I've seen some posts that suggest that the Flan are akin to the Native American plains indians, while others suggest a more celtic flavor (like the Geoff site).
Which do you use? Is there another option that I'm overlooking?
Words like Flanaess and Keraptis don't give much in guide lines.
...Help if we just shared some of the Flan names we use? In the campaigns I run and play in, we've had Flan PCs named Barada, Geric, and Caderyn. I've also established that most village names in South Province are Flan words, and Prymp would be included with that list.
EGG recently posted this in response to a post stating that the Flan were a blend of Native American and Celtic:
"I can say that the Flan were not meant to be anything like the American Indians. they were of Hamatic-like racial origin, Negroes if you will. Little is known of them because they were generally absorbed into the waves of other peoples immigrating eastwards through the continent, so their culture was generally lost."
Hamatic should be hematic, or haematic, which would mean brownish red in this instance. He also opined that Bigby would be of mixed Flan-Suloise background.
Scott
EGG recently posted this in response to a post stating that the Flan were a blend of Native American and Celtic:
"I can say that the Flan were not meant to be anything like the American Indians. they were of Hamatic-like racial origin, Negroes if you will. Little is known of them because they were generally absorbed into the waves of other peoples immigrating eastwards through the continent, so their culture was generally lost."
Hamatic should be hematic, or haematic, which would mean brownish red in this instance. He also opined that Bigby would be of mixed Flan-Suloise background.
Scott
First, the EGG's contradictions of previous work are legion. You would do better to parse his statement above as really meaning...
a) the Flan as I conceive of them now, or
b) the Flan as I thought about them at one point, even though that thought didn't get put into the published setting.
As far as "Hamatic", you take this to come from haem meaning red, like hematite. But the EGG's reference to Negroes means that he actually meant to say "Hamitic". The ethnic groups of northern africa can be divided into "Semitic" and "Hamitic" (Semites and Hamites), or at least they were ages ago when the EGG was educated. I believe linguists still use these terms even if physical anthropologists don't. In general, Semitic are lighter skinned asian derived peoples like arabs and jews, hamitic are darker skinned african derived people like ethiopeans.
This reference to "Hamitic" originally comes from the story of Noah in the book of Genesis. Noah had three sons - Ham, Shem, and the other one. Ham made the mistake of seeing his father Noah drunk and naked, and so was cursed by G-d. This curse was passed on to his descendents, so the descendents of Ham are a cursed race. If you are first melennium BC Jew, or a 19th century european linguist, it is clear that black africans are a cursed race, so they must be descendents of Ham and therefore "Hamitic".
If you modern cultural relativist, you may find the whole idea of calling black people a cursed race incredibly offensive and of dubious scholarly merit. However, as I said, I think the term is still used by linguists. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
How is EGG contradicting himself though? Physically, the Flan have no resemblance to the Celts or Native Americans. The recent quote refers to their physical appearance, and it doesn't contradict the original description of the Flannae at all. Culturally, I've never thought the Flan had a Celtic feel (the Oeridians come closest IMO). Based on the description of the Rovers of the Barrens, I can see where the Native American angle comes from, but the Rovers aren't representative of all the Flan, nor are they pure Flan. The cultural history of the Flannae is vague enough that you could devise just about anything.
Scott
I remember the first time I thought Gygax was contradicting his own setting. I had just recently joined Greytalk and Gygax was stating there that the more advanced cultures of the Flanaess were, in some respects, as far advanced as the Tudor period (I paraphrase, of course). "Tudor?" I thought. Hadn't D&D always been advertised as a medieval setting? How could Greyhawk be so different? The revelation was uncomfortably jarring. However, that and many other examples (including -- bringing us back around to the topic at hand -- the intended nature of the Flan) only show how much of Gary's vision he purposely left out of the published version of Greyhawk. And he did it so that, amongst other things, we could each make the Flan whatever we wanted them to be.
That said, there have also been instances when Gygax has changed his mind about Greyhawk and fantasy settings in general. He has, generally, been quick to admit when his feelings have changed, like when he was publicly announcing how much more prevalent clerical magic should be in a fantasy world.
I first found this site because I was trying to come up with some Flan names myself. I personally have always felt that the Flan where Native American / Celtic also (and I still have my origonal WoG books from when I was a kid).
The Flanaess always seemed like a stylized medieval europe, with the Oeridians being Anglo-Saxon (many of the towns seem to have distinctly Anglo names), the Suel being Norse/Germanic (and in cases where they mixed with the Oerids, more like the Scotts and Irish), and the Flan being like the druidic people who built Stonehenge, etc. (but with a distinctly Native America Feel).
Interestingly, when I found this site I had just typed 'flan names' into google. One of the entries that came up was a baby names site. Turns out that Flan is a CELTIC name, meaning "from Flannery."
Howdy, ando_tane. Interesting bit about Flan bing a word of Celtic origin. I have no idea what a Flannery is, but from YourDictionary.com com there is this:
(Pronunciation Key)flan Listen: [ fln, flän, flä ] n. 1. A tart with a filling of custard, fruit, or cheese. 2. See crème caramel. 3. A metal disk to be stamped as a coin; a blank.
Actually some of us have known that "dark bronze" skin tones meant light skinned blacks for a long time.
Just like olive skin meant Mediterraneans/Semites.
The thing is, other elements, like hair type and color and eye color were neatly mixed up, to the point that saying any GH race is directly any real world race is going to fall short. Forcing cultural equations is an equal waste. In the end, you must just accept them being completely new creations, and give them whatever cultural traits works for your campaign.
The Geoff guys have gone heavy Celtic, something that has been picked up by the Circle guys who did Tenh. That may wind up becoming the canon default, but we will have to wait and see. And I'm sure some will continue to do whatever they please.
In my campaign, the native Flan people(s) use a lot of nature related names, similar to how I portray the Elves. In my game, a common theme for the Flan name is based off of what the father first saw when his child was born OR what the day/night was like during the birth of the child. It is not uncommon to have a name like "Running Deer," "Jaon Thundercloud" or "Braf Birchwind." Sometimes children are named after a characteristic of their parents; "Glov Longspear," "Flen Heavyhand" or "Norna Greenstars." I like to try and add some minute touches to the npc's myself, so maybe this will help. Good luck and may your game fair well!
Totally overlooked the possibility that the Flan are actually a spanish custard eating people. Damn! Back to the drawing board.
Anyway, I just did some reading up on Celtic culture, and pre-Celtic culture in England. No body has any real idea what the people who built stonehenge, built all the mounds in england, etc. really looked like (these where all constructed long before Celtic times). In some ways I guess this is somewhat analogous to what EGG was saying about Flan culture having been mostly swept away before the present era.
I guess the main reason that I've always thought the Flan where some sort of Native American / druidic group was how they were presented in the origonal 1983 WoG books. Along with the discription of the various races their was a picture of some people standing around in some sort of town square. In the square where four humans, and some demi-humans.
Of the humans, one is a clearly a Baklunish woman, dressed in a very middle-eastern, Djinni-looking outfit. Another looks very anglo-saxon, with a plaid outfit similar to that discribed for Oeridians. There's a blond guy who looks pretty similar to the Oerid guy, but who is dressed the way they discribe Suel clothing, and finally there is a big native American looking guy, with face paint, furs, etc. Which one is he supposed to be?
I always considered the Flan based on the Hamitic/ Semitic peoples (like the Phoenicians, Arabs, Hebrews, Elamites; as well as the Basques and others who inhabited Europe and the Mediterranean before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans. The Oeridians I imagined as the equivalent of the Gallic, Latin, Greek, and Thracian peoples. I always thought of the Suel as being patterned after the Germanic/ Scandinavian peoples, and the Baklunish as being a mixture of Indo-European (Scythian, Avar, Alan, Sarmatian, Medo-Persian, Slavic), Central Asian (Turk, Hun, Kipchak, etc.) and the Flan mentioned above.
The Tenhas I likened to the Basques and the Rovers to the Slavs.
I think we need to look at cultures by region, not strictly by racial heritage. While I prefer the Celtic feel (as presented by the Geoff LG team) overall -- I think it fits well with nature deities like Beory and Obad-Hai -- the Flan of Geoff, and most of the Flanaess, have intermingled with the Oeridians and the Suel to such a degree that they've almost become a unique culture. I ascribe the Celtic feel to these types of Flan.
On the other hand, I prefer a more Babylonian/Hebrew feel for the Tenha. Since they have existed in isolation for such a long time, they would be insulated from the more "European" flavor of the other cultures. The only example of a Tenha name that Gary gave us was Duke Ehyeh, which doesn't sound at all European to me. (Maybe I'm showing too much favor to Sargent's Ur-Flannae, though. )
The Rovers I see as related to the Tenha, but mixed with nomadic Baklunish culture as well. I think their names would be an odd blend of Semitic and Native American traditions. We have two examples of Rovers' names from Gary's pen -- Kishwa Dogteeth, and Chada-Three-Lances.
I guess the main reason that I've always thought the Flan where some sort of Native American / druidic group was how they were presented in the origonal 1983 WoG books. Along with the discription of the various races their was a picture of some people standing around in some sort of town square. In the square where four humans, and some demi-humans.
Of the humans, one is a clearly a Baklunish woman, dressed in a very middle-eastern, Djinni-looking outfit. Another looks very anglo-saxon, with a plaid outfit similar to that discribed for Oeridians.
Both of these I think are Oeridians. The text accompanying the picture states that those of the Eastern tribes (Nyrond, Great Kingdom, Urnst states) prefer plaids while those of the Western tribes (Furyondy, Veluna, etc.) pefer checks (as the woman has incorporated into her dress).
Quote:
There's a blond guy who looks pretty similar to the Oerid guy, but who is dressed the way they discribe Suel clothing, and finally there is a big native American looking guy, with face paint, furs, etc. Which one is he supposed to be?
The last one is a Rover, as the accompanying text describes this group of Flan tribes as favoring loincloths, leggins, vests and body paint. And the Rovers are mentioned as one of, but not the only, major tribal groups of Flan, much the way that Oeridians prefer different patterns to their dress depending on geographic origin.
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