I've posted a bunch of different threads trying to formulate my idea of an overall campaign that I'm going to run. I've not run in Greyhawk before and I've not even played since 3.5 E. I've got a new 5E set of books and I'm going to run for my 9 year old son. I started with the old purple Basic boxed set back when I was in 4th Grade (back in 1978) and I think it would be a hoot to run my son through B2 - Keep on the Borderlands.
I've decided on Greyhawk for the rich story and the sheer amount of Living Greyhawk info I have. I've also got all the old classic modules and think it would be fantastic to let him feel the "old school" DnD world. I also got my hands on the DnD Next copy of the old module. I figured it would be good to eventually get to the Greyhawk Wars as something to shock them once they get used to the campaign world. With that in mind, I figured I would have to show them the campaign world! I figured Iuz would be a good person to focus the campaign on as the re-occuring evil. It seems that having the campaign happen around 571 CY as a year after Iuz has been released. Here's the plot that I'll start with:
Iuz has been released in 570 CY from under Castle Greyhawk and is gathering his power. At this point, not many people know he's back as the Old One tries to gather power in small sections. One of those is a forgotten temple around an ancient evil site in the Caves of Chaos, on the northern border of Furyondy. This is to go unnoticed by the Horned Society, too, as he has not yet struck back. So begins the backstory.
In order to show the polictcal situation of Furyondy, I want to have the players all geared up to join in an expidition against the Horned Society. The various players are travelling to a border fort to rally with military forces to make a push against the dreaded Horned Society. The party learns about the history of the Horned Society and how they took over after Old Iuz. I know one character is a LG cleric of St. Cuthbert and is all zealot about fighting evil. Well, the party gets to the Keep on the Borderlands, but they learn about the polictical troubles in Furyondy. The expidition is cancelled due to the Southern Lords who refuse to fund the expidition. Everyone is disappointed and the party learns about the political problems (as much as 9 yr olds can). I can introduce the Horned Society and how everyone's grandparents fought the Evil One.
With no fight happening, the party looks for other things. There are problems with caravans and the priest at the Keep asks the party to look into things. They find the Caves of Chaos and eventually the Hidden Temple. The find evil priests with symbols of old Iuz and the main guy can mumble things like "The Master has returned!! Soon, all of Furyondy will pay for it's insolance!" They can take the items back and show people, but not many will believe that Iuz is actually back. They think these were lone madmen causing issues.
After this, I am thinking of letting them pick out what happens. I'll leave tidbits for the Temple of Elemental Evil. I'll also throw out some Living Greyhawk adventures that are all pretty short. Let them poke around. I have to admit that I haven't finished the Temple of Elemental Evil, but know there is something about Iuz at the end of that. Or is that Return to TEE? To be honest, if someone wants to fill me in with what happens there, I'd appreciate it. I've got a lot of reading to do!
I also want to throw in Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (I have the 3.5 web stuff) and the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. I know those guys are somewhat linked, but I'm not sure how. Is it just that they are in the same rough territory? I haven't read the Forgotten Temple in years and have it on my reading list. Did I mention I have a lot to read? I think it involves some gnomes from one of the settlements getting kidnapped and needing to be rescued? That leads to the Temple? If anyone can give me that quick run down, I'd appreciate it. Also, I read on the wiki that there is a good chance that the characters die or become insane? Is that true? Also, which is better to run one adventure first? Or one in the middle of the other? Lastly....the web Hollow Horn of Iggwilv....how does one even find out about the last part of the adventure? I got the old Lost Caverns, but what leads them to the last part of the adventure that wasn't in the original? I don't see it in the material I have.
Lastly, is there anything else that might be good to run them through? Am I missing something that would be good to add? I know there are some Dungeon stuff that came out in the 3E for Greyhawk and I have some of those old modules (or can get my hands on them). Are there any flaws in my overall campaign arc? Once they finish the Iggwilv stuff, any ideas? Should I then throw the Wars at them? Or something else? I almost think having one set of characters go through a campaign would be good, and then start a new one that takes them through the Greyhawk Wars from a different perspective would be good. Or maybe then do the whole northern barbarian modules that kicks off the Greyhawk War?
I'd love for someone to help fill in the blanks on this. My library is at home, but I usually have time to think at work between stuff, so it makes it hard to figure things out and I get caught up once home.
heychadwick, your overall campaign arc sounds quite good. Here are my suggestions.
When your players finish The Keep on the Borderlands, they will only be about 4th level - 5th at most. That will work if they go straight to Temple of Elemental Evil (skipping The Village of Hommlet/The Moathouse prequel), but it isn't sufficient if you want them (or they want to) go to The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. To do that, they'll need a level or two in between. A perfect adventure for that purpose is Fiend's Embrace from Dungeon Magazine #121. It takes place in the Cold Fens north of the lands of Iuz and features a magical cloak once gifted to Iggwilv by her demon lord lover, Graz'zt. It is a fairly short adventure that should give them a level. Then they can head over to the Yatil Mountains in search of the next two adventures. You might want to throw them into a short adventure in Perrenland/Exag, the Clatspurs, the Valley of HighFolk, or the Vesve as they travel that direction.
By the way, I highly recommend The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. Temple of Elemental Evil is excellent as well, but it is a very long adventure that locks the players into it for a very long time. I tend to find that players prefer to try something new frequently enough that they don't feel like they're stuck doing the same thing for too long. So, especially for players as young as you are gaming with, I suggest you go with the shorter two. When they have completed those two, they may need a level or two before you send them Against the Giants, et. al. (GDQ). If they go through ToEE instead, they will probably be high enough level to go straight there. :)
Regarding Iuz and the ToEE: yes, Iuz, in league with Tzuggtmoy, initiated the Temple in order to establish a base behind enemy lines, so to speak. Iuz does still have some influence, though most of the evil priests within aren't aware of his involvement.
Regarding the fan-made Horn of Iggwilv expansion to the LCoT: I've read a little bit and it sounds very interesting, but I don't remember much. I believe that it is an extra dungeon level in the top of the 'Horn' that you'll have to give the PCs some clues to find. It sounds like it will fit well with TCoT, though. Might fill in that last level or so the PCs need before tackling the giants.
I mention GDQ several times because I think that if you want your players to have a better understanding of what is going on in the Greyhawk Wars, it's a good idea to have them experience those modules personally. Your plan with the Caves of Chaos/clerics of Iuz introduces that personage while Fiend's Embrace furthers the player's hatred of the Old One. The two modules in the Yatils introduce them to Iggwilv, Iuz's mother. Finally, if you follow GDQ with Isle of the Ape, they get to be even more involved in the events leading up to the Greyhawk Wars and get one more opportunity to despise Iggwilv.
OH, excellent! So, my plan does sound alright to a Greyhawk native. Fantastic. I appreciate the advice!
"Fiend's Embrace"....I think I have that Dungeon. I'll have to pull it out. I was just looking at stuff last night and found my stash of Dungeons. Is there a list of Greyhawk modules in Dungeon? Not that any of them can't be easily turned into GH, but sometimes it's better when built there. Great suggestion!
I was thinking of doing something before the Yatils. I wasn't sure if I would put it in Furyondy, Highmoon, or the Vesve. I have a lot of Living Greyhawk stuff and can probably pull out a short adventure or three for there.
I have some questions about Against the Giants and the Greyhawk Wars. So, I only recall the original one and not the Silver edition. Where does this series fit into the overall Greyhawk Wars? I kind of thought that this module series was the Greyhawk Wars. Is it not? Is it a precursor? Is it that the invasion was delayed, but not stopped? Would you recommend it all the way to the Queen of the Demonweb Pits?
I've never even read Isle of the Ape. I just googled it and it looks kind of cool. I assume it's iconical? Is that a word?
There was some discussion of dating the GDQ series in this thread:
Robbastard wrote:
rasgon wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan's Istivin trilogy in Dungeon Magazine #117, #118, and #119, which examined some of the repercussions of the Black Bubble, made it clear that the Black Bubble appeared in CY 576.
Fred Weining's "Vault of the Drow" article in Dragon #298 also pointed toward a CY 576 date for the GDQ series.
That dating isn't without problems, since the Slave Lords trilogy was set in CY 580 (according to Slavers) and the Queen of the Spiders supermodule, which introduced the Black Bubble, is explicitly set after the fall of the Slave Lords.
Plus Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff was set in CY 591 and had G1-G3 as part of it.
Obviously you can set the GDQ series in whatever date makes sense for your campaign. I would lean toward 576 as the "official" date of the events of that series, though, and just disentangle it from other module series that make the dating difficult.
Also note that Slavers uses many of the elements in the framing story in the A1-4 supermodule (the Edralve vs Klim plot, Black Kerr, Joseph of the Light, etc), and mentions Klim's alliance with "the drow of Underoerth" so one can assume that WotC, at least at that time, assumed that the fall of the Slave Lords predated the events of GDQ1-7.
It gets more confusing: Dungeon #119 also states that Eclavdra aided Klim in the creation of the Slave Lords, & sent Edralve to serve on the Inner Council, and implies that this event preceded Lolth's Black bubble over Istivin. And the LGG states that the Slave Lords rose to power in the 560s, & were defeated in 579.
Given the fact that T1-4 takes place in 579, I personally like to keep to the timeline in Slavers for the rise & fall of the Slave Lords. A1-4 states that the "winter snows are finally receding" in the intro, so one can assume it's spring of 580 when A1-4 takes place, and as GDQ17 suggests setting it "several weeks or months" after A1-4, I'd place that module in either autumn of 580 or spring of 581.
Ugh....reading that other thread just kind of makes things more confusing. It makes me realize that there are a lot of Greyhawk products that I haven't read and overall plot arcs that I don't know about.
Are there any overall plots within this timeframe that I'm ignoring? I know the Fate of Istus plague goes on about the same time. Other than that?
OK...I read the Iuz wiki entry and that makes sense. I tend to like the idea of using Against the Giants as part of the Greyhawk Wars. I think I should save that. Hmmm....I'll have to think of something else to do with them after the Yatil Mountains. Then again.....that should take enough time that I should just wait until then before I get too far. We won't be able to play for too long as everyone's bed time is around 8pm-9pm. :)
I went to the list of modules and exported it into a spreadsheet. I sorted on locations and levels and came up with a list of modules that are around the Furyondy - Yatil - Blackmoor area. I'm thinking if I have the party go up towards the north for Fiend's Embrace module, they might want to stay around up there a bit. Or find some other modules around that location. Here's the list I found:
ART2a Night Raiders Southern Tip of Yatils, Northwest of Veluna Campaign Set 10 to 12
CG04 The Dead of the Howling Hills Howling Hills, Iuz Adventure Card 2 to 4
DM11 The Shalm's Dark Song, Dungeon #87 Blackmoor Module 5 to 7
DM12 Sloth, Dungeon #91 City of Pellak, Bissel Module 5 to 7
EE3 The Fire Temple Southern Yatils, Veluna Module 9 to 12
OJ1 The Fountain of Pelor, OJ #2 Critwall, Shield Lands Module 7 to 11
PC07 The Forgotten Hero Northern Vesve Module 5 to 7
QMG2 Into the Vesve Vesve, Wolf Nomads Module 5 to 7
QMG3 Mist Manor Cold Marshes, Blackmoor Module 6 to 8
RE2 Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil Hommlett and Nulb, Verbobonc Module 1 to 8
S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth Southern Yatils Module 6 to 10
T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil Homlett and Nulb, Verbobonc Module 1 to 8
WG04 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun Southern Yatils Module 5 to 10
WG08h At the King's Right Hand Chendl Module 1 to 10
WG08i Iuz's Gambit Verbobonc Module 1 to 10
WGR2a A Little Knowledge Perrenland Module 3 to 5
WGR2i Crossing Into Steel Monastary, Shield Lands Module 7 to 9
WGR6 City of Skulls Iuz Module 9 to 12
Many of these I've never heard of before and can't even find details on when googling. What's an "adventure card"? I've never heard of a module called EE3, and neither has google. Are any of these worth getting and where can I actually find them?
Also.....way back in the day....I had a Dragon magazine module that was set in the Sea of Dust. It was about a building that rises out of the sand every 500 years (or something like that). The players had x amount of time to search and loot the place before it sunk into the sands for another 500 years. I even remember that the very bottom had a lvl 15 female paladin that had been trapped down there and put into suspended animation until now. She had no armor and braces of AC something with two +5 daggers. I always thought it a novel concept and later editions of DnD could make that type of a character really cool with abilities and such.
Anyone remember that module name or which version it was in? I might still have a copy, but might not.
The World of Greyhawk boxed set, the City of Greyhawk boxed set, and From the Ashes boxed set all have 'adventure cards'. They are short adventures to be run in a single session of gaming that are only two pages long (they fill the front and back of an 8.5" by 11" page of cardstock). The Dead of the Howling Hills is one such adventure card, though I don't remember which boxed set it is a part of.
Is there anywhere that has rumors or news of events throughout the years? I know some products back in the day would do that. It was done in the LG years. What about before? I can always look at the timeline, but there isn't anything that happens every year and there are always more things going on. I just kind of want to create some overall rumors about other places in Greyhawk around 570-575 or so. Any ideas?
I have them printed out in a binder in my gaming material. From what I recall I was disappointed with them, a set of dungeons filled with random monsters associated with each of the four elements, with no rhyme or reason, then a final dungeon full of undead, demons, and creatures from all four elements.
Kind of like the elemental temples in the original Final Fantasy video game.
This thread reminded me of another thread, which I can't locate anymore. It was about what was going on in Iuz's lands between 505 CY and 570 CY. It was mostly conjecture, but I must say the posters outdid themselves! I should have printed the thread out, because I want to use the awesome suggestions contained therein.
@Armitage: Thanks! I'll take a look. I don't mind missing mediocre, but not knowing is frustrating.
There isn't a list of Dungeon adventures that take place in Greyhawk, is there? I mean, they almost all COULD be in GH, but it would be nice to have an official list.
Raphael wrote:
This thread reminded me of another thread, which I can't locate anymore. It was about what was going on in Iuz's lands between 505 CY and 570 CY. It was mostly conjecture, but I must say the posters outdid themselves! I should have printed the thread out, because I want to use the awesome suggestions contained therein.
Anyone recall that thread?
Wow...that would be reallyl cool to have. I might try some searches around key words....hornded society...etc.
I think there's a canonical reference to various imposters appearing in the Land of Iuz during Iuz's incarceration, and the thread then speculates on the nature of these imposters. Some of the prolific posters here contributed, and their ideas were better than anything WOTC has published for Greyhawk in the last decade. I wish I could locate the thread again. It must have been this spring that it appeared.
There isn't a list of Dungeon adventures that take place in Greyhawk, is there? I mean, they almost all COULD be in GH, but it would be nice to have an official list.
I think there's a canonical reference to various imposters appearing in the Land of Iuz during Iuz's incarceration, and the thread then speculates on the nature of these imposters. Some of the prolific posters here contributed, and their ideas were better than anything WOTC has published for Greyhawk in the last decade. I wish I could locate the thread again. It must have been this spring that it appeared.
There isn't a list of Dungeon adventures that take place in Greyhawk, is there? I mean, they almost all COULD be in GH, but it would be nice to have an official list.
I've already found a few ideas that I can offer them a choice of what to do. After Keep on the Borderlands, they will have a few levels before the Yatil Mnt Adventures. I did find the Fiend's Embrace, but here are a few others that could fit:
Rage - set in Bissel - levels 5-9
Sloth - set in Bissel - levels 3-7
Vanity - set in Bissel - levels 3-9
Lust - set in Bissel - levels 2-6
Racing the Snake - Ket to Highfolk - levels 4-8
Raiders of the Black Ice - Blackmoor - levels 1-5
The Clockwork Fortress - Blackmoor - levels 6-12
That, along with some LG stuff, can let the players dictate where they want to go. I love it! Do they want to head north to Parrenland and Blackmoor? Or West to Bissel and Ket? Some of those adventures can happen after Lost Caverns, too.
The best part is I believe I have all the modules. I'll have to check on the early ones, though.
I think there's a canonical reference to various imposters appearing in the Land of Iuz during Iuz's incarceration, and the thread then speculates on the nature of these imposters. Some of the prolific posters here contributed, and their ideas were better than anything WOTC has published for Greyhawk in the last decade. I wish I could locate the thread again. It must have been this spring that it appeared.
.....and more good stuff! I'll have to find a way to slip some of this into their conversations. Maybe after they find the Hidden Temple in the Caves of Chaos they will report to St. Cuthbert hierachy (one is a cleric of). The church can discuss the fake ones and just believe that it's another one. So....the world goes on believing that Iuz is gone.....even if the PC's know better!
I do have one question. If I were going to start the campaign with the characters going to Keep on the Borderlands for an abortive attack on the Horned Society.....where would a Dwarf come from? There aren't any nearby dwarven centers that he would come from. Or....would he be one of the rare Dwarfs that happens to live around Furyondy?
According to the LG Furyondy Gazetteer: "Dwarves are rare in Furyondy, with many of them living in the Reach; they often hail from the Lortmils to the south." Later on, the document mentions "mining communities of dwarves in the Reach." There are a "handful of gnomes and dwarves" in Redstone.
In the Duchy of the Reach are the Carnalion Mines (in the southeastern Yatils, south of Highfolk), "the primary source of gold in the kingdom... and the only significant population of dwarves in the kingdom."
So basically they come from the Yatils or the Lortmils.
Of course, those dwarven communities mentioned by Rasgon are only the main sources of dwarves in Furyondy. It is easy to simply invent a small mining community that a dwarf could come from that could be located anywhere in the nation. Alternatively, perhaps your PC dwarf's parents were jewelers/gem cutters or locksmiths working in any nearby city. That way your PC qualifies as one of those 'rare' dwarves within Furyondy.
I had the first game with them on Friday and everyone had a blast. They made it to the Keep on the Borderlands and learned that the attack was cancelled by the Southern Lords, as they wouldn't pay the taxes. The military was mostly called towards the capital and their merchant friend's caravan was hit after they left. The ranger tracked towards some old caves. Kobolds and rats have been slaughtered.
The nine year olds loved it! When putting my son to bed, he said he couldn't wait to play again and wanted to play the next day. #victory
Even the other dad said I was much more prepared for the game than he's ever seen anyone before.
"Train them up in the way they should go and they will not depart from it." Or, at least, if the prodigal son is lead astray of the gaming community by the wick and wiles of the fairer gender during his wandering years, he will return to the fold in mid-life.
"Train them up in the way they should go and they will not depart from it." Or, at least, if the prodigal son is lead astray of the gaming community by the wick and wiles of the fairer gender during his wandering years, he will return to the fold in mid-life.
Excellent quote! It is indeed, true. I was led astray at times, but always came back to DnD. Heck, he might even find a girl who games in the future. They do tend to like MMO's. Oh, and one of the party is a girl. Maybe I should make an arranged marraige? Her dad is also in the campaign. Why is it that all female players tend to like elven rangers as their first character?
Why is it that all female players tend to like elven rangers as their first character?
A girl I gamed with in the 90s ran half elven rangers exclusively. At the time, there were four or five of us who each ran our own games, among around seven players overall. in all those games, the girl I'm talking about, I don't think she ever ran anything else.
As a player, I used to strongly favor the ftr/m-u or the ftr/m-u/th, but as I've matured I've found I prefer single classed characters. I've tried most of the classes, and found I'm better with some classes than others, as I'm sure most players are, and do tend to gravitate towards those classes I feel more comfortable with. And yes, one of those is the ranger, but I can have fun with other classes as well.
Wanted to say THANK YOU for all the help I got from you guys. We started the campaign during the winter break from school. There have been three sessions so far, and everyone was a little confused as to how to even play....until the first combat happened. Then everyone warmed to the game pretty quick. Funny how combat does that.
They all rode up on a caravan together. Once the war on the Horned Society was cancelled ("I don't know why those Southern Lords don't just pay the taxes...") and all the troops left, the caravan was raided by the Caves of Chaos and their caravan master friend was taken. The lady Ranger tracked the Orcs back to the Caves. Two attempts to get into the Kobold cave had lots of dead Kobolds, but they didn't get far enough in. They decided to look for Orcs....as they took their friend, and went into the Goblin caves. Being 2nd level now, they took on the Ogre and killed him in two rounds!?!?!!? He only got to roll one attack, and rolled a 1.
As a side note, whenever my son sees someone with very blond hair and fair skin, he says, "Dad, look....it's a Suel." I thought you guys would love that. I do.
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