indirect thanks to Mr. Johnson.[/i]
And note it took them over three years from discovery of the stone slab at the top of the stair to entering the vault...extraordinary patience (and funding!) required for that.[/i]
That's because "Real World" archaeologist use trowels and paint brushes, so as to preserve the structure. As you, yourself, pointed out . . .
Chevalier wrote:
I can't see adventurers being that patient, though they have recourse to things like Disintegrate and Passwall...[/i]
Oh, I know _why_ it took them that long, but I'm still impressed with their dedication! And some archaeologists weren't so picky about the structure, so long as they found some treasure in the vaults to help pay for the expedition.
About the adventurers - of course they're going to be thinking smash 'n' grab, unless their roleplaying calls for something else. However, they've also got more to worry about in the course of their exploration, swift as it may be: curses, undead servitors, vampires inside of sarcophagi instead of rotting bones, stoppered bottles with demons inside, and so on.
Not arguing, just musing on the interesting overlaps between the real world and adventurers here.
Indeed I was... between 5 and 10 years ago when Mar (Maria Deltorre, for the newbs) wrote this stuff that Harold's regurgitating without credit.
Between this forum, the greytalk discussion list, some chats with Marc Gonzalez on gt chat, and her own blog ( http://olmanifesto.blogspot.com ), absolutely everything that Harold is blathering about on enworld was researched and discussed by Mar, like I said, between 5 and 10 years ago, in sporadic bursts.
I really expect better behavior from "pros". _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
This is fascinating! I love the description of excavating the blocked stair, and the expression of the explorer's/adventurer's mindset: if they took this effort to block it, what's down there must be really cool! I feel like this guy would have made it to the bottom of the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. And note it took them over three years from discovery of the stone slab at the top of the stair to entering the vault...extraordinary patience (and funding!) required for that. I can't see adventurers being that patient, though they have recourse to things like Disintegrate and Passwall...
[/i]
Just to clarify, while the 4e remake might touch on the idea of digging out the blocked stair, the original most certainly did not. The original is a very tight scheduled timed tournament. You have x number of minutes to escape or 'game over man'.
The digging out a blocked passage bit comes from an old issue of KODT, where the players obsess on a blocked hallway BA (the dm) admits was just random dungeon dressing.
On another note, I do agree about the usefulness and inspiration of old NatGeos. If you have a chance, pick up the DVD set of digital copies of the entire 1885-2008 (exact dates may differ, dont have the discs handy) magazine run. It's WELL worth the $75ish price tag, tons and tons of cool stuff to crib for a game. _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
I've never seen the 4th edition remake, or the KODT; I have seen the original, and I know it was a tournament setting. I should have specified that I was commenting on the general unlikelihood that adventurers, with their tendency to plow through obstacles (see: Robilar), would take the time that the archaeologist in the quoted article did.
Also I didn't get the sense that Harold Johnson was "regurgitating" old info - from the context of the linked article, I thought he was simply telling us was what his exact inspirations were when he, the coauthor, wrote the adventure. I appreciate the research others have done to piece it together, but I'm also interested in hearing the author's own recollection.
Indeed I was... between 5 and 10 years ago when Mar (Maria Deltorre, for the newbs) wrote this stuff that Harold's regurgitating without credit.
Between this forum, the greytalk discussion list, some chats with Marc Gonzalez on gt chat, and her own blog ( http://olmanifesto.blogspot.com ), absolutely everything that Harold is blathering about on enworld was researched and discussed by Mar, like I said, between 5 and 10 years ago, in sporadic bursts.
I really expect better behavior from "pros".
and
Chevalier wrote:
Also I didn't get the sense that Harold Johnson was "regurgitating" old info - from the context of the linked article, I thought he was simply telling us was what his exact inspirations were when he, the coauthor, wrote the adventure.
Chevalier's take is my own, but I wrote to Harold to see what his sources were (per my offline email to Rich), since he did mention digging around online because a lot of his original research materials were packed up in the garage. I'll let you all know what I find out.
chatdemon wrote:
On another note, I do agree about the usefulness and inspiration of old NatGeos. If you have a chance, pick up the DVD set of digital copies of the entire 1885-2008 (exact dates may differ, dont have the discs handy) magazine run. It's WELL worth the $75ish price tag, tons and tons of cool stuff to crib for a game.
I've looked at picking those up, from time to time, but haven't done so: I'm glad to hear that they're as inspiring and useful as I've thought they would be :D
Chevalier wrote:
I've never seen the 4th edition remake, or the KODT; I have seen the original, and I know it was a tournament setting.
Yeah, I haven't picked up the 4e version either. Anyone else checked it out yet? _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
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