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Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

Choose a RED number for the village location.
1
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
2
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
3
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
4
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
5
42%
 42%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 19

Author Message
Cebrion
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:22 am  
Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

So, it is to be The Pale- by a nose! Time to choose a hex location. As there are simply way too many hexes for a poll, I have overlaid a map with a larger black hex grid. The locations are limited to roughly what the Pale's boundaries were around 576 C.Y., as that is our baseline, but I have also included a good portion of the wilderness area on the borders too. Find the BLACK GRID HEX where you want the village to be, and vote for the RED number that you see there.


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Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
Mystic-Scholar
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:12 am  

Well, I have Dropbox, but apparently I don't know how to use it, because I cannot access this map.

So . . . no vote from me.
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SirXaris
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:33 am  

Error (403)

Won't let me in. Confused

SirXaris
Icarus
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:48 am  

Mystic Scholar ... It's not just you.
I've a dropbox as well, as do many of our members. But, i think that it's likely that the image is being linked from a password protected folder, or it was linked incorrectly, or some minor editorial gaff.

It's okay. I'm sure it will be fixed shortly.

the only downside is that there've been quite a few people who've clicked it already, and may not come back a second time once the link is repaired.
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Mystic-Scholar
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:22 pm  

Icarus wrote:
Mystic Scholar ... It's not just you.


Thanks, Icarus. Glad to hear it, in that I'm not that computer stupid! Laughing
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jamesdglick
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:24 pm  

If it never comes up, put me down for the Sir Xaris option.
jamesdglick
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:28 pm  

Could Ceb' just cut and paste the map on the thread?
Cebrion
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:29 pm  

The intarwebs doesn't work that way. Files need to be hosted. Not too long ago, DropBox changed a portion of its format, namely how pictures are accessed; probably very purposely in an effort to make it more difficult for people to post them on the internet, such that it uses their bandwidth less. Photobucket has done something similar. I found a partial work-around before in one of the previous polls, so I need to look for it again. (See the first post for the pic now.)
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SirXaris
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:21 pm  

Well, I voted for area 5.

Thanks for posting the picture with the numbered areas in this thread, Cebrion.

SirXaris
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:21 pm  

I like areas 1 & 2, but in "today's" setting that would make it a little too "pro" Pale . . . and that's hard on a Wizard, so I voted area 5 too. Wink
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Icarus
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:00 pm  

I chose "2" for essentially one reason - The Phostwood.
I'm kind of cheating, a little. I'm mixing the popular answers for the previous polls (Bandit Kingdoms and the Pale).

The Grand Theocracy of Dimre (worshippers of the Ebongleam/Pholtus) and the Red Planks band of Rhennee both figure prominently in the Phostwood.

Huzzah!
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Argon
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:33 pm  

I liked two numbers so I have not voted as of yet. The Troll fens in area 1 and area 5. Though it might just be my preference for trolls (my version, not the typical green skin, carrot nosed D&D trolls). So in the end I'll stick with number 5 as I won't be able to use my version of trolls for this.

Later

Argon
smillan_31
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Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:51 pm  

I'm the only Troll Fens voter so far. C'mon people, these ain't no regular fens, they're TROLL Fens!
Dark_Lord_Galen
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:53 am  

Icarus wrote:
I chose "2" for essentially one reason - The Phostwood.
The Grand Theocracy of Dimre (worshippers of the Ebongleam/Pholtus) and the Red Planks band of Rhennee both figure prominently in the Phostwood.

Have to follow the lead of my fellow Texan,,,
Would add that it also Fronts the Edge of the Rakers (though all but #3 kinda do this) but only #1 &#2 would be near the troll fens as well. I think the various terrain types Mountains, River, Forest, plains, better support a mix of culture / demi-humans. Thus creating a varied variety of adventures & plot points.
Further, being next to the Tenh, Stonehold and (later)Iuz influences, it would gain some historical turmoil in the "future" if the DM wanted such.

@Argon. and who's to say maybe some corrupt Dark wizard is creating a new breed of troll in the Fen? heheh

Not like any of this is "canon" anyway... but could grow to be. Wink
I think if we act as guardians of intent to the spirit and let the die be cast, letting posterity decide as it has for LG semi-canon. Cool
rasgon
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:16 am  
Re: Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

Cebrion wrote:
The locations are limited to roughly what the Pale's boundaries were around 578 C.Y.,


On a side note, I'd recommend 576 instead, the time the Greyhawk Folio and boxed set were placed. While two years difference isn't much, Fate of Istus is usually set in the interlude, and a village in the Pale might conceivably change slightly due to the events of that module (especially the Wintershiven chapter).
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:01 am  
Re: Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

rasgon wrote:
I'd recommend 576 instead, the time the Greyhawk Folio and boxed set were placed.


Hmm. No specific year was mentioned as the setting for our village and the LGG plays so large a part in the conversations around "here" that I allowed that consideration to influence my thoughts.

Had 576 CY been set as the specific time period, I would have gone with area #1 instead. Cool

Sorry Smillian! Embarassed

Laughing Laughing Laughing

Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
I think the various terrain types Mountains, River, Forest, plains, better support a mix of culture / demi-humans. Thus creating a varied variety of adventures & plot points.


The LGG and time period setting also influence this, to a degree. Demi-humans are pretty much "2nd class citizens" in The Pale, because anyone who isn't completely devoted to Pholtus' worship is treated so in The Pale.

(Where's the Holy Theocrat {Issak} when you need him? Oh! Yeah . . . lost in the World of Pathfinder!) Shocked

I don't see whole villages of halflings, dwarves or elves serving Pholtus. Yes, I'm sure that there are those here who would disagree. Our beloved Sage Rasgon could probably quote Source Material to prove otherwise.

I'm just saying; that's how I see it. Wink Laughing
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jamesdglick
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:30 am  
Re: Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

Cebrion wrote:
...

-Far be it from me to be a smart alec (ahem, but isn't that what I asked for? Wink Laughing

I've yet to vote, but:

SirXaris wrote:
Well, I voted for area 5...


-That's my favorite for now, but...

Icarus wrote:
I chose "2" for essentially one reason - The Phostwood.
I'm kind of cheating, a little. I'm mixing the popular answers for the previous polls (Bandit Kingdoms and the Pale).

The Grand Theocracy of Dimre (worshippers of the Ebongleam/Pholtus) and the Red Planks band of Rhennee both figure prominently in the Phostwood.

Huzzah!


...couldn't we get the same features you (Sir X) mentioned in Area 5 in the northern half of Area 2? As for the southern half, the nearness of Dimre does interest me...

Waiting for the tie-breaking argument... Cool

Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
Icarus wrote:
I chose "2" for essentially one reason - The Phostwood.
The Grand Theocracy of Dimre (worshippers of the Ebongleam/Pholtus) and the Red Planks band of Rhennee both figure prominently in the Phostwood.

Have to follow the lead of my fellow Texan,,,
Would add that it also Fronts the Edge of the Rakers (though all but #3 kinda do this) but only #1 &#2 would be near the troll fens as well...


-Ahem. I predict one last poll, when we decide which specific hex to use. Cool

rasgon wrote:
Cebrion wrote:
The locations are limited to roughly what the Pale's boundaries were around 578 C.Y.,


On a side note, I'd recommend 576 instead, the time the Greyhawk Folio and boxed set were placed...


-I have no beef against CY 576. Some DMs might like to start then. For those who start a little later, they get an extra two years' background.

Mystic-Scholar wrote:
...
Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
I think the various terrain types Mountains, River, Forest, plains, better support a mix of culture / demi-humans. Thus creating a varied variety of adventures & plot points.


The LGG and time period setting also influence this, to a degree. Demi-humans are pretty much "2nd class citizens" in The Pale, because anyone who isn't completely devoted to Pholtus' worship is treated so in The Pale.

(Where's the Holy Theocrat {Issak} when you need him? Oh! Yeah . . . lost in the World of Pathfinder!) Shocked

I don't see whole villages of halflings, dwarves or elves serving Pholtus...


-My understanding is that The Pale has grown increasingly suspicious of demi-humans, but as with everyone else, the Pholtian's real concern is with those who spread heresy, and, to a lesser extent, those who pay no respect to Pholtus. My glassblowing gnome will be more than happy to give primacy to the Blinding Light.

Anyway, I suspect that all the demi-human races combined will be a minority in Vaillage (can we go with that?). But the right location can explain why a decent number are there without having to come up with a convoluted or deus ex machina explanation.
rasgon
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:38 pm  
Re: Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

jamesdglick wrote:
...couldn't we get the same features you (Sir X) mentioned in Area 5 in the northern half of Area 2? As for the southern half, the nearness of Dimre does interest me...

Waiting for the tie-breaking argument... Cool


Section two seems already relatively busy with settlements, while section five could use more development. My favorite was the bottom hex, with woods, mountains, and plains in the same region. There's a similar mix in area two, but the woods and mountains don't actually touch in the same hex, so you can't make a single village in both regions (that said, there's plenty of room for a smaller, unmapped local woods in a thirty-mile hex).

My imagination has already cast the southernmost hex 5 as the location of a ruined Aerdi keep that once guarded the passage north from hostile Flan before the settlement of the region by Oeridians left it obsolete. Nearby, in the mountain caves, an ancient Neanderthal-like group of humans once worshiped the last of an alien race as a god before it finally succumbed to old age and disease. Its spirit fell into torpor as the tribe dispersed, only to dimly awake with the recent arrival of a goblin tribe, which has developed mutations so disturbing that their own kind have driven it deep under the ground.

I could fit similar things in area 2, but area 5 seems to fit slightly better, as it would be the entrance to the north to new immigrants into the Pale. And, you know, maybe no one else wants to play with any of those ideas; I can always make it another post and figure out other ideas that play better with others.
jamesdglick
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:06 pm  

rasgon wrote:
jamesdglick wrote:
...couldn't we get the same features you (Sir X) mentioned in Area 5 in the northern half of Area 2? As for the southern half, the nearness of Dimre does interest me...

Waiting for the tie-breaking argument... Cool


Section two seems already relatively busy with settlements, while section five could use more development. My favorite was the bottom hex, with woods, mountains, and plains in the same region. There's a similar mix in area two, but the woods and mountains don't actually touch in the same hex, so you can't make a single village in both regions (that said, there's plenty of room for a smaller, unmapped local woods in a thirty-mile hex)...


-I guess it depends on the definition of "nearby". In the top-most hex of Area 2, there's a 30-mile hex with the "N" of "Tehn" in it. Dead center of that would be 30 miles from the Phostwood, 15 miles from the Griff Mountains, and about 15 miles from the Troll Fens. But it's even further from Dimre, which would have been an Area 2 selling point. And looking at the bigger map, wasn't that Tehnnese territory CY 576-582 rather than Palish? Confused Shocked Exclamation

I want a ruling!

rasgon wrote:
...Section two seems already relatively busy with settlements, while section five could use more development...


-I do consider not stepping on previous work a plus.

Still leaning to Area 5...
Cebrion
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:01 pm  
Re: Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

rasgon wrote:
Cebrion wrote:
The locations are limited to roughly what the Pale's boundaries were around 578 C.Y.,


On a side note, I'd recommend 576 instead, the time the Greyhawk Folio and boxed set were placed.

I mean 576 C.Y. For some reason I have 578 stuck in my brain. Now that I can edit again, time to edit.

And, really? Neck and neck, again? I'm rolling a d6 this time. I'll do it! Razz
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Argon
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:15 pm  

Poor old number 3, nobody want's you. Cry

I know I don't. Evil Grin Laughing

Later

Argon
SirXaris
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:04 pm  

I share Rasgon's reasons for prefering the bottom-most hex of section 5. Remember that just southeast of it is a hills hex - part of the Flinty Hills. The location really is a nexus of geographical features and a major north/south highway for moving peoples and merchants, since they would need to go around the Rakers and would generally prefer to avoid trying to travel through a major forest (though skirting such a forest would be quite beneficial).

That leaves open the opportunity for some very cool history (ruins, events, etc.), like Rasgon suggested.

The only thing that hex doesn't have is a river or sea port.

SirXaris
Argon
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:46 pm  

SirXaris wrote:
I share Rasgon's reasons for prefering the bottom-most hex of section 5. Remember that just southeast of it is a hills hex - part of the Flinty Hills. The location really is a nexus of geographical features and a major north/south highway for moving peoples and merchants, since they would need to go around the Rakers and would generally prefer to avoid trying to travel through a major forest (though skirting such a forest would be quite beneficial).

That leaves open the opportunity for some very cool history (ruins, events, etc.), like Rasgon suggested.

The only thing that hex doesn't have is a river or sea port.

SirXaris


Whose to say an underground stream or pond does not exist within the forest or amongst the outskirts of the forest?

Later

Argon
SirXaris
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Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:07 pm  

Argon wrote:
Whose to say an underground stream or pond does not exist within the forest or amongst the outskirts of the forest?


Certainly, it is possible that there are streams, ponds, and even lakes nearby that are not large enough to warrant inclusion on the Darlene maps, but I do like the idea of an underground river. It would be reasonable for such a stream to form on the west side of the Rakers and continue underground to the southwest until emerging near Womtham and becoming the headwaters of the Duntide River.

SirXaris
rasgon
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Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:34 am  

Yeah, in a hex 30 miles across, you don't have to hide a minor river underground if you want to include one. There are probably several of them on the surface.
Dark_Lord_Galen
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Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:40 pm  
Re: Postfest: The Pale (but where in The Pale?)

rasgon wrote:

Section two seems already relatively busy with settlements, while section five could use more development.

Rasgon,
Not to be argumentative, and not having the legend here infront of me..... but while area two may have more settlements doesnt the larger circles in five imply townships? Confused
which, to me would imply higher populations, development etc.
I do agree wih your assessment of what fits your scenerio. Happy
Dark_Lord_Galen
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Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:53 pm  

rasgon wrote:
Yeah, in a hex 30 miles across, you don't have to hide a minor river underground if you want to include one. There are probably several of them on the surface.


jamesdglick wrote:
-Ahem. I predict one last poll, when we decide which specific hex to use.

I'm gonna go ahead and cast my early voting for the second number two hex from the right , by the upper left corner of the first vertical quad of the left most portion of the polygon where , the minor underground stream emerges from an unknown spring, near the small clump of iron woods left by seeds scattered long ago by a traveler of Fharlanghn, to feed the second bend within that same afore mentioned river within the confines of the boundries of the afore mentioned defined hex. Evil Grin Wink Laughing
Cebrion
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Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:11 am  

Or there are these deep hole-in-the-ground things called wells. Wink
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jamesdglick
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Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:21 am  

Based on the fact that Area 2 looks like it really belongs in Tehn, and I think it gets whacked by Stonefist in 583, I went with Area 5 before I missed on on yet another vote! Laughing
Dark_Lord_Galen
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Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:24 am  

jamesdglick wrote:
I went with Area 5 before I missed on on yet another vote! Laughing

AHHHH but which hex....... hehehehe Laughing
jamesdglick
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Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:24 am  

Since there were 21 votes last time, and 16 now, and I didn't vote last time, that means there are at least 6 more possible votes out there.
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Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:26 am  

Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
jamesdglick wrote:
I went with Area 5 before I missed on on yet another vote! Laughing

AHHHH but which hex....... hehehehe Laughing


-I'll worry about that if we get there... Wink
Cebrion
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Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:36 am  

I'll be closing this poll down in a few days, and moving on to the next one.
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Cebrion
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Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:06 pm  

And so this one's done. Ample time for people to have voted. Seeing as the winning area has had many proponents mentioning a particular hex, we are going to go straight to that hex, that being the bottom most hex of Area 5. Darlene map hex U2-61. LGG map hex T-29. Paizo Dungeon Magazine map hex F2-76. If you don't have one of those maps, well, YOU SUCK! Laughing

Other than for organizing things, my contribution to the project looks like it will be in fleshing out a skeletal back story for the general area, adding a little bit about the local terrain, and why the village is located where it is. Set the stage basically, and let the troupe of improvisational writers loose upon it. I may write one actual village entry too, depending on how much of wild hare gets let loose on writing the back story bits.

More info to come...
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Cebrion
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Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:02 pm  

....OR...maybe things are not quite so cut and dried.

Seems that the area many are looking at already has a village located there- Woodsedge. Now, I haven't looked at "PAL-07 Wyrm Sign" just yet, but apparently that LGG adventure features Woodsedge and the area around it. If the area is already developed, even if just a bit, it would be better to choose a different area.

But I'll leave it up to the collective, meaning, yes, one more poll.
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jamesdglick
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Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:18 pm  

Cebrion wrote:
....OR...maybe things are not quite so cut and dried.

Seems that the area many are looking at already has a village located there- Woodsedge...


-I don't have a detailed map for that section, but Anna's map covers it. I don't know what she used as a basis, but based on the scale, it looks like there are at least 30 miles each between Stradsett and Woodsedge, Stradsett and Abottsford, and Abottsford and Woodsedge, and there are at least 10 miles between Woodsedge and the border with Nyrond (County of the Gamboge). And that's just if you stick to the known trails.

There should be plenty of room to stick a small, previously unmentioned village unless the Living Greyhawk scenario specifically mentions that there are no settlements between those areas. The two bridges on the stream cry out for a settlement.

Finally, LG is set in CY 591 and later. It is possible that if no settlememts are there in CY 591, that something may have happened to Vaillage (or whatever its name will be). Personally, I was looking for a place which wouldn't get whacked, but others may see it differently, and I can live with it.
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