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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Sep 14, 2009
Posts: 172
From: Laporte IN.
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:28 pm
Who's with me?
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So it's Forgotten Realms, time to go on a kobold genocide killing spree 
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Posts: 1846
From: Mt. Smolderac
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:01 pm
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"This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. 'Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble.' Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer, dead!"
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 2790
From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:19 pm
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Food Fight!!!
Couldn't let you take all the credit there, Smillian! 
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Novice
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 3
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:01 pm
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I'm with you on this one.
For me, If I was going to buy 5e or not was totally dependent on Greyhawk or Planescape support. If they are just doing FR, then I'm going to be just doing Pathfinder, 3.5 and AD&D :(
Edit: Oh, and this is my first post here, btw. I just made my profile a few minutes ago :p
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Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 2592
From: Ullinois
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:23 am
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Welcome to Canonfire Charles.
And, blargh!
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Adept Greytalker
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Posts: 348
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:31 am
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We will make HATE to them!
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 39
From: Wales
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:11 am
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Sorry have I missed something?
I'm guessing fromthe message from WoC is the rebirth for 5th Ed is going to be another FR release.
If so looks like most people on here are going to avoid 5th like the plague ( and I'm not talking about the Spell Plague).
If this is not the case could someone enlighten me
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
Posts: 58
From: Gettysburg, PA
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:17 am
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On the plus side, it sounds like the Greyhawk archives will be available as pdf downloads next year. Mearls also said Greyhawk is important to him, and they have plans for other worlds down the road. He was a Keoland triad at one time in LG.
And I can still use D&D next as the game system for MY Greyhawk. I do like what I've seen so far.
Dave Guerrieri
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 1371
From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:19 am
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| JHSII wrote: |
| ...However, as involved as Ed Greenwood was in the original hosing of Greyhawk; it's somewhat amusing to see his reaction as they continue do to his world what they did to Gary Gygax and Greyhawk. Karma indeed!! |
-OK. I give up. How did Ed Greenwood screw up Greyhawk?
From the Ashes was the worst blow, and even that wasn't that bad. And as far as I know, Greenwood had nothing to do with it. That was Carl Sargent, most of whose work I like.
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Oct 03, 2011
Posts: 79
From: Fairwind Isle
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:30 am
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I was literally dancing around my living room when they announced they would be reprinting old material. I can't wait to get my hands on all the old AD&D modules. I'm currently collecting them but they're very expensive. However, I want to gently point out that while they did say they would reprint all older materials for ALL past editions they did not explicitly say it would be PDFs. It actually seemed as if they were trying to avoid using the term.
In any case, I can't wait for the reprints. As for FR - I'm not buying 5e. However, they did mention Greyhawk would find some love so I'll wait and see.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 1371
From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:36 am
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| Elliva wrote: |
| I was literally dancing around my living room when they announced they would be reprinting old material. I can't wait to get my hands on all the old AD&D modules. I'm currently collecting them but they're very expensive... |
-I'm with you.
Most of the stuff I bought at the time was for 4th level and above (which I really didn't use, except as background- although that's good), except for B1 (which I set in Ratik), B2 (at the juction of the Jewel and Handmaiden), T1 (Hommlet & moathouse) and L1 and L2 (Restenford & Garrotten), and Border Watch (set after the GH Wars). There was a lot of lower level stuff that I didn't know was Greyhawk related at the time, but was, like the U and UK series.
But I'd hate to be the guys selling that stuff on e-bay or amazon!
| JHSII wrote: |
...Yes, you're right - Ed Greenwood continually pushed for printing of more Greyhawk material while trying to keep T$R from printing anything Realms. His battles to support Gary Gygax and to keep Greyhawk #1 were legendary.  |
-Sorry, I don't consider trying to get your materials published to constitute a stab in the back. It's competition.
The thing that did in Gary Gygax at TSR in was his choice of partners, who he left in charge at Geneva while he played around in Hollywood with that D&D cartoon and trying to make a movie. That's what set off the chain of events leading to his ouster (not to turn this into the Lorraine Williams bashing thread). Of course something else moved in to take over from Greyhawk: FR and DL, because the original"owner" had taken his ball and sulked away. I haven't read it, but in his last Gord book, he apparently destroys GH. Nothing screams "maturity" like destroying a world because you don't get your way. 
Maybe I should start a "Let's Be Honest: EGG Could be a Major League A$$hole" thread in the "Heresy" threads. 
Last edited by jamesdglick on Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 2790
From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:22 am
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| jamesdglick wrote: |
| Maybe I should start a "Let's Be Honest: EGG Could be a Major League A$$hole" thread in the "Heresy" threads. |
Alas, that's true of everyone . . . when it comes to their "pet peeves."
So there's no need to start another thread on that point. 
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 1371
From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:18 pm
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| JHSII wrote: |
Heck, let's start a new topic: Gary Gygax is evil incarnate, and everything he ever did should have been burned and destroyed. After all, Lorraine was right about Gary, gamers, and Greyhawk - let them all be cursed.
We ALL need to give a big GI to Gary and everything he ever did or tried to do, right???? |
Wow.
No.
You seem to think we need to give Ed Greenwood a big GI and everything he ever did or tried to do. I'm just saying that Ed Greenwood did less harm to GH than EGG did, or even the supposedly awful Lorraine Williams did.
I'll start that thread tomorrow...
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 1371
From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:28 pm
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| JHSII wrote: |
I'm going to ignore the thread started tomorrow by the troll.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Gary Gygax did to "harm" Greyhawk... |
Ignorance is strength?
I'm still trying to figure out what Ed Greenwood did to harm GH.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 1371
From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:36 pm
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| JHSII wrote: |
| At least I correctly identified the troll... |
Thank you for your encouraging support.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 1234
From: New Jersey
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:59 pm
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Gary Gygax created a great game we all enjoy. I don't see Ed greenwood as the reason Gygax was tossed from TSR. So hating Ed Greenwood or FR does not honor Gygax and does not promote are love or support for the Greyhawk setting. As far as Gygax destroying the world he created in his last Gord book, that was his right. If any of us agreed with the end result this site would not exist here.
So instead of focusing on the negatives lets focus on the positives of what unites the setting. As the heading goes Editions Change Greyhawk Endures.
Later
Argon
Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle.
-Thomas Jefferson-
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Black Hand of Oblivion
Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3837
From: So. Cal
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:27 pm
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Everyone keep it civil, or the thread (which I don't see as being all that constructive to begin with) goes away. I really don't find the level of causticity here to have reached too offensive of proportions, but don't push it. More constructive comments could surely be made.
Just one point for everyone to keep in mind: I consider those who contribute to continuing a flame war (i.e. those who didn't light the fire, but sure as hell don't mind piling on more wood) nearly as responsible as those who start one, and anyone who has done either will not receive my deepest of sympathies.
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Master Greytalker
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 699
From: On a Cape on the East Coast
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:30 pm
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Somewhat topical to the thread ...
Is it just me, or is the size of the above illustration blowing out the size of the forum width? I am having to scroll left and right to read the posts. ... and my main monitor (of two) is, like, two feet wide!
Maybe we could edit it to be "average" sized, so that the default widths of the site can not be all off-kilter, willy-nilly, helter-skelter, and whatever other nonsense words we can apply? 
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
Posts: 201
From: South Africa, Cape Town
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:38 pm
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I support what Argon says.
Was I dissapointed that Greyhawk wasn't selected for 5e? Sure
Was I upset that the Realms got another chance to shine with 5e? Sure
Maybe this time round they will listen and get the Realms sorted out ... who knows.
At the end of the day Gary did what he said he was going to do ... he left a legacy behind, Greyhawk and it is now our turn to wear the mantle and build on to that legacy.
Dungeons & Dragons stopped being "Gary's" Dungeon & Dragons with the onset of the later edition, but original D&D/AD&D and Greyhawk will always be what he passed onto us the first and generation D&D player.
Don't hate the designers, don't hate the people, don't hate the game, there is just too much of that already. Focus on what you have ...
Anyway those are my thoughts.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Sep 12, 2005
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:21 am
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The announcement of another "rebirth" of FR is disappointing but from the readouts I've seen (I'm on GMT/BST so watching it live on a work night was impossible) they are not going to solely support the Realms and will cover other settings in due course.
That said, 5E has failed to inspire me so far and ultimately, it's the rules system that will drive my decision to support the edition fully or not. Obviously, if they release any GH support then I'll buy it whatever the rules but my support for the edition doesn't hinge on GH support as we've had slim pickings for GH for many years and I've still got by. Hell, there's enough source material here to keep half a dozen campaigns going for years 
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:30 am
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| Flint wrote: |
| ...That said, 5E has failed to inspire me so far and ultimately, it's the rules system that will drive my decision to support the edition fully or not. Obviously, if they release any GH support then I'll buy it whatever the rules but my support for the edition doesn't hinge on GH support as we've had slim pickings for GH for many years and I've still got by. Hell, there's enough source material here to keep half a dozen campaigns going for years |
-I got by without going to D&D 4.0, so I can get by without D&D 5.0.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 10, 2003
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From: New Jersey
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:12 pm
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Icarus,
Yeah it just happened to me as well. Apparently gamers are not the only ones who expand. That's ok Canonfire Threads got a little wider. That just means there's more to love!
Later
Argon
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Master Greytalker
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 699
From: On a Cape on the East Coast
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:07 pm
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Dark Herald -
Thank you for putting so eloquently the thoughts that I was having. Though I may have been about as delicate as a knee on the topic, your way of putting it expresses it so much better.
Thank you for sharing those thoughts.
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Owner and Lead Admin: https://greyhawkonline.com<div>Editor-in-Chief of the Oerth Journal: https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal</div><div>Visit my professional art gallery: https://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com</div>
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Novice
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:27 am
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| Thyrnbryn wrote: |
| Mearls also said Greyhawk is important to him, and they have plans for other worlds down the road. |
At the same time though, then 4e was released, they said that they would have Greyhawk support later. Now it's in its death throws and guess what was never done? :p
| Thyrnbryn wrote: |
| He was a Keoland triad at one time in LG. |
Hmm... I didn't know that. I guess that's a really good thing/
On the flip side though, WotC seem almost like it is trying to kill itself.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Sep 12, 2005
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:44 am
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| DM_Charles wrote: |
| Thyrnbryn wrote: |
| He was a Keoland triad at one time in LG. |
Hmm... I didn't know that. I guess that's a really good thing/
On the flip side though, WotC seem almost like it is trying to kill itself. |
I'm not sure about trying to kill itself but given Mike Mearls' admission that the playtest will be a two year process (although he didn't say when from) I wonder how the company will sustain itself with the anaemic product output levels we have seen in the last year or two.
Assume they are banking on GH fans like us along with the fans of other abandoned settings / previous editions to support them to a certain degree by snapping up the back catalogue when it's released next year.
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Master Greytalker
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
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From: On a Cape on the East Coast
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:05 pm
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Flint ... I would presume that you're correct in your assumption that WotC may indeed be counting on their back-catalog of material to provide some amount of a lack of new material in the next year. Frankly, though, when a company of that size decides to make a major change like this, they have to evaluate their own profit margins. I 'm certain that they will continue to put out some books, but, they likely had to look at their R&D costs, printing costs, and whatnot, and make a reasonable aaertion that they may not make a whole lot of money in the next year or so. If they are able to recoup their loss of low output with the PDFs, they will see it as nothing but gravy. If not, they will likely have already planned on it being within a certain budget to put out D&D Next without a profit. That's just the cost of having to try to do a major overhaul.
I, for one, will certainly be picking up a good deal of PDFs. I'm hoping that some things come out like Dragon and Dungeon magazines. Because, I guarantee you, I'd buy every single one of those!! :)
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Owner and Lead Admin: https://greyhawkonline.com<div>Editor-in-Chief of the Oerth Journal: https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal</div><div>Visit my professional art gallery: https://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com</div>
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 10, 2003
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From: New Jersey
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:40 pm
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I think allowing the sale of previous edition pdf's is a smart way to go about it. Though I think they are banking on the hype of Next to boost sales upon it's release.
Later
Argon
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