I can't resist. This is a d20 folder. The Book of Erotic Fantasy (BOEF) is a d20 product. I own a copy and am not embarassed to say that.
The book is actually pretty tame. It is "shocking" only to the extent that it talks about sex in a game. It does have some modestly graphic "fantasy" imagery but nothing worse than, or even comparable to, any number of "adult" magazines. I would know as such were common when I was in the military (Field Artillery).
Setting all the bluster and sensationalism aside, I am wondering if anyone has used anything in the BOEF in their Greyhawk games?
I would make two notes.
First, Greyhawk has surprisingly few "fertility" deities. Four races. One goddess (god) of "love?" The Greeks did better. Maybe this accounts for the low population figures in Greyhawk.
Second, there is at least one "love goddess" in Myhriss. The BOEF would seem a natural to "flesh out" (pardon the pun) Myhriss.
To date, I have not used the BOEF. Read it. And it sits on my shelf, more for a lack of time to use it than anything else.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone who owns it (and will admit it) has used it (and will talk about it).
I have the BoEF as well and aint ashamed to admit it!
Anyway I use some feats, a few spells and the feykissed, half-demon, half-devils , devilblooded and demonbred (in lieu of the half feind and feindish) templates as well as the greater succubi, its main use is the relationships of the races and types pf creatures. But as far as GH goes I will agree that the gods in GH have little in the way of pursuits of passion, Norebo with his alleged tryst with Wee Jas would lend him a bit of a rakish portfolio, and Beory as the ultimate mother godess comes to mind. I have used Luthic as an orcish birth mother and of course Sekolah as the mother/devourer are lesser known. The BoEF easily lends itself to those deities and their causes as well, and other books like The Book of Exalted Deeds and somewhat in regards to the undead and the goddess Evening Glory, Libris Mortis. _________________ Canonfire Community Supporter and Forum Justicar
I see absolutely no use for such a product in a D&D game. Sitting around a table and rolling dice to imitate sex is beyond lame. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but I don't put aside time to visit friends so that I can act out sexual fantasies with them. If I wanted to do that, I'd join a swingers club.
Aside from all of that, it's just not very well done. _________________ In more modern times, only Delglath of Rinloru is known to have crafted any items from the stone of this atrocious place. Even masters of the dark arts such as Xaene and Karoolck would hesitate to follow.
I see absolutely no use for such a product in a D&D game. Sitting around a table and rolling dice to imitate sex is beyond lame. . . . Aside from all of that, it's just not very well done.
Hi Delglath,
I can only speak for myself but the BOEF is not about roleplaying sex, IMO. It is definately about adding sexual themes but roleplaying actual coitus is not contemplated.
I would analogize it to an expansion on the old En Garde "companionship" rule or the 1E DMG "hookers" list or the City State "female tables" in terms of theme and it is certainly many steps above the tawdry efforts of the DMG and City State. I think there has been the intimation of sex in D&D since the very beginning - witness the 1E DMG. The BOEF just brings it out into the open.
And sex continues to be part of D&D outside of the BoEF. The Scarred Lands, City of Shelazar comes immediately to mind. Again, the BOEF is just upfront about it.
How to use the BOEF? Well, that was my initial question, and I think individual DMs will have individual answers. I have not used it to date but I eventually will.
The reason I have not used it is mainly time but also goes to your second point. I was very disappointed in the three new "core classes" presented. The sexual elements just seemed "tacked on" to classes that were not really "sexual" in essence, IMO. If I have a complaint about the BOEF, it is the same one I would voice about the Book of Vile Darkness - neither lived up to their billing; at the last minute the authors blinked and pulled back from a full exploration of their topics. Both the BOEF and the BOVD should, IMO, have engendered "OH MY GAWD!" reactions. Neither did IMO and that disappointed me.
I must admit. I DO NOT HAVE the BoEF, but i read it not so long ago (the problems of getting "to-read-only" products in Italy... ^_^).
Let's say I noticed too, while making a "deity list" for a project we're working on (where "we" is www.greyhawk.it), the lack of fertility deities. I strongly agree with making Luthic the deity of birth, since it's the only female orcish deity linked to female orcs, and with making Sekolah the god of birth and death (a-la Kali).
Other deities good to be included in the list of the "BoEF-friendly" gods are, IMHO:
Berna, the touv goddess of strong passions (both negative and positive).
Ehlonna. since fertility is in her portfolio (after all, she's the goddess of unicorns and of the maidens raiding them, isn't it? )
Let's not forget Myhriss (of course, she was the first I thought of while reading the material).
Olidammara could be a good deity of sexual enjoyment... What else you think is done on his fortress in Ysgard?
From the BoVD I took a quite strongly GH tied goddess for my campaign: Scharossar, sister of Olidammara and goddess of self-inflicted pain. I think she'd be a good addendum to the pantheons of Oerth and a good "Dominatrix-staila" goddess...
In the elven pantheon we have Hanali Celanil, goddess of love and romanticism.
Berronar Truesilver can be the dwarven goddess of family, marriage, and "lawful" () procreation.
For the halfling we can have Yondalla, since she's goddess of fertility.
As we said before, Luthic for the orcs. Then Hiatea for giants, Semuanya for lizardfolk...
All of these gods (mainly goddess) can be used as patrons for PrC found in the book, as well as sources of the divine spell there presented.
As long as you leave the dreaded "Appearance" () off your game, the BoEF should be quite good and quite fun to add to your play.
Oh, I completely agree with GVD: the BoEF is NOT "having sex in your game" (or your mind ): it's just a funny complement to any campaign, at least one in wich both DM and players are mature enough to handle adult themes. You can be mature enough at 16 years, or you can be with the maturity of a 12-years-old though you're 23 (the case of one of my players... ).
Now, I wont sing praises for this manual (there are many debatable optional rules) but, looking into the sea of d20 products (just read malady of kings from Troll Lord games: I never had to translate a bigger CRAP than that!), this is a good book. Funny and well done.
UMILE OPINIONE, of course.
I see absolutely no use for such a product in a D&D game. Sitting around a table and rolling dice to imitate sex is beyond lame. . . . Aside from all of that, it's just not very well done.
Hi Delglath,
I can only speak for myself but the BOEF is not about roleplaying sex, IMO. It is definately about adding sexual themes but roleplaying actual coitus is not contemplated.
I would analogize it to an expansion on the old En Garde "companionship" rule or the 1E DMG "hookers" list or the City State "female tables" in terms of theme and it is certainly many steps above the tawdry efforts of the DMG and City State. I think there has been the intimation of sex in D&D since the very beginning - witness the 1E DMG. The BOEF just brings it out into the open.
And sex continues to be part of D&D outside of the BoEF. The Scarred Lands, City of Shelazar comes immediately to mind. Again, the BOEF is just upfront about it.
How to use the BOEF? Well, that was my initial question, and I think individual DMs will have individual answers. I have not used it to date but I eventually will.
The reason I have not used it is mainly time but also goes to your second point. I was very disappointed in the three new "core classes" presented. The sexual elements just seemed "tacked on" to classes that were not really "sexual" in essence, IMO. If I have a complaint about the BOEF, it is the same one I would voice about the Book of Vile Darkness - neither lived up to their billing; at the last minute the authors blinked and pulled back from a full exploration of their topics. Both the BOEF and the BOVD should, IMO, have engendered "OH MY GAWD!" reactions. Neither did IMO and that disappointed me.
GVD
the fact that the runner of a D&D game has the kinky name of dungeon master is enough to suggest that ;) i personally wouldnt use such a book tho.
Although I don't own this book I think this is an interesting topic.
With regards to the deities of love and fertility in Greyhawk;
Myrhiss is the obvious example - a goddess of both love and lust and she is described with two aspects - the blond haired cupids bow wielding type and the dark haired whip bearing version. It is interesting to notice that in the LGG she is described as of Flan origins but in the earlier resources she is of unknown origins. IMC she is worshipped by the elves in place of Hanali as well as being worhsipped by many others.
Ehlonna - whilst supposedly a goddess of nature and fertility does not come across so strongly in that aspect...she seems quite chaste in my eyes - much like Artemis.
Olidamarra - i agree with Jakob81 - he seems a good candidate for a god of carnal pleasure.
A few of the Oeridian Season gods are also possibilities - Atroa and Wenta n particularly - Atroa as the goddes of spring and Wenta the goddess of autumn and festivity and the harvest.
Beory is a good fertility goddess example as well.
Phyton as a god of beatuy and nature could have fertility connotations too.
I think the role of sex and love in a game depends on what the group feel comfortable with. One of my players enjoys spending his hard earned gold coins from adventuring in the whorehouse but we hardly roleplay the whole nights action out - there are no initiative or skill role checks! it is implied and works better for that and also i think it adds a certain amount of earthy realism to the characters. they arent a bunch of uptight virgins but men and women with real needs that most humans and animals have.
However I respect that some people like to play a game with a 'purer' feel to it.
I see absolutely no use for such a product in a D&D game. Sitting around a table and rolling dice to imitate sex is beyond lame. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but I don't put aside time to visit friends so that I can act out sexual fantasies with them. If I wanted to do that, I'd join a swingers club.
I have to agree with Delglath here. I have no problem including sexuality in the game, especially things like fertility gods/goddesses, but this book struck me as inane.
If someone puts out a supplement that deals with the material in a better fashion, and doesn't litter it with photoshopped softcore porn to sell it, I'll check it out again, otherwise, I'll stick to what limited material I've come up with on my own. _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
I have no problem including sexuality in the game, especially things like fertility gods/goddesses, but this book struck me as inane.
If someone puts out a supplement that deals with the material in a better fashion, and doesn't litter it with photoshopped softcore porn to sell it, I'll check it out again, otherwise, I'll stick to what limited material I've come up with on my own.
I will substitute "slap and tickle" for "inane" but the point is well taken. For a book of this subject matter, I find the BoEF a bit "shy" and sort of "bashfully playful" when it is not taking itself too seriously in spots. I reads like a good first draft.
All this notwithstanding, I find it an admirable effort and useful both in general and in more specific terms. However, your latter point is one I want to address.
No supplement of which I am aware takes on the subject matter of the BoEF "head on," except the BoEF. However, you will find in a variety of supplements bits and pieces of material.
The best of these IMO is Shadizar The Wicked, a $40 boxed set for the Conan RPG (d20), which I have just finished. The idea is the prototypical "city of sin" but Mongoose, the publisher, doesn't step back or pull the curtin. There is nothing "playful" or "shy" about the presentation. From prostitution to child slavery to drug abuse and a great deal more, Shadizar gives you the "reality" of a "den of eniquity."
I cannot recommend Shadizar because the price is inflated for what you get. It is a boxed set that should have been a hardback for $30 or a softback for $25.
Sex is not the focus of Shadizar but its treatment therein is very "direct."
On a _somewhat_ lighter note, Nuisances is another overpriced (at $20 for a softback) supplement that takes EGG's "hookers table" from the 1E DMG and goes to town. I found this book a riot (very funny) and actually useful, although I don't think that the latter was the author's intent. Nuisances also has significant "Greyhawk" content, albeit of a most "unusual" nature. _________________ GVD
I don't think anyone is purposely getting personal here. This book always seems to be a volatile topic, but lets try and keep the discussion on track and not let this degrade into a flamewar.
If you want to consider adolescent content masked with soft core pornography EDIT be my guest.
Don't however try to reinterpret my opinion to fit your argument.
The book is trash of the lowest denominator, EDIT
Edited by Forumfire, Feb 13, 11:52 AM.
I do not believe I was "reinterpreting" your opinon. I obviously underestimated the depth of your dislike of this product, however.
You are certainly free to "correct" any underestimation on my part.
To be clear, I have no "argument." I am not an advocate for the BoEF, but neither am I up for a book burning.
It is what it is and may be more or less useful, or not. I will say I find the whole notion of the BoEF interesting but then I find interesting any RPG product that looks at something that no one else has looked at. Goodman Games Guide to Treants for example; there is not another Treant book out there, so I find it interesting. As it happens, the Guide to Treants is IMO one of the best d20 books out there, absolutely fascinating. While I do not find the BoEF anywhere near as good as Treants, it is interesting for being unusual. _________________ GVD
It's funny, really - the Book of Carnal Knowledge (netbook) has been out for years - though, if they're making money publishing a version, more power too 'em. *shrug*
It's funny, really - the Book of Carnal Knowledge (netbook) has been out for years - though, if they're making money publishing a version, more power too 'em. *shrug*
Thanks for the reference--I didn't know they'd done a Net Book on the subject. Very interesting, will make a good companion to TBoEF. Thanks.
Personally, I actually liked a good deal of the BoEF. The Rake PrC has, in fact, been welcomed into my "allowed PrCs" list (above a good many listed in WotC's "Complete _____" series), and several of the BoEF gods supplement the lists I use (from the PHB and Complete Divine).
At first glance I found this book a little base. But upon further examination there are good bits to be had from it. All one needs to do is get a good look under the cover (and behind some of the unpleasant graphics LOL) . _________________ Cheerz,
-Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
http://www.oerthjournal.comhttp://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
I'd never buy the book as I personally consider a campaign that concentrates too much on sex to be, as Delglath put it, inane. It's really a waste of my time. I have a wife for that stuff. However, out of sheer morbid curiosity I did spend a good 15 minutes in Hastings one time reading through it just to see what their purpose was (someone previously had removed the shrink wrap). Overall I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. My expectation was that the book would be an adolescent "huh huh, roll d20 and add your Con to see how long you can keep it up" sort of thing. Although I did find a few tables dealing with matters of that nature, they were sparse and the book basically resembled almost every other d20 splat book out there; a list of feats, spells, magic items, and prestige classes to add to your game. Of course, many had a sexual theme to them and I found a whole lot of the feats and spells utterly useless in most campaigns since they applied only to sexual situations, but I still feel it was a fair treatment of the subject and not a silly "guide to role-playing sex."
Nevertheless, I think the book lends itself to encouraging the role-playing of sex, at least indirectly. For that reason, I doubt I will ever purchase it or even pick it up again, but it's not horribly immature. I just don't see a need for anything like that in my campaign. Grazz't may like sleeping with mortal women but I don't really need a table for that. IMHO things of that nature are better left to DM discretion and should be introduced for the sake of advancing the story.
IMC there is the occassional reference to sex and I have one player character who is something of a lech. Whenever he wants to philander around, I just have him make a Charisma check against a DC I set based on the kind of women are around. If he beats the DC he impresses them enough to have an enjoyable evening and that's about where I leave it. There's also an NPC priestess of Atroa who is a friend of the party and recently got impregnated by a scoundrel who works as a fence and black market dealer. But that's because I figure her child might make for a dandy player character down the road when this adventure ends and these PCs retire. Not only that but according to Dragon 267, priestesses of Atroa really like getting pregnant and see it as the penultimate "blessing" of the Wind Daughter.
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), the lack of fertility deities. I strongly agree with making Luthic the deity of birth, since it's the only female orcish deity linked to female orcs, and with making Sekolah the god of birth and death (
) procreation.
) off your game, the BoEF should be quite good and quite fun to add to your play. 
): it's just a funny complement to any campaign, at least one in wich both DM and players are mature enough to handle adult themes. You can be mature enough at 16 years, or you can be with the maturity of a 12-years-old though you're 23 (the case of one of my players... 
).
