This past weekend I made a post I entitled, “WeeJas Threatens Your Manhood,” wherein I opined that WeeJas had been unfairly and wrongfully “downgraded” in her capacity as a goddess of magic and death, with particular reference to Boccob and Nerull. I further opined that this could be seen in an uncharacteristic “explaining” of WeeJas and that in some quarters the treatment of WeeJas could be viewed as “sexist.” I made specific reference to “canon authors” in my initial post but named no names.
Unhappily, a number of CF members read my post to be a personal attack directed toward them and material they had created and shared. My subsequent attempts to draw a distinction between fan authors and published authors proved unavailing to me and I became irritated at what I saw as an unwarranted taking of offense. Matters proceeded downhill from there.
An issue also arose over the appropriateness of my post, even if limited to just published authors.
The entire thread was hidden and taken under review by CF staff. In an impromptu Greychat this past Monday, I offered that it would be fine by me if the thread were terminated. I believe this is why the thread has not reappeared.
With this background, I apologize to each and any member of Canonfire who was offended by my WeeJas post.
While it was not my intention to offer personal insult to any member of CF, no matter my subjective intent, my post obviously caused some to become upset and to be personally insulted. For this, I apologize. While the understanding of differing varieties of “authorship” and the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of comments directed to such contributed, I believe, to the problem, my intentional use of hyperbole and provocative language without doubt contributed to the fiasco. In sum, the matter was substantially my fault. At the very least, I might have attempted to deescalate matters but did not do so.
With the foregoing, I hope to “clear the air.” I think this the right thing to do but I also do not want to completely abandon the topic of WeeJas.
If one thing became clear to me, amidst the upset, it is that I stand at some remove, in one way or another, from the mainstream of thought on WeeJas. I think the burden of proof, so to speak, then falls to me to establish a prima facie case for my position. I am in the process of drafting a topical submission on WeeJas that I will also post to this folder and this thread. Somewhat unusually for me, it will be entirely anchored in canon and will both quote and cite to canon “authority,” although the reasoning and conclusions will, obviously, be mine. While it may prove more or less persuasive, it will at least be clear how I arrive at my thoughts. My unadorned premise is that - WeeJas should in no way be considered a “limited” deity of magic and death and should be accounted the full equal of Boccob and Nerull with respect to these domains. If anyone wishes to take issue with my conclusions they will be free to do so knowing how I arrived at those conclusions.
I would not be me if I did not note that in any individual’s game, canon is irrelevant or only as relevant as you want it to be. So, then. Why worry about WeeJas? Particularly, when I find canon too often constricting of the imagination? As it happens, I find WeeJas a goddess of great potential and appeal. Her appeal is in some measure visceral but also practical. (Pardon, but it would take overlong to explain the practical appeal I see; that’s a whole separate post.) If WeeJas is “diminished” in canon or in the public mind for too long a period, what I believe to be fallacy will become fact. That, in my view, would be extremely unfortunate. Thus, I have a “passion” for the question of WeeJas.
Well, that is my apology and my attempt to bring this issue back around for discussion in a less “passionate” and more clinical fashion. Don’t feel you need to wait on me; feel free to discuss WeeJas among yourselves in this thread. As the man said, “I’ll be back.” Hopefully, sometime this weekend with my submission.
Nice Apology,
But no body apologized to me for their mentioning of the forbidden word (*row). With that said I also see Wee Jas as a much more potent Deity. Many societies equated magic with Life and Death. So iwould say that she is more a Death Goddess and Might have to share some of her Magic Portfolio wih another counterpart. However what other Suel Deity could contend with her. Simply put it would be Lendor the creater of the Suel people and Pantheon. Unlike most life and Death Deities these two get along quite well. Some people see Wee Jas as a guide into the realm of death while Lendor is seen as both life and Death, for time is responsible for both.
Wee jas is a deity that only the truly rigid could ever hope to follow. So i think it ultimatly depends on the view one has for each of the deities. Wee Jas could easily be as powerful as both Nerull and Boccob. However one can say this is due to the dual portfolio
I'm interested to read what you have to write on the matter, GVD.
GVDammerung wrote:
I would not be me if I did not note that in any individual’s game, canon is irrelevant or only as relevant as you want it to be.
While I totally agree with this, I'll also explain my own stance: I don't run a Greyhawk game. Never have, probably never will. Any GH writing I do is an exercise in creativity addressed to a broader and more informed audience than my own homebrew can gather, and "canon" is an important reference in that exercise. I don't have any qualms about violating canon, but I think it's important that when I do so, I have a reason I can explain. Canon isn't a wall around a court, it's flags at the corners.
Not sure if that applies to this conversation at all, but thought I'd throw it out there anyhow.
Well. That was easier than I thought. But the result is overlong. And ended up in two parts - WeeJas Dissected and WeeJas Resurrected. The first is purely a canon appraisal of WeeJas. The second is a campaign look at WeeJas. I have decided to upload both to CF as topical entries. Afterwhich, I will post each in this folder but with separate threads to keep discussion focused.
I also make use of Wee Jas extensively in my campaign because she has a kind of Iconic appeal to me. However, I think it fair to say that over-all, if you take the position that some, if not all, gods derive their power from the number of their worshippers and the strength of their convictions (a-la Vecna Lives), her stature might be diminished when compared to deities billed as 'common,' rather than those designated to a certain culture (e.g., Suel, Oeridian, Flan). That said, it's hard to imagine anyone worshipping Boccob with any conviction with an appelation like "the Uncaring." One would think that his numbers would dwindle along with his power after a while, simply because they aren't getting the attention they need.
In my campaign, Wee Jas IS the SUEL Goddess of magic, in places dominated by Suel culture, though she is rapidly gaining in popularity among other cultures as one would imagine would happen in places like Keoland, where there has been a co-mingling of Suel, Flan, and Oeridian peoples for quite some time. You see, she cares about her worshippers and Boccob doesn't. Thus, her power is growing. And I plan on a rift growing between the strictly hide-bound followers of the Old Ways (i.e., the very lawful, rule-ridden Church of the Lady of Book and Bone, and one might add, probably racist) and the new, more pragmatic and toned-down worshippers, who have brought in other ideas from their own cultures.
Wee Jas may be vain and dedicated to Law, but she is also smart and may realize that an alignment shift (say to Neutral) would put her ahead in the follower game, because she would gain more followers.
An interesting development in my campaign is that the Priestess of Wee Jas has become a detective of sorts, called in to help solve murder mysteries because of her ability to converse with the dead--with Wee Jas' permission, of course. What if the church marketed themselves as investigators of murder and other wrongful deaths? Would that also gain her more followers and therefore more power on Oerth?
Just my $2 worth.
I appreciate this thread because I appreciate Wee Jas.
. . . That said, it's hard to imagine anyone worshipping Boccob with any conviction with an appelation like "the Uncaring." One would think that his numbers would dwindle along with his power after a while, simply because they aren't getting the attention they need. . . .
Wee Jas may be vain and dedicated to Law, but she is also smart and may realize that an alignment shift (say to Neutral) would put her ahead in the follower game, because she would gain more followers.
I personally do not subscribe to the "accountancy" principle of divinity for the reason you point out. Boccob would hardly be a greater god. Peasant deities would rule the roost, particularly those of agriculture and weather. I also do not want to keep track of worshipers. No divine excel spreadsheets! Please!
The alignment shift question as it relates to WeeJas is interesting. "Canon" (however dubious) already has moved her slightly, so movement is more than just a possibility. The development of her portfolios also suggests something of this. In the Black Satin entry (see WeeJas Resurrected), I play with this idea a little. _________________ GVD
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At the very least, I might have attempted to deescalate matters but did not do so. 
So, then. Why worry about WeeJas? Particularly, when I find canon too often constricting of the imagination? As it happens, I find WeeJas a goddess of great potential and appeal. Her appeal is in some measure visceral but also practical. (Pardon, but it would take overlong to explain the practical appeal I see; that’s a whole separate post.) If WeeJas is “diminished” in canon or in the public mind for too long a period, what I believe to be fallacy will become fact. That, in my view, would be extremely unfortunate. Thus, I have a “passion” for the question of WeeJas. 
As the man said, “I’ll be back.” 
Hopefully, sometime this weekend with my submission.
