On a lark, I purchased the first nine episodes of the D&D cartoon on DVD out of Wal-Mart's $5 bin. I've been watching them with my kids (really, only because my kids wanted to watch them... ) and am remembering why, as a teen-ager, I really didn't like them. However, I am finding them to be fun in a nostalgic way and have seen a few things that I didn't remember and either find entertaining or wish I hadn't been reminded of.
Here's a short list.
Things I despise:
1) A Thief and a Thief-Acrobat in the same party with no Cleric.
2) They never attack anything. Ever. Even the Ranger shoots his arrows at the enemy's feet to explode and knock them down so the party can run away.
3) The Cavalier is a coward. Cavaliers are immune to fear, for crying out loud! Of course, he might have been a little bit braver if Dungeon Master had given him a weapon of some kind to go with his shield.
4) The party of 1st level characters fights not only Venger in every episode, but their list of opponents includes, a beholder, a 200 foot tall iron golem, Tiamat, Lolth, Warduke, and a host of dozens of dragons all at once.
5) Presto, the Magic-User, pulls random spells out of his hat.
6) The dwarves speak like yoda.
7) Venger's Magic Missiles miss their targets every time the good guys duck.
8) The Thief's Cloak of Invisibility apparently causes her to Dimension Door as well as turn invisible.
9) One of the beholder's eye rays causes lava to flow up from the ground and form a magma river.
10) The party is always trying to find a way to return home. Why? I'd be doing everything I could to stay there!
11) Uni. 'nough said.
Things I find entertaining:
1) Warduke has a cameo in episode 5: In Search of Dungeon Master. He captures Dungeon Master (though this is later revealed to be planned by Dungeon Master himself). Warduke actually looks like a simple cartoon version of his much later Dungeon Magazine cover version, which I appreciate. He wields a sword that freezes an entire tree when struck and DM along with it. Hmmm...
2) Dungeon Master reminds me of Gary Gygax.
3) Um... Well, hopefully someone else can remind me of reasons I actually like those old cartoon episodes.
I think it just kind of reminds you of how much things needed to be toned down to make it on a kid's cartoon show. Heck, G.I. Joe is centered around trained military personal going up against a trained terrorist organization. This involves heavy gun fire and no one every gets shot. Sure vehicles get hit and everyone has time to parachute themselves out of their planes when they get shot down. Not to mention the good guys have long winded dialect and don't dodge or return fire in many scenes and the gun fire just keeps missing them. The only time someone got hit at all is when Serpentor hit Duke with a dart though a wooden door. So many cartoon tv shows for that era had things that made no sense at all.
So take what little things you can from it and enjoy it for what it is.
3) The Cavalier is a coward. Cavaliers are immune to fear, for crying out loud! Of course, he might have been a little bit braver if Dungeon Master had given him a weapon of some kind to go with his shield.
Ah, but you see, the cavalier is a protector, and while is acts cowardly most of the time, when it hits the fan he jumps right in front of the others and shields them from stuff like Tiamat's breath weapons. Think about that. A coward...jumping in front of others...to shield them from Tiamat's breath weapons. Not as cowardly as you might think.
There are all sorts of hidden lessons in the cartoon, and even the whiny, annoying, self-preserving Cavalier character has his redeeming qualities. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
leave it to the Big C to defend "eric" hehe he has a warm heart for all those Code and Order types hehe
I got the WHOLE set on DVD as a gag gift a few years back because they knew what a Big Fan of the game I am.... Have to say it was not EGG finest work, but considering the day and age ... He did manage to get it on Saturday morning Cartoons when most of the country thought D&D was akin to Devil Worship 101.
Besides I kinda liked Decheon... I think he may be a "relative"
No mention of Uni? Who wouldn't want a unicorn animals companion? Hm, do barbarians get animal companions?
Uni was mentioned. As briefly as I thought such mention deserved.
SirXaris wrote:
11) Uni. 'nough said.
Cebrion:
Cebrion wrote:
There are all sorts of hidden lessons in the cartoon, and even the whiny, annoying, self-preserving Cavalier character has his redeeming qualities.
Yes, I am seeing that as I watch through them more than once. There are also some rather humorous lines I'm catching now and then. My favorite so far is Presto's various magic incantations. The best - "Abracadoni! Hey noni noni!" Reminds me of Robin Hood, Men in Tights.
Wow how'd I miss that? It was late when I was posting, my eyes were playing tricks. Anyhoo, I'm a fan of old Saturday morning cartoons. I would change nothing about them personally.
There are all sorts of hidden lessons in the cartoon, and even the whiny, annoying, self-preserving Cavalier character has his redeeming qualities.
The Cavalier served the specific purpose of being a jerk.
A parents group pressured the network to give the show the message "The group is always right. The complainer is always wrong. Go along with the group."
The writer was forced to make Eric a whining, unappealing complainer who always disagreed with the group, and was always wrong.
The kids were all heroic — all but a semi-heroic member of their troupe named Eric. Eric was a whiner, a complainer, a guy who didn't like to go along with whatever the others wanted to do. Usually, he would grudgingly agree to participate, and it would always turn out well, and Eric would be glad he joined in. He was the one thing I really didn't like about the show.
So why, you may wonder, did I leave him in there? Answer: I had to.
As you may know, there are those out there who attempt to influence the content of childrens' television. We call them "parents groups," although many are not comprised of parents, or at least not of folks whose primary interest is as parents. Study them and you'll find a wide array of agendum at work...and I suspect that, in some cases, their stated goals are far from their real goals.
Nevertheless, they all seek to make kidvid more enriching and redeeming, at least by their definitions, and at the time, they had enough clout to cause the networks to yield. Consultants were brought in and we, the folks who were writing cartoons, were ordered to include certain "pro-social" morals in our shows. At the time, the dominant "pro-social" moral was as follows: The group is always right...the complainer is always wrong.
This was the message of way too many eighties' cartoon shows. If all your friends want to go get pizza and you want a burger, you should bow to the will of the majority and go get pizza with them. There was even a show for one season on CBS called The Get-Along Gang, which was dedicated unabashedly to this principle. Each week, whichever member of the gang didn't get along with the gang learned the error of his or her ways.
We were forced to insert this "lesson" in D & D, which is why Eric was always saying, "I don't want to do that" and paying for his social recalcitrance. I thought it was forced and repetitive, but I especially objected to the lesson. I don't believe you should always go along with the group. What about thinking for yourself? What about developing your own personality and viewpoint? What about doing things because you decide they're the right thing to do, not because the majority ruled and you got outvoted?
We weren't allowed to teach any of that. We had to teach kids to join gangs. And then to do whatever the rest of the gang wanted to do.
There are all sorts of hidden lessons in the cartoon, and even the whiny, annoying, self-preserving Cavalier character has his redeeming qualities.
The Cavalier served the specific purpose of being a jerk.
A parents group pressured the network to give the show the message "The group is always right. The complainer is always wrong. Go along with the group."
The writer was forced to make Eric a whining, unappealing complainer who always disagreed with the group, and was always wrong.
In same nations, the "complainer" who "does not go along with the group" is imprisoned, or executed.
The kids were all heroic — all but a semi-heroic member of their troupe named Eric. Eric was a whiner, a complainer, a guy who didn't like to go along with whatever the others wanted to do. Usually, he would grudgingly agree to participate, and it would always turn out well, and Eric would be glad he joined in. He was the one thing I really didn't like about the show.
So why, you may wonder, did I leave him in there? Answer: I had to.
As you may know, there are those out there who attempt to influence the content of childrens' television. We call them "parents groups," although many are not comprised of parents, or at least not of folks whose primary interest is as parents. Study them and you'll find a wide array of agendum at work...and I suspect that, in some cases, their stated goals are far from their real goals.
Nevertheless, they all seek to make kidvid more enriching and redeeming, at least by their definitions, and at the time, they had enough clout to cause the networks to yield. Consultants were brought in and we, the folks who were writing cartoons, were ordered to include certain "pro-social" morals in our shows. At the time, the dominant "pro-social" moral was as follows: The group is always right...the complainer is always wrong.
This was the message of way too many eighties' cartoon shows. If all your friends want to go get pizza and you want a burger, you should bow to the will of the majority and go get pizza with them. There was even a show for one season on CBS called The Get-Along Gang, which was dedicated unabashedly to this principle. Each week, whichever member of the gang didn't get along with the gang learned the error of his or her ways.
We were forced to insert this "lesson" in D & D, which is why Eric was always saying, "I don't want to do that" and paying for his social recalcitrance. I thought it was forced and repetitive, but I especially objected to the lesson. I don't believe you should always go along with the group. What about thinking for yourself? What about developing your own personality and viewpoint? What about doing things because you decide they're the right thing to do, not because the majority ruled and you got outvoted?
We weren't allowed to teach any of that. We had to teach kids to join gangs. And then to do whatever the rest of the gang wanted to do.
What a stupid thing to teach children.
[/quote]
And the damn thing is, they still force that same message.
The purpose of the Cavalier being as he was is not important to what I stated. Regardless of what he is like, the Cavalier is brave...when he needs to be.
But, he is certainly "Flashman brave". If you don't know who Flashman is, well, shame on you! _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Interesting; Eric was used as a point of discord and often he served as the "butt of the jokes". Some times his stubborness served to uncover some important aspect for the group - subtle subversion of the message.
As for no cleric; imagine the religious response, preachers used the popularitty of the game to raise their own images. So much so, that TSR changed demons and devils to Tanar'ri and Baatezu.
I don't blame the network for choosing not to open that can of worms and
TSR simply wanted to get the cartoon out there.
So much so, that TSR changed demons and devils to Tanar'ri and Baatezu.
I don't blame the network for choosing not to open that can of worms and
TSR simply wanted to get the cartoon out there.
LOL Agreed, So much for Social Tolerance And Yet 30 plus years later we are still here.....
Personally I have always found the cartoons as a "check brain at the door and just enjoy" element anyway.
My only "dislike" for the cartoons are IMO EGG got distracted with "managing" that piece of the business while Lorraine Williams and the Blumes dug a hole under him.
The purpose of the Cavalier being as he was is not important to what I stated. Regardless of what he is like, the Cavalier is brave...when he needs to be.
But, he is certainly "Flashman brave". If you don't know who Flashman is, well, shame on you!
Things I despise:
1) A Thief and a Thief-Acrobat in the same party with no Cleric.
2) They never attack anything. Ever. Even the Ranger shoots his arrows at the enemy's feet to explode and knock them down so the party can run away.
3) The Cavalier is a coward. Cavaliers are immune to fear, for crying out loud! Of course, he might have been a little bit braver if Dungeon Master had given him a weapon of some kind to go with his shield.
4) The party of 1st level characters fights not only Venger in every episode, but their list of opponents includes, a beholder, a 200 foot tall iron golem, Tiamat, Lolth, Warduke, and a host of dozens of dragons all at once.
5) Presto, the Magic-User, pulls random spells out of his hat.
6) The dwarves speak like yoda.
7) Venger's Magic Missiles miss their targets every time the good guys duck.
8) The Thief's Cloak of Invisibility apparently causes her to Dimension Door as well as turn invisible.
9) One of the beholder's eye rays causes lava to flow up from the ground and form a magma river.
10) The party is always trying to find a way to return home. Why? I'd be doing everything I could to stay there!
11) Uni. 'nough said...
-I don't think I've seen it sice the 1980s. You hit the high points, except:
12) The 1st (?) level Barbarian has a magic club. IIRC, that was a no-no in ADD2.
I think point #4 partly explains point #2. Would you take a bunch a rookies up against the stuff they kept running into? "Run Away! Run Away!" But I think there was an episode where they killed someone. It stuck in my mind because I had the same general observation (#2) you did; no one gets killed. Maybe someone will figure out what I'm remembering. There was even an episode where the bad guys were capturing unicorns for some nefarious purpose, but they just took their horns without killing them. Lame.
Presto needed a magic item to get spells because he couldn't actually study spells yet, not being a tarined magic user. Probably still a 0 level Apprentice. Maybe they were all still 0 level, except a Thief Acrobat had to be at least 6th level...
It's possible that we're putting far more thought into this than EGG did.
Crag wrote:
...As for no cleric; imagine the religious response, preachers used the popularitty of the game to raise their own images. So much so, that TSR changed demons and devils to Tanar'ri and Baatezu...
-They could have had a divinity student who chased off vampires or something. Oh well.
Crag wrote:
Interesting; Eric was used as a point of discord and often he served as the "butt of the jokes". Some times his stubborness served to uncover some important aspect for the group - subtle subversion of the message...
-The real mystery is, if they needed a self-centered jerk, why make him a cavalier? Why not a thief? Maybe they decided to make the rich guy (who becomes the cavalier) the self centered jerk. Sort of like Abbott & Costello in Buck Privates.
Exactly; eric was from a wealthy background. He constantly bragged about what he left behind and was the most eager to return. Even hinted that perhaps the other members did not really want to return to their normal lives.
The others hinted that he lorded his social status over the others within the school. Ergo; rich = noble, hence it protrayed a social conflict and allowed the writers too poke fun at the rich jerk. Which didn't offend viewers, outside of beverly hills.
4) The party of 1st level characters fights not only Venger in every episode, but their list of opponents includes, a beholder, a 200 foot tall iron golem, Tiamat, Lolth, Warduke, and a host of dozens of dragons all at once.
As a (tongue-in-cheek) aside, the Animated Series Handbook that came with the DVD box set lists them all as 7th level.
It also lists Eric as a Fighter and Diana as a Monk, but the series premiered in 1983, with the Thief-Acrobat first appearing in the January 1983 Dragon Magazine, and the Cavalier first appearing in the April 1983 issue.
Given the lead time needed for production of an animated series, you could argue that the book uses the classes that existed when the series was first conceived. (The Barbarian first appeared in the July 1982 issue).
leave it to the Big C to defend "eric" hehe he has a warm heart for all those Code and Order types hehe
I got the WHOLE set on DVD as a gag gift a few years back because they knew what a Big Fan of the game I am.... Have to say it was not EGG finest work, but considering the day and age ... He did manage to get it on Saturday morning Cartoons when most of the country thought D&D was akin to Devil Worship 101.
Besides I kinda liked Decheon... I think he may be a "relative"
This is an excellent point. I used to be pissed off at this cartoon for not being D&D-like. But as you point out here, D&D in the 1980's had a sinister reputation in the media. The Geraldo story comes to mind where he talks about D&D and heavy metal. There was that big story of the kid running his campaign under a bridge and killing the other kids, or something like that. While the internet gets a lot of blame for putting nasty things out there, it also works the other way, simply by just getting more info out there, period. Back then, when there was Geraldo's story and a few other things of a similar nature, the game didn't have the best reputation. Maybe this cartoon softened the blow for parents concerned about their kids playing the game; maybe it helped them realize it wasn't such an evil thing after all. Or that evil is in the eye of the BEHOLDER...
I have fond memories watching this cartoon when I was a young lad. Granted, it didn't 'abide by the rules' of the game, but, honestly, I don't think it was ever meant to. I likewise own the DVD collection of this TV show and reflect with warm nostalgia the many hours viewing the program as a youth. A more 'realistic' representation of the game would not be kid-friendly and would be more akin to a violent anime' program...
Well, I must say that my own children are loving these episodes. They ask to watch them every time they come over. As a result, I've seen them all several times now and they are growing on me. Mostly because of nostalgia, but also because I am catching quick comments that are actually funny that have never registered before. Eric's comments are the best. For example, when they are being attacked by the beholder, Hank, the Ranger, says, "Now, don't panic everyone!" Eric's response was, "I can't believe you just said that!"
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) and am remembering why, as a teen-ager, I really didn't like them. However, I am finding them to be fun in a nostalgic way and have seen a few things that I didn't remember and either find entertaining or wish I hadn't been reminded of.
Not as cowardly as you might think.
And Yet 30 plus years later we are still here.....
