Before I bother Gary over at Dragonsfoot, I thought I'd run this by you all. The '83 boxed set includes a PC birth table (adapted from a Dragon article by Len Lakofka) showing the predominant alignments of each region. There is also an "alignment map" which supposedly illustrates the same thing. However, there are many discrepancies between the two. Is there any anecdotal evidence as to which more accurately reflects Gary's design (i.e., Gary approved Len's article, but not the map, or vice versa)?
This is what I've worked up so far on Dragonsfoot. Keep in mind that this is for pre-Wars (c. 576) Greyhawk.
I'm going to break down the discrepancies by region, and see if we can collectively work through them. For simplicity (for the reader, not me ), I'll color code the entries as follows:
Red will be for "Likely alignments" on the original birth chart from Dragon #52, p. 18.
Orange will be for "most common alignments" noted within the text of the above article (Dragon #52, pp. 20 & 22).
Green will be for "Most Common Alignment(s)" listed on the revised birth chart in the Glossography, p. 31.
Blue will be for "Regional Alignments" as depicted on the map in the Guide, p. 44.
In each case, I'll use large text to indicate which alignment I think represents the "regime", and small text for alignments I think are out of place. Here goes:
Almor, Prelacy of -- LN, LG; LN, LG; LN, LG; N, NG, CG
Bandit Kingdoms -- CN, CE; CN, CE, NE (no "regime", per se)
Bissel, March of -- NG, N, LG, LN; NG; NG, N, LG, LN; LG, LN
Blackmoor -- LN, LE, NE
Bone March -- CE; N, CN, CE
Celene, Kingdom of -- CG; LN, N, NG (LN in Celene?)
Ekbir, Caliphate of -- LN, N; LN; LN, N; LG, NG
Frost Barbarians -- CN; CN, CE; CN; CN
Furyondy, Kingdom of -- LG, NG, LN; LG; LG, NG, LN; LG
Geoff, Grand Duchy of -- CG, CN, NG; CG; CG, CN, NG; N, NG, CG
Gran March -- LN; LN; LN; LN, N
Great Kingdom -- Any; CE, LE; Any; CN
Greyhawk, Free City of -- Any; Any; Any; Any (Directing Oligarchy tends towards LN.)
Highfolk -- CG, N, CN; N, CG; CG
Horned Society -- LE; LE
Ice Barbarians -- CN; CN, CE; CN; CN
Idee, County of -- N, CN; LN; N, CN; NG, CG
Irongate -- LN; LN; LN; LN
Iuz, Land of -- CE; CE
Keoland, Kingdom of -- LN, LG, NG, CG, CN, N; CG, NG; LN, NG, CG, CN, N; LG, NG, N
I wonder whether the LGG writers made a mistake in ascribing LG and NG alignments to Ratik, given that the 1983 boxed set described it as N, CN and even CE, if page 31 of the Glossography is to be believed. I think Ratik is rougher, tougher and more discriminating than they or I originally noted in our takes on the realm.
This all seems good, but I personally think political necessity trumps ideology quite a bit-the ostensibly LG/LN United States might have had to cooperate with a CN/CE Soviet Union to defeat the Nazis, even though each had an ideology abhorrent to the other. After the war ended, the two big powers became enemies. Surely the same could occur elsewhere-the Horned Society and Furyondy might, in theory, cooperate against a massive invasion by Iuz, or at least force the demigod to fight on two fronts? After all, if the demigod wins, they both lose. Or what about the Bandits of Stoink cooperating with the County of Urnst in case of an invasion by Nyrond, the Horned Society, the Pale, the Duchy of Urnst, Furyondy, or what have you?
In real life, countries that are supposed to be allies get into squabbles all the time-witness the eternal feud between the Americans and the French, despite the fact that each country has done great things for the other in the past? How about the disputes between Canada and the U.S.? It could easily be that Idee and Irongate would fall to war over trade disputes, forcing Onnwal, Sunndi and Nyrond to take sides in the conflict, and end up dealing with the consequences of their choice. If the Iron League states were all after the same legendary treasure hoards, such as the hoards of Iggwilv or Acerak, they might resort to spying and sabotage to gain an advantage...though it won't be as cutthroat and violent as if they were competing with the Aerdi.
To make a long story short, I think even good countries won't hesitate to play hardball when they feel they have to, and canon shows how Nyrond fought Urnst, and Keoland suffered a string of defeats by everyone from Geoff to the Yeomanry to Furyondy to the Ulek states, all of whom are supposed to be the "good guys". As a result, alignment plays an important factor, but it isn't the be-all and end-all of behavior. _________________ <div align="left">Going to war without Keoland is like going to war without a pipe organ. They both make a lot of noise and they're both a lot of dead weight, so what's the point in taking them along? </div>
Well, Gary created the alignment map, so I'd asume that it is along the lines of what he wanted.
I don't know if Gary approved Len's article, but it is there nonetheless. It would seem odd if it wasn't referenced in the creation of the alignment map in later publications. Either can be used. FYI: the 83' boxed set is a boxing up of a previous folder/folio version of virtually the same thing. There were a few differences between the two, namely on the magical runes and sigils page(the older one had more). I can't remember how much earlier this folder/folio version came out though(I bet somebody here knows theough! ). Generally the morre recent/updated version is looked on as the one to follow, but to each their own.
As to the LGG, the writers do take into account events of the Greyhawk Wars and events directly thereafter. I agree that Ratik should be a rougher place, but I recall somebody mentioning that there was a shift in the alignment of that area due to its invasion by a more good-aligned force. I do not know if some things are just simple mistakes, or intentional changes on the part of the writers. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Well, Gary created the alignment map, so I'd asume that it is along the lines of what he wanted.
I don't know if Gary approved Len's article, but it is there nonetheless. It would seem odd if it wasn't referenced in the creation of the alignment map in later publications. Either can be used. FYI: the 83' boxed set is a boxing up of a previous folder/folio version of virtually the same thing. There were a few differences between the two, namely on the magical runes and sigils page(the older one had more). I can't remember how much earlier this folder/folio version came out though(I bet somebody here knows theough! ). Generally the morre recent/updated version is looked on as the one to follow, but to each their own.
As to the LGG, the writers do take into account events of the Greyhawk Wars and events directly thereafter. I agree that Ratik should be a rougher place, but I recall somebody mentioning that there was a shift in the alignment of that area due to its invasion by a more good-aligned force. I do not know if some things are just simple mistakes, or intentional changes on the part of the writers.
See, unfortunately, there's no real evidence that Gary did in fact create the alignment map. A great deal of the '83 boxed set was not actually written by him. (The weather system, for example, was derived from a Dragon article written by a non-TSR staffer.) If I knew for sure that he wrote it himself, then I could certainly overlook Len Lakofka's conflicting chart. As it stands, though, they were both printed in the same product, so I'm trying to work through the contradictions.
The '83 boxed set was an expansion of the original '80 folio. I own both. While there is more information overall in the boxed set, very little from the folio was actually changed (aside from one or two runes, as you mentioned). Virtually everything that was added to the boxed set was originally printed in Dragon (including Gary's write-ups of the gods of the Flanaess; Len's Suel pantheon, as well as his original alignment chart; the aforementioned weather system; etc.).
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), I'll color code the entries as follows:
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