I watched Greyhawk Grognard's video on the history of Castle Greyhawk's ruins. And I'm wondering, what are your personal takes on the following three products? As in, what shall I get?
* Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk (by Wizards of the Coast)
* WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins (TSR, inc.)
* WG7 Castle Greyhawk
Expedition fails in only one critical way - the central villain isn't the real McCoy. Blah! I changed that for my sake. Yes, it was enjoyable.
WGR1... how much time do you and can the repetitive nature of a lengthy dungeon keep your PCs' attention? I'd weed out the number of rooms to only the critical ones that advance the story you're telling. Yes, it was enjoyable.
Both of these will require you to season to taste.
WG7... just no. Don't waste your money. If you get it for free, don't waste your time. There's nothing to salvage either IMHO.
I agree with Skech's assessment, but will add a little.
Greyhawk Ruins really is a fantastic mega-dungeon, but takes a bit of work by the DM to make it believable. IIRC, one level has about 30 minotaurs controlling, and living in, 7 or 8 rooms while 50 orogs control, and live in, an adjoining 7 or 8 rooms. These two groups fight each other for control of more rooms. This is not believable at all, since neither group could possibly survive. It hearkens back to the old modules that had a random assortment of rooms with a new monster in each one and a few empty rooms for the DM to populate as s/he saw fit.
On the other hand, there is a story, of sorts for each of the three towers. Like Skech said, if you focus on the story in each tower and get rid of extraneous/extra encounters that really don't belong, your PCs will have a more believable adventure.
Expedition focuses on a new storyline that sends the (higher level) PCs through a set series of rooms. It is ostensibly set to occur after the original dungeons (Greyhawk Ruins) have been cleared.
Castle Greyhawk (WG7) is a spoof adventure that isn't even good at its intended purpose. Don't waste your players' time with it.
WGR1 is the best version of the Castle Greyhawk to date. It's also the biggest and most complete dungeon ever published by TSR/WOTC (with the possible exception of 5e's Dungeon of the Mad Mage which is huge but suffers from Undermountain's forever incompleteness). Extremely easy to pick up and play with a great, space-saving paragraph format. Lots of plot hooks, mysterious characters, and work for the DM to do to make it their own. Authors got a fair amount of advice from James Ward and did their diligence with what had been published about CG, only missing the Gord references. Maps have excellent three-dimensionality (shafts, pits, ramps, terraces, etc), which is one of the most important features of compelling dungeons.
It's important to run such a dungeon as a sandbox, like ToEE, and not and endless dungeon crawl. There's great potential to tie WGR1 to the WGA series, with characters beginning as simple treasure seekers in the dungeons and slowly discovering bits about Iuz while exploring Greyhawk between forays, then becoming embroiled in the WGA Falcon series. The WGA modules are flawed and need work, but are worth the time spent modifying.
The few cons of WGR1 stem from TSR policies at the time, namely, satanic-panic whitewashing and the authors couldn't reference out-of-print products. Together this limited monster selection to a handful of the first MC appendices. The result is extremely "PG" and desperately cries to DM's to go through and sprinkle demons, weird critter from Fiend Folio, and more spooky sundries, then add the connections to EX1, EX2, WG6, the Enigma of Greyhawk, and fraz urb'luu. Also, the maps have some inconveniences and be sure to track down the color-coded elevation key.
--
WG7 you can certainly skip, but it's cheap used and available POD on DTRPG, so why not pick it up? I used the levels as one-shots for a few years on occasional weeks when my group wanted to play but numerous players were absent. Like any anthology, some chapters can be skipped and a couple are truly outstanding and could even be added to WGR1. Level 9 is particularly awesome.
--
Expedition does not cover the whole dungeon like WGR1. It's an example of how to use the dungeons for a conventional campaign. It's also a city sourcebook and update to Greyhawk City as the authors were rightfully concerned Greyhawk might not get any official support for a long time. Good for 3e players and DM's who want a traditional campaign. Also good for lore and easter eggs for any Greyhawk DM. Not good for those looking for the complete dungeon. It's also very railroady, with multiple scripted encounters with demigods where players do nothing. Finally, I greatly dislike the 3.5e format where encounters with a handful of hobgoblins devour two full pages with stat blocks and tactical maps. The format was designed to sell accessories at the time and adds little value to classic players accustomed to modules like G1-3 and WGR1.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises