Hello. I am gathering the elements at my disposal on the Paynims. The map of migrations after the cataclysms indicates a Baklunish and Oeridian migration towards the north of the flanaess. The LGG states: “TIGER NOMADS
History: The Tiger Nomads were driven from the southern plains by the invading Brazen Horde almost three centuries ago. Thrown together with the Wolf Nomads, and other bands of mixed Oerid and Baklunish refugees from the plains, they arrived in the northern steppes in defeat and disarray. Yet, within a few years, they grew strong enough for their ilkhan to command the whole of the western steppes under the great Kha-Khan Ogobanuk of the Relentless Horde (c. 320 CY). With their cousins, the Wolf Nomads, they were the terror of the north, from the Dramidj coast to the Griff Mountains. When Kha-Khan Ogobanuk made his final journey to the invisible realm in 345 CY, the ilkhan of the Tiger Nomads with Drew from the Relentless Horde, forming his own nation of Chakyik”.
A first question: Was there one migration or two migrations? baklunish/oeridian to the north. Is the arrow on the map the migration around 300 CY?
The first settled baklunish are led by Khans. Were they part of a first Horde that destroyed an existing empire/kingdom? One hypothesis in WGA4 indicates the empire/kingdom of Vecna located to the west of the mountain range. Their empire destroyed, the flanae were the first humans to penetrate to the east, founding the Flanaesse.
The survivors of the second horde (Brazen Horde) would bear the titles of Padishah, Shah and Emir. Doesn't make much sense to me? Isn't it simpler to think that this first horde founded the baklunish empire and took the imperial titles of Padishah, Shah and Emir while some remained nomads on the borders of the empire and kept their Khan titles.
All this is from my own campaign, so take from it what you will.
First, there are many different 'Flan' nations. The Rovers of the Barrens are a different people than the Flan of Perrenland. The people of Geoff are a third distinct people, as were the people of the ancient kingdoms of Ahlissa, Tostenka, Sulm, the Isles of Woe, etc. Vecna's Occluded Empire encompassed lands conquered from several of these other groups of people, though it began in the Sheldomar Valley where lived the same ethnic/cultural group of people whose descendants now inhabit Geoff. These disparate cultural groups had a common tongue, based on trade, much like the Common Tongue currently used in the Flanaess. The word 'Flan' simply means 'People'. When the Oeridians, Suel, and Baklunish immigrants encountered these people, they all referred to themselves as 'Flan', so that is the name the immigrants gave to them all.
The Rovers used to roam the grasslands from the Rakers in the east, all the way to the Drawmij Ocean in the west. When the first Baklunish invaders (the Relentless Horde) road north past the Yatil Mountains and decended from the Yecha Hills into the northern grasslands, they swept the thinly scattered Rovers tribes before them. The Rovers were driven all the way to the Howling Hills before a great enough force was gathered to stop the Wolf Nomad advance. A great battle was fought and many on both sides were slain. A peace was made after that battle and the dead were buried together to commemorate the peace agreement between the two peoples. This is why the Howling Hills burial mounds remain a sacred place to the Wolf Nomads today. The two nations agreed that the Dulsi River would mark their respective borders and trade was established. Raids between the two became competitive games, with warriors counting coup rather than striking to kill.
Later, the Brazen Horde (1) emerged from the Yecha Hills and fell upon the Wolf Nomads much as they had done to the Rovers. The Wegwuir, however were more familiar with the military tactics of their Tiger cousins than had been the Rovers and they called on their friends to the east for aid. The Rovers answered with many thousands of mounted warriors and together with the Wegwuir, their armies were able to stop the Tigers' Brazen Horde at the Fler River. A detente ensued at that point. The Tiger Nomads and Wolf Nomads never made a lasting peace and have always mistrusted and warred with each other. (2) Neither side counts coup when they raid each other.
Later still, Iuz rose to power and his armies took the land north of Whystil Lake. Having raised armies of gebli, euroz, and other humanoids, they were too strong for the Rovers to dislodge. The Rovers were pushed further east and lament their lost access to the graves of their revered anscestors in the Howling Hills.
(1) A portion of the Brazen Horde followed the Relentless Horde north. Fanatical clerics declared that their holy mission to cleanse the land had not been completed by chasing the Wolf Nomads from the Plains of the Paynims. The gods insisted that they follow them east and finish the job by destroying them to the last man. This belief is still held by the Chakyik today, but it is not pressing enough to cause the entire nation to go to war with the Wegwuir again.
(2) This is because the Tiger Nomads still believe their gods want the Wolf Nomads wiped off the face of the Oerth.
All this is from my own campaign, so take from it what you will.
First, there are many different 'Flan' nations. The Rovers of the Barrens are a different people than the Flan of Perrenland. The people of Geoff are a third distinct people, as were the people of the ancient kingdoms of Ahlissa, Tostenka, Sulm, the Isles of Woe, etc. ... These disparate cultural groups had a common tongue, based on trade, much like the Common Tongue currently used in the Flanaess. The word 'Flan' simply means 'People'. When the Oeridians, Suel, and Baklunish immigrants encountered these people, they all referred to themselves as 'Flan', so that is the name the immigrants gave to them all...
-My understanding isn't that far from yours. IMC, I assume that there was one Flann language (Ancient Flann), and that (for example) Geoffite, Rovers, Tenha, and Colten are almost the same, with Colten and Rover virtually the same, both noticeably different from Geoffite, but witha lot of similarities in grammar and vocab': Basic biographical information (name, age, sex, race, place of origin, profession, immediate family); basic number concepts (0-100, pair, dozen); basic one-word answers (“maybe,” “left”/“right,” “up”/“down,” “good”/“bad”); and basic commands (“stop!” “help!”).
Taking into account everything written about the Baklunish, I have come to the following conclusions:
There are four core groups that make up the Baklunish based on Earthly linguistic elements. These are the Arabic, the Persian, the Mongolian, and the Hungarian. Yes, the Hungarian are a very odd man out there, but they are there.
These groups have varying rates of admixture with the Oeridians who passed through their lands. Just how much varies from the Folio to the racial makeups that appear in the Boxed Set to the emphasis on pure racial stocks in GH 98 and the LGG.
If you go by the history of the Folio, that admixture from greatest to least is as follows: Hungarian, Mongolian, Arabic, Persian.
These is also some mixing between these groups.
These groups are distributed as follows:
Hungarian: Ket, possibly some connection to Onnwal
Mongolian: Tiger Nomads, Wolf Nomads, Ull, southwestern Plains of the Paynims
Arabic: Ekbir, Tusmit, Zeif, southeastern Plains of the Paynims (Dry Steppes)
Persian: northern Plains of the Paynims
The Brazen Horde are the Persian Baklunish. They appeared around 250 CY, driving across the plains, invading Tusmit and conquering Ket. From Ket they raided Veluna, and probably Gran March/Keoland. They were driven out from Bissel and later Ket by Keoland. Their name comes from the LGG, along with the fact of their being invited by a ruler of Zeif.
The Relentless Horde are part of the Mongolian Baklunish. They were cut off from the Uli and the other Paynims by the arrival of the Brazen Horde. The Relentless Horde went north through Tusmit and Ekbir before arriving in the far north and eventually reaching the Griff Mountains before being driven back to the lands of the Tiger and Wolf Nomads. They were originally described as "mixed Bakluinish-Oeridian bands" in the Folio. In the Boxed Set they are described as "pure Baklunish", though the Wolf Nomads have some Flan admixture from the Rovers of the Barrens. In the LGG, this was enhanced, and some small Oeridian bands are said to exist in the Burneal Forest. Similarly, Oeridians in Ull and the Dry Steppes are identified as the Yorodhi, implying the Baklunish in those areas are "pure".
I prefer the Folio demographics with these Mongolian language Baklunish (using the title of khan with modifiers) are mixed with Oeridians in all areas. Further, I expect the Tiger and Wolf Nomads both have Flan admixture, as before they arrived only the Flan would have been there, likely a branch of the Rovers of the Barrens.
Based on material in the LGG and LGJ5, Zeif was originally held by what were likely a branch of the Persian Baklunish. They were conquered by a tribe of Mongolian Paynims. Those Mongolian Paynims later adopted the faith of, and probably intermixed with, the Arabic Baklunish of Ekbir.
The Arabic Baklunish appear split into two groups. One remained in the Dry Steppes somehow. The main group went north after the Twin Cats and founded Ekbir. They seem to have settled Tusmit as well. Given the politics along the Tuflik River, it is possible the Hungarian Bakunish originally held all of those lands and the Arabic Baklunish absorbed most of them with the Hungarian Baklunish retaining more power as you go east into Ket. That is not overtly stated but it is what the titles, names, and politics suggest.
Given that Common is a mix of Baklunish and Oeridian, intermixing between the two seems rather a given. Due to the extant of the Great Kingdom, it is likely this occurred in two waves. The first time before the Twin Cats and into the early Migrations, the second time at the height of the Great Kingdom, from around 110-250 CY. During that period Zeif ruled Ket and the Great Kingdom ruled Perrenland, giving them a weak direct border. No one ruled Bissel, so trade through the Fals Gap was open though risky.
I cover all but the last part of this in my TNC materials. I have something pending that I wrote with Paul Looby (who actually wrote most of it based on the outline I produced after we had traded thoughts on it on Discord) that covers that last part about Common.
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