...and it just so happens that I'm working on some adventure at Quasqueton once again. Besides, it just tickles me. The intro' actually recommends placing Quasqeton in Tehn, the Pale, or Ratik, so:
In your campaign, where is Quasqueton?
[I put it in Kalmar Pass between Ratik and the Bone March, currently late spring 578, with the "barbarians to the north" changed to the "humanoids to the south", although I kept the occasionally seen beserkers as Cold Barbarians. There's a post just to the north [note: not the Keep on the Borderlands], with one company of infantry, including a dwarvish scout 3nd level Fighter who has been to Quasqueton, and is trying to finish mapping it out, although the army doesn't consider it a priority.]
In your campaign, what were Zelligar and Rogahn's levels, alignment, etc? Or any of the others?
[Zelligar was a high level CE (CN) Wizard, and Rogahn was CN Fighter, exact levels unknown, but I'm open to debate. Erig was a Fighter, Marevak was either an elf, an half-elf raised by elves, or someone with an elf obsession. I have no idea what Melissa or any of the others were, except Melissa was attractive. I'm not sure whether Melissa was just Roghan's hot fiance (1st level Commoner or Expert) or whether she was classed or leveled. I'm toying with the idea of making Melissa CE; the reason for the party's demise was her treacherous betrayal. Yeah, I obviously have issues. It's also a little cliched. But so is making her CG, the influence which kept Rogahn (and Zelligar, perhaps) from completely giving in to evil...]
What happened to Zelligar and Rogahn?
[I assume that they and most of their followers were killed during an expedition to the Bone March, circumstances unknown.]
What were they looking for?
[I have no idea, but it would be a great adventure lead...]
[quote="vestcoat"]Regarding the origin of the kobolds and orcs:
Mike Carr wrote:
The monsters occupying the area to be explored are an assortment of creatures, some of which are former inhabitants (orc and kobold slaves) (24)
-To be honest, I overlooked that. I do have some zombies on the second level who were animated orc slaves. I assumed that most of the orcs and kobolds (plus goblins and hobgoblins) are outsiders who showed up after R&Z left (which was in CY 566 IMC, not the 30 years before listed somewhere or other, since I wanted the big battle for which they were feted to have occured just after the humanoid conquest of the Bone March, when the next objective was Ratik). Some of the slaves may have still been there, but the males were killed (not hard, since they were untrained and essentially unarmed), and the females and young incorporated into their team.
vestcoat wrote:
...Good point about the dwarf skeleton and brass dragon hide. Also, Zelligar has a torture rack and a human skin in his lab. So yeah, at least Zelligar is evil for sure (which we already agreed)...
-The dwarf sort of stuck out for me. The fact that the dragon was brass didn't register until I read that article. There could be explanations for that, since not every brass dragon has to to be CG (even in the D&D 3.5 MM, "always" doesn't always mean always, but it requires an explantion). Certainly, dwarves tilt LG, but can be of any alignment.
...You're right that being chaotic evil doesn't explicitly prohibit one from having friends and loved ones, but seriously, how many long-lasting, affectionate friendships complete with PDA's can you cite among chaotic/evil NPC's in Greyhawk? Can you name any? Please, try to answer this question. Compare B1 to the conniving, backstabbing, malicious bastards in Iuz the Evil and the Bandit Kingdoms materials - the tone of Z&R's personalities is RADICALLY different.
1) Iggwilv's treatment of Drelzna in S4;
2) Maybe the handling of Iggwilv and Iuz in EGG's second Gord book, although it's hard to tell how much is affection, and how much is eye poking;
3) Several paintings of Iggwilv and Graatz.
But Iggwilv does seem to be the exception when it comes to both giving and receiving affection in CE circles (I'm sure there's a thesis in there somewhere! ). But yeah, you don't see it too much. I consider that to be a failure caused by cliched characterization.
Why do Z&R might seem different? Part of it is more imaginative characterization. Plus, maybe they both take a longer view, which is one way to say that they're both "smarter" and/or "wiser". IMC, it's at least partly because Z isn't CE, but CE (CN), and R is CN (CE). You could argue that a lot of it is just for appearances (although I think it's largely sincere). Maybe R&Z just never had a serious falling out; they went north (or south, IMC) and never came back; maybe a blowup finally occurred during the expedition, and it wasn't pretty. Maybe Melissa (alignment unknown) has been a moderating influence on R, who in turn is a moderating influence on Z? Another possibility is that they used to be a lot worse in the past, but have left that behind; they keep the relics around as a cautionary reminder of what sort of excesses they used to particiapte in (although I don't buy that one). However, I'm now toying with the idea that Z may be CN (CE), and R is N (CN). I still have time to modify this.
I'm move familiar with the novel than with the module, but in the novel, the "goal" is to reestablish trade with the east. I think Tenh, the Pale and especially Ratik, would need to "reestablish" trade with the west, not the east. Of course, in the case of Ratik, that would involve clearing out the Bone March, not a simple pass! *
But, as I said, I'm more familiar with the novel than I am with the module. Something else to read, I suppose. "So much time and so little to do!"
I'm move familiar with the novel than with the module, but in the novel, the "goal" is to reestablish trade with the east...
-I'm not familiar with the novel; I didn't even know that there was one. Other than EGG's first two Gord novels, the only one I've read is the Keep on the Borderlands. It has a reference (IIRC) to a minor character being a Wolf Nomad, but other than that, its generic. Nevertheless, there's nothing in there which contradicts Flaneass canon, and it fits in with my interpretation of the Keep as being at the confluence of the Jewel & the Handmaiden.
Anyway, the module's DM notes specifiy Tehn, the Pale, and Ratik as suitable places for Quasqeton, and the references have "the barbarians" on the pass to the north; I'm actually modifying it a bit by making the primary baddies humanoids from the south. I guess the novel is taking liberties, or they didn't read the fine print.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
). But yeah, you don't see it too much. I consider that to be a failure caused by cliched characterization.
Plus, maybe they both take a longer view, which is one way to say that they're both "smarter" and/or "wiser". IMC, it's at least partly because Z isn't CE, but CE (CN), and R is CN (CE). You could argue that a lot of it is just for appearances (although I think it's largely sincere). Maybe R&Z just never had a serious falling out; they went north (or south, IMC) and never came back; maybe a blowup finally occurred during the expedition, and it wasn't pretty. Maybe Melissa (alignment unknown) has been a moderating influence on R, who in turn is a moderating influence on Z? Another possibility is that they used to be a lot worse in the past, but have left that behind; they keep the relics around as a cautionary reminder of what sort of excesses they used to particiapte in (although I don't buy that one). However, I'm now toying with the idea that Z may be CN (CE), and R is N (CN). I still have time to modify this.
