Several years ago I created my first character a human paladin and a human wizard that followed shortly afterwards. Both were created and played in separate campaigns under the 1st edition rules. The DM was my brother when I was a kid. Neither character had any kind of personality or background developed, as back in the early 80's these concepts were not introduced or encouraged by the DM. Over the years I have developed into a very big role player and strong character backgrounds.
Currently I am DMing a 5th edition campaign where we have an 11th level cleric and 11th level ranger going through Castle Greyhawk. The dungeon is starting to get tough (we are on the 3rd level of the War Tower) and much of this is due to the way 5th edition plays as a system. We have two people, myself, and one player. We are adding an 11th level barbarian to the group shortly (the other player will tackle this character).
To further increase the party size and for sentimental reasons, I would like to recreate my Paladin and Wizard from many years ago. I still have original character sheets and therefore had no problem stating the characters up using the 5th edition rules.
The problem is that neither character had any kind of personality or background and for the past several days I have been unsuccessful at coming up with any interesting ideas for either character. In fact all the games we played sort of meshed together because back then we did a few modules and otherwise fought giants because that was the choice of the DM's best friend and group leader.
The DM has since died and I have lost touch with the other players. What I can recall is this:
Paladin: My Paladin played second fiddle to a group of rangers (because that's all the other players would play). Eventually the group settled on the Paladin, the Ranger and a Monk. The main player hated dungeons so we only got to experience a little bit. I recall going through The Ghost Tower of Inverness, White Plume Mountain, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and Tomb of Horrors. Other than that, about the only thing that we did was fight giants because that's what the one player always wanted to do. One of the last things we did was go through a couple of dungeons the DM made, one of which we fought a dragon at the end. The details of the dungeon were rather poor and my memory even worse.
Wizard: Here we had the same players and the same motivation....go kill giants and heaven forbid do not go through a dungeon because the one player did not like them and the DM catered to him solely. So this is all I can really remember. The only personality I can recall is attempting to manipulate other characters to steal some Pegasus eggs, a task at which we failed. The wizard never really got any respect from the other players and characters because of the d4 hit die. At one point we encountered a group of ogres and the ranger decided there were to many of them for us to defeat. I got tired of being second fiddle and disrespected so I stated that I alone would defeat the ogres. After preparing the appropriate spells, the combat ensued and I succeeded in my goal while the other characters stood idly by expecting my demise.
This is about all I can recall after so many years. I am reconstructing the characters as mentioned above and would like some help in regards to personality and background development. The Game world is Greyhawk and I like to immerse my character's into the background of the game world. I not only need to come up with unique personalities but also pre-adventuring background plus fill in the level gaps ranging from level 1-11.
I'm looking for helpful ideas on which direction to develop these characters to make them as complete as possible and part of the World of Greyhawk. I am not interested in rolling up different characters as my motivations are mentioned above. The player I have is my real-life partner and supportive of these characters.
So what would you suggest? _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
I have to say that what you've presented are interesting ideas already. I don't have time at the moment to come up with complete character concepts but i have suggestions:
The Relationship Between The Two:
The main factor here is how much you want to role-play the two together -- i.e., having interactions between the two. If you want them to get along and have little friction they are going to need already be acquainted and be on friendly terms. They have either become friends after the adventures you mentioned or were associated prior to those adventures. The easiest way may be to actually make them childhood friends or even siblings or cousins. Thus, they'll have already have a pre-established rapport, and probably agree on many things. That way you'll minimize conflict or discussions between the two. You can also have them move off together, away from others if they need to converse. If they are strangers and you really want to role-play 'em, that's probably gonna entail alot more interation (leaving the other player-characters out). And it wouldn't be too uncommon for a mage and a paladin to disagree on matters. My gut is saying "cousins." Maybe even two teens who managed to escape an assault on their village: the only ones who survived?
As Far As The Story Of Each:
The Paladin:
Wow. Survived all of those modules? Damn! Survival and success seems to be this character's theme. Even overcoming dark/evil in general. That's a nasty pack of modules. Resilient, devout, relentless.
The Wizard:
That wizard is already groovy. Might have come to be know as Ogre-Breaker. Since s/he has spent time killing giants, maybe the moniker of Tree-Toppler, specializing in killing big'uns, is in order. Personality is already there. Likes to prove wrong those people who underestimate him/her. Likes to overcome tough obstacles. Stubborn. Cunning. A good person but can get downright mean if cornered.
The Duo:
Could be that they had associates/relatives (parents, if siblings, etc.) that were killed by giants, and so were somehow destined to be giant-slayers (since that's the common enemy that they fought). Maybe they even get bonuses when dealing with such beings. They might also be (still) looking for a specific giant. You don't have to gm a host of giants if you're sick of 'em. You can have the giant be a renegade who is now, say creating an army/kingdom for himself. Actually could merge the general giant-theme with darkness evil. That giant might be or have become some sort of undead or some dark sorcerer building an undead army. Etc. The two of them might have purposefully split up because they were looking for something to thwart that big beastie and thought they might cover more territory if off on their own.
The Giants Modules?:
If they haven't gone through them, you could have the party go through Against The Giants or the later Liberation of Geoff version. My guess is you have had enough of giants from your earlier gaming. Just a thought.
Question:
Did either of these characters actually go through the infamous Giants Modules?
And by the way:
My condolences for your introductory years in rpg-ing. Having a GM that blatantly favors characters or specific players is a real drag.
Anyhoo, that's just some initial impressions: maybe 2 pennies worth. Hope some of it serves to kindle your own creativity. Good luck.
I have to say that what you've presented are interesting ideas already. I don't have time at the moment to come up with complete character concepts but i have suggestions:
The Relationship Between The Two:
The main factor here is how much you want to role-play the two together -- i.e., having interactions between the two. The easiest way may be to actually make them childhood friends or even siblings or cousins. My gut is saying "cousins." Maybe even two teens who managed to escape an assault on their village: the only ones who survived?
As Far As The Story Of Each:
The Paladin:
Wow. Survived all of those modules? Damn! Survival and success seems to be this character's theme. Even overcoming dark/evil in general. That's a nasty pack of modules. Resilient, devout, relentless.
The Wizard:
That wizard is already groovy. Might have come to be know as Ogre-Breaker. Since s/he has spent time killing giants, maybe the moniker of Tree-Toppler, specializing in killing big'uns, is in order. Personality is already there. Likes to prove wrong those people who underestimate him/her. Likes to overcome tough obstacles. Stubborn. Cunning. A good person but can get downright mean if cornered.
The Duo:
Could be that they had associates/relatives (parents, if siblings, etc.) that were killed by giants, and so were somehow destined to be giant-slayers (since that's the common enemy that they fought). They might also be (still) looking for a specific giant. You can have the giant be a renegade who is now, say creating an army/kingdom for himself. Actually could merge the general giant-theme with darkness evil. That giant might be or have become some sort of undead or some dark sorcerer building an undead army. Etc. The two of them might have purposefully split up because they were looking for something to thwart that big beastie and thought they might cover more territory if off on their own.
The Giants Modules?:
If they haven't gone through them, you could have the party go through Against The Giants or the later Liberation of Geoff version. My guess is you have had enough of giants from your earlier gaming. Just a thought.
Good luck.
Thank you for your insight. This is much like writers block plus adding in the fact that these characters were played well over 30 years ago, thus the reason for my failed memory. First off, I thought I would include both individuals. As such the party will consist of a cleric, ranger, barbarian, wizard and paladin all of 11th level. Normally roleplaying would be a big event in my campaign, but these days I have only 1 player and myself, so I recognize that unless I want to talk to myself, roleplaying will take somewhat of a backseat in the game. On the plus side, I would think that this should make a pretty good party for continuing and finishing Greyhawk Ruins. It slated for levels 2-15 but I an quickly learning that with 5th edition, fights that would have been easier in previous editions are not so because of the way the rules have changed.
I had thought about having them already acquainted to make things easier, but as you have pointed out, their giant background is of coarse similar and by developing a real relationship between them, it solidifies their bond. I like the idea of brothers or cousins. This idea had not occurred to me and I like it a lot.
Paladin: Yes as a matter of fact we did go through the original giant series, I had forgotten that. I personally loved the modules and they all became favorites of mine as a DM. Looking at things from your perspective, your right, accomplishing all of those modules and surviving probably was a task that deserves credit. I had not looked at it that way. The Paladin always felt he took a backseat to the other characters. My stats were mediocre as compared to theirs, I had less magic as paladins in 1st edition were limited to what they could acquire (though these days, well groomed stats and the magic items means very little to me as a player and DM in so far as it making the character fun and successful). Back in the early 80's though, that is how we played and measured a character's worth. The paladin always felt like he's got one more fight, one more person to help, one more thing to prove. The DM was overly generous with magic (again first campaign in the early 80's did that) and as a result the paladin's armor, shield and sword were much finer than he deserved. He's always felt some guilt about acquiring perhaps the finest sword in the game, he never felt like he earned it.
Wizard: Proving the devastation and usefulness of the wizard class was something this character achieved. The spells I selected were not all about combat and so several utility spells were of use when the rangers in the party had nothing to offer in a difficult situation. I like your idea of giving the wizard a title based on the defeat of giants and ogres. I like to give titles to my characters and this was something I was looking for.
You have given me a better perspective on how to look at these individuals rather than being stuck with a memory block. I will be writing both backgrounds (which should be extensive since I need to cover childhood plus 11 levels of adventuring). I would like to entrench much of their background into Greyhawk lore.
For example, with my cleric, she was present outside of the Great Hall were the Pact of Greyhawk was signed. As a result, she almost became a causality of that conflict between Rary and the others. She as 12 at the time and I included the event in her backstory.
Certainly the paladin and wizard would have been active during the Greyhawk Wars and as such I would like to describe the events, where they were located, whom they fought with and against. Since the character's fought many giants, it makes sense in Greyhawk terms that this took place in the Lost Lands. I do remember in my brother's game world that we went to a place he called "Giant Land". We did venture a fair distance to get there so the character's could have easily hailed from another land. I also like your take on the giant renegade, army and undead. Rather than having the character's dislike having to take a backseat to giant killing because of the whims of another player, perhaps they CHOSE to because of personal interests as you have indicated.
Thank You. Fresh Perspective Needed and Appreciated. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
Several years ago I created my first character a human paladin and a human wizard that followed shortly afterwards. Both were created and played in separate campaigns under the 1st edition rules. The DM was my brother when I was a kid. Neither character had any kind of personality or background developed...neither character had any kind of personality or background and for the past several days I have been unsuccessful at coming up with any interesting ideas for either character...
-People say this a lot, but I think they really don't mean it. I think what you mean is that the personalities weren't formally writen down. Based on the things the PC's did, they obviously did have their own motivations. A detailed background might be a different story...
I'm assuming the the giant killing didn't occur in the Western Flanaess with G1-G3. If so, disregard the following! : With the exception of the Tomb of Horrors (to which high level adventurers could be called from anyone, I suppose), the adventures these PCs went through are all in the Central Flanaess, meaning they were probably from either Bissel, Veluna, Furyondy, Dyvers, the Shield Lands, or the Duchy of Urnst. I'd rule out Greyhawk itself, otherwise they would be travelling there for the first time (as seems to be the case), in which case, why didn't they adventure in Greyhawk before? Of course, maybe this as a homecoming?
Did you ever have a subconscious sense of their original socio-economic class when you played them? Was the pally from a noble family, or a commoner trained by the church? Was the magic user from a family of wizards, or a discovered prodigy?
To pick on one thing that was common Back In The Day, there were plenty of players who had clerics or paladins who, when you asked them who their deity was, would answer "I dunno, some god or somethin'". Who is the paladin's deity?
EDIT: Did you ever have an idea of what they looked like?
"My Paladin played second fiddle to a group of rangers "
I could see this paladin having some antipathy towards rangers because of this. I like the irony, since it's usually the paladins who are seen as haughty and arrogant, and this one had to deal with arrogant "nature boys".
The wizard: "I got tired of being second fiddle and disrespected so I stated that I alone would defeat the ogres. After preparing the appropriate spells, the combat ensued and I succeeded in my goal while the other characters stood idly by expecting my demise. "
How many ogres was it? Do you recall? If nothing else, pick a "close enough" number, and bear in mind word of this could get around: "Are you the same wizard ____ who single handedly defeated __ ogres at ____? Oh please! You must tell us the tale of how you accomplished this great feat! Please tell us!"
I think Syzygyst had some pretty good ides on this too. The idea of them being from the same village, or even related, makes sense. I'd add, if they just both come from an area where giant attacks are common (such as Geoff), they might not need to be from the same town, but perhaps separate villages close enough they each at least heard of the other place. "Green Rock? Yes, I know of the place. It is 5 days ride from Brighthill, where I hail from." Either way, they both have had to deal with giants, and have that common ground. And, they seem to share the additional common ground of being dumped on by their respective previous batch of companions. So, the fact that both know what it is to be constantly disrespected by those claiming to be friends, they could connect on that level.
And the ideas on each one's personality looks good too. The paladin's resilience, the wizard's taking offense at being looked down upon for not being a "strong warrior". Lovely.
As an added thought, dealing with giants so extensively, they would likely have some insight into the various gant types more than most people would have. While most adventurers might be able to guess "giants" by the tracks or other signs they leave behind, these two might be able to notice greater detail, like a discarded item such as the hilt of a dagger the blade broke off of, these two would see from the style of embellishments on the pommel that it was made by "frost giants ... definitely frost giants" I don't know a thing about 5th edition, but whatever they have for skills, maybe they have skill in "Giant Lore" either as a bonus you give them, or through skill points, to reflect how they gradually acquired the knowledge.
You pointed out "the paladin's armor, shield and sword were much finer than he deserved. He's always felt some guilt about acquiring perhaps the finest sword in the game, he never felt like he earned it. "
This looks to me like a great motivation for the paladin to "prove his worthiness". So, he's always on the lookout for more evil to smite, searching for the ultimate foe to prove his worth and do justice to the tools he was given to accomplish that task.
As for the wizard, "Proving the devastation and usefulness of the wizard class was something this character achieved." I could see the wizard getting a bit of a chip on the shoulder about this, seeing even the most unintended slights as a challenge to prove the worth/superiority of spell casting over "muggles". (please pardon my using the term)
Well, those are my thoughts. Pardon me if I got repetitive in places.
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: With the exception of the Tomb of Horrors (to which high level adventurers could be called from anyone, I suppose), the adventures these PCs went through are all in the Central Flanaess, meaning they were probably from either Bissel, Veluna, Furyondy, Dyvers, the Shield Lands, or the Duchy of Urnst. I'd rule out Greyhawk itself, otherwise they would be travelling there for the first time (as seems to be the case), in which case, why didn't they adventure in Greyhawk before? Of course, maybe this as a homecoming?
Who is the paladin's deity?