So far we have have the Knights of the Watch, Knight of Dispatch, Knight Protectors, Malagari, Knights of the Hart, Knights of the Holy Shielding and Knights of Luna.
What do you think? Do you we need another knight organization? Maybe something that would be more or less Flanaess-wide?
In my opinion, I would like to have a simple and nonrestrictive knighthood that would suit adventurers. Right now we don't really have that, at least not something that spans the entire Flanaess. I'd like something that would accept all kinds of brave men and women, no matter their skills... In my ideal knighthood, all classes could be paladins of sorts, but just by heart and action, not by skills and feats.
So far we have have the Knights of the Watch, Knight of Dispatch, Knight Protectors, Malagari, Knights of the Hart, Knights of the Holy Shielding and Knights of Luna.
What do you think? Do you we need another knight organization? Maybe something that would be more or less Flanaess-wide?
I disagree.
The above list provides examples of knighthoods established within the boundaries of kingdoms with some sharing of interests among like-minded groups. This is the extent of the connections I see in my vision of the World of Greyhawk.
What you describe as wanting is something like the Pathfinder Society of Golarion. The problem with that, as I see it, is that it requires extensive communication between the nations and all across the Flanaess. If such communication were possible, the Flanaess wouldn't be a place of adventure, but a more modern world with few places for monsters to exist. The Pathfinder Society is fine for what it is intended - to allow players a 'Living' game. However, it does not fit, realistically, into a Medieval/Dark Ages, monster-infested, points-of-light world like Greyhawk.
Moreover, in my own campaign, I assume that there are myriad other knightly organizations that exist, but aren't known to the PCs. Any DM can create such orgs as needed, and I encourage the sharing of them as that provides great ideas for the rest of us. However, I still disapprove of a Flanaess-wide knightly organization for the reasons listed above.
There are many orders of knighthood beyond that, these mainly being directly attached to the sovereign of a nation (there are Knights of Furyondy, and there are Knights of the Hart: Furyondy faction for instance) rather than being separate groups operating under a charter as those listed are.
Continent-spanning orders already exists in the form of religious orders, and I do not think that there should be a continent-spanning secular order or knights.
Also, the Knights of Luna are not a true order of knighthood, seeing as they are simply a group of like-minded individuals that operate under no authority of any kind whatsoever.
What I would rather see the addition of are warrior societies in the Baklunish and Thilonrian states, Stonehold, and a few other areas. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I would like more information on the local orders of knighthood. Most of these orders are somewhat transnational, like the medieval holy orders. Obviously most knights are not members of these famous orders... what other orders of chivalry are there in countries of the Flanaess? Just about every other nation should have an order or two of knighthood, much like England has Knights of the Bath and Knights of the Garter.
Last edited by tarelton on Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:09 am; edited 2 times in total
1) it doesn't fit the flavor of the setting. Greyhawk is ascending evil, points of light, shades of grey, and shaky politics. The kind of cooperation seen at Emridy Meadows is rare. Small bands of heroes, not organizations, turn the tide by exploring dungeons, unearthing magic, and containing evil.
2) There's no logical catalyst for such a group. Keoland and the Great Kingdom have completely different histories and cultures. The Flannae, Baklunish, barbarian, and theocratic nations further fragment the picture. Nations take care of their own and struggle alone. Ket and Perrenland are wholly opportunistic, the Pale and Gran March seek to annex those they liberate, Celene is closed, Ulek and the Yeomanry can spare few men, Irongate and Sunndi are isolated. If the Shield Lands couldn't even trust Furyondy against Iuz, what force on Oerth would unite an international band of ethnically diverse rogues, priests, and wizards? It's a miracle most of the population can even speak Common.
3) just as some religions are illegal, rulers also feel threatened by armed groups of autonomous, secular mercenaries or "knights". A large organization of outsiders would either be outlawed; chartered, taxed, and constrained; or compromised into some form of alliance that would conflict with a chapter in a different nation.
4) heroes are more heroic if there aren't too many heroes. The occasional NPC rivals can be fun, but add something like The Harpers to GH and *bang* there are chapters and clubhouses in every city, NPC adventures on every road, and mega characters like Elminster to lead the whole thing and overshadow PC's.
Historically, orders of knighthood all had religious connections. If you want a general order of paladin-like adventures, make them worshipers of Heironeous, St. Cuthbert or Mayaheine. Characters don't have to be a priest to be a follower. Bastion of Faith is a good template. St Carmichael, St. Trowbane, Rudd, Norebo, or Fharlanghn could also work.
L'Ordre de la Croix-Rose Veritas is an international order with a more specific purpose.
Another option would be a domestic order that travels abroad for the good of their nation. A small, wily country like Bissel or Irongate could have a network of international knights that function as spies, archeologists, and monkey-wrenchers, making up for their nation's lack of troops.
Last edited by vestcoat on Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
It's a miracle most of the population can even speak Common.
Heh, I usually have the peasantry speaking Velondi, Keoish, or some other local dialect. Only the upper classes and those with a need to speak common typically do.
You also have the Iron Nation Knights of Rel Astra, the Knights of the Chase, the Demonic Knights of Doom, the Knights of the Chalice, the Lords of the Gloaming, plus numerous other religious and national orders. Greyhawk has some sort of regional knighthood, as evinced by Sir Bluto Sans Pite, & IIRC, Hardby also has an order of female knights. EGG also has Gord go undercover as a (non-Hart) Velunese knight in SoOC, IIRC.
Knights of the Book (Church of Delleb) DRG #263 p. 50
Knights of the Mace (St. Cuthbert) Polyhedron #129 p. 39
Knights Valorous (Pholtus; the Pale) LGJ #3 p. 29
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